seems like people dont post much pics on here ..... I've been looking and looking and cant seem to find a pic of a resistor soldered to the white/purple wire or the black wire on a vats.

But what I really want to know is................If you know the Resistance # why wouldn't you just go and have a key made with that type of resistance on a key ??

I've been trying to figure mine out why the previous owner did this and that and I found a homemade type of wire that connects to the purple/white wire and the black wire, I opened the black piece up and found it has a resistor in there, SO if I read that with my OHM meter and get the number cant I go to and have a key made with that type of resistance ?? I ask this because I have problems starting my car every now and then. Sometimes I have to wait 20 - 30 mins trying my key every so often. I have that Brass looking key with NO VATS. So somewhere down the line the ignition was changed.

heres a pic of my by passed vats .. I had previously posted it about a week or 2 ago. But still have problems so I hope I asked correctly.

 

i did it so my remote start would work. also in your case a resistor is cheaper than a key. for some reason people think the only place u can get vats keys cut is at the dealership, they dont realize that any semi-reputable locksmith sells the same key for a fraction of the price.

 

hey Jeff thanks for the reply. Yeah I want to get the Vats key again. We have a local "Johnnys true Value" hardware store that sells them for around 18 bucks, and thats cut too.

I still want to see what a soldered resistor looks like on a vats. Im gonna keep searching here .. if not Im gonna Google.

 

alot of guys will just use a soldered resistor becuase the contacts in the ignition wear out. even a new key will give them problems. soldering makes this a much more reliable connection.

what would be cool would be to put a connector on the resistor, this way, you can unplug it when you leave the vehicle, just like the key did.

 

 

I used to do this conversion on a lot of VATS cars for remote start. The resistor may not be close enough in resistance for the computer (VATS) to "See" it as the correct resistance.. Or the connection is bad somewhere. I used to put a relay on these conversions (At the customers option.) so that VATS is only bypassed during remote start, allowing the "chip" in the key to still serve its purpose whenever remote start is not being used.....

 

thats what i did. I didnt do it to maintain the security , i did it that way incase the resistor broke..which they do...so i wouldnt be stranded somewhere trying to reconnect wires under my dash.

I honestly think that vats is pointless because i have a tool, cant remember name but picked it up off the matco truck for 120ish, that has two leads and it applys a variable resitance as u adjust the **** then it gives u a readout of what resistance was applied. including under dash disassembly the process took under 45 seconds to start my car with a non vats key.

 

I added a resistor to my 1991 3.1 for my remote start years ago. Since then I broke the remote my current problem is the bird wont start. key in the on position full voltage on dash, and it wont click or crank or anything. I hit the selenoid contacts with a screwdriver and it cranks but won't fire.

I am thinking that my key cylinder finally went bad. If i had my old remote I'd be curious if it would start by remote that would convince me the key cylinder is bad.


Pontiac (lol) wants $78 for cylinder and $22 per key I have like 4 spare keys now (g/f, parents, 1 for wallet, hey i am bad w/ keys)

My question is: 1) could this be a bad key cylinder
2) is there a way to use the resistor I have in there now and a basic gm key cylinder (like found on my 95 chevy van-looks the same!)
3) the way the rem start was you still needed key to unlock the column, I am unsure how far the VATS thing goes, if the resistor is acceptable

Sorry it's long, very frustrating problem been dealing with this bird not starting off an on for years, help is much appreciated!!!

 

^^^^ Joey, I have that exact same problem as you but I have no remote start.

I think I finally have this vats thing figured out as far as resistors and such. If it had a remote start "like yours" then the white/purple wire and the black wire like the pic I posted above would have some sort of resistor attached to it. Mine has some homemade looking Loop with a resistor at the end.

So does this mean that you connected that white/purple and the black wire back into the 2 white wires with the orange sleeve around it?? those white wires are the ones that read the ohms on the chip.

BUT every now and then I get the "DEAD" / "NO START" .. not a crank , not a nothing. WAs wondering if my ignition is going bad aswell.

 

that sound about right to me Fullmetaljoey. It depends on how it is wired. If the resistor is burned out or otherwise damaged, it might not work at all. You could put a non-VATS keyswitch in and use it that way.

 

Does anyone know what the resistance is on the resistor I should by at radio shack to splice into the white wires as shown in this attached illustration ?
http://shbox.com/1/vats_bypass.jpg

 

youll have to ohm out the chip in your key to see how much resistance you have in the ignition key to know how much resistance you need.

 

I have the key measured at 11.7 ohms. So what should I look for at Radio Shack ?

 

 

tell the guy what u need, if they look at u and shrug ur best bet is buying a pack with a variety and it should come with instructions on how to get the resistance u need. its not an exact science but the rule of thumb is keep it within 10%

 

Will do, thanks.

 

Resistors in series: R=r1+r2......

IN parallel:

1/R=1/(R1)+1/(R2).......

You should be able to get any resistance value you want with those equations.

 

So I soldered on my resistor, still...nothing. No crank , nothing. Did I do this the right way ? The resistor is 10k-Ohm. The resistance on the key pellet is 11.7. Is this tolerable ?

 

???

 

Those are the equations for combining resistors.

 

So right now I have a 10K-Ohm resistor installed. If I were to buy a 2k-Ohm resistor and wire it in series with the 10, thus giving me a value of 12k-Ohms, it should get me within my targeted range of 11.7 Ohms as read on my key pellet, correct ?

 

Ya that works.

 

Will find out tomorrow when radio shack opens. Hopefully it will start already for crying out loud.

 

did you check the codes to see if you are actually getting a vats error? If not, something else is going on as well.

 

Only have a Code 53. I wired in series a 10 Ohm and a 2.2 Ohm resistor together and still no start , crank, nothing. I am pretty much just gonna count my losses and ditch this piece of junk !! Such a shame to, its in very good condition, but just won't start !

 

are you sure it's a 11.7 OHM and not 11.7Kohm?? 11.7 ohms sounds low, but it's been awhile since Ive seen the vats resistor table. it's listed here on thirdgen somewhere.

does the car crank over? if it does, you could techinally burn a new chip that doesn't require vats. if it doesn't turn over however, there is a relay you'd have to jump to get the starter circuit to work in addition.

you are close though, don't throw the car away, or if you do, let me know where you ditch it, hahahah......

 

The car does not crank over. The resistor on the key pellet is at 11.7k Ohms.
I am not kidding either, I have WASTED TOO much time and effort on this problem with literally NO RESULTS what so ever. When I ditch it, everyone will know... just look for the thick black smoke streaming into the air.

 

Aw man, thats not what we like to hear! Yolu can fix it, it just takes time.

 

just get a new chip burned, and jumper out the vats starter relay.

or, you can try and get a resistor that is the actual value you need. if you used a 10 ohm and a 2.2ohm, that is not cutting it. if you used a 10 k and a 2.2k ohm resistor, that is not cutting it either.

you need a 10k ohm and and a 1.6 or 1.8k ohm resistor in series, and it should work.

you have to do it right or obviously it won't work. 12k isn't close enough, I don't think, I should have picked up on that earlier, sorry.....

let me ask you another question. does the key have a resistor in it already? if it does, did you cut the white wires to solder in the resistors, or did you just strip and solder them in without cutting the wires from the lock cylinder? if so, it's possible that you still have the wrong value, becuase the key and resistors would then be in parallel. you have to have either the key or the resistors, not both.

hang in there, you are very close, we can get you through this. I'm say you might want to try jumpering out the relay to make sure the engine will crank OK, too, but answer these questions first, and try to get the resistor closer in value.

 

My key still has a resistor in it, its the only one I have. As shown in my pictures above, I cut the two white wires and soldered in my resistor, making the key resistor obsolete, and have added and changed methods of resistors since. Also, where is this relay that everyone is speaking of ? Is there a picture of it , or at least a color code of wires that lead to it ? And how do I jump it ?

 

http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#pass_key

 

if you follow the white and purple wires up under the dash, there is some kind of box or something up in there, that has either a relay socket built in, or it's got a relay wired off of it. It's been awhile since I looked uder there, I can probably check that out tongiht and let you know more about it, but the relay should have 4 wires running to it.

the starter solenoid circuit on a GM car is usually a heavy purple wire, sometimes switching to yellow, again, a heavy wire, like 12 or 10 gauge. if you find the relay, i think it has those wire colors, you can pull the relay and stick a jumper wire in the socket where those two wire are, effectively shorting out the relay.

I'll have to do some searching here, you should too, to see if you can find that circuit, or any pictures of it.

I just saw your pictures, sorry, I had you initially confused with the original poster and thought they were his. you did a nice job with the resistor wiring.

here is a link i found with about 1 minute of searching, very great information yet again by trickster.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...picture+module

what is the history of the car, has the harness and dash been hacked? if so, you might want to find the vats module, and trace out the signal wire that runs to the ecm, it's possible that someone cut it or something.

if you get absolutely no crank, it's sounds to me like maybe the module is bad, or if it needs power and ground(i think it does), one of them isn't connected or intermittent.

i know it's a pain, but try a closer value resistor, you might have a unit that can't tolerate a high resistor value for whatever reason.

 

I can't seem to find my starter enable relay ? I looked everywhere it should be, but its not there ?

 

were you able to find the vats module, ie, where to the purple and white wire go? if you did, you should be able to follow the wires out of that to a relay somewhere.....

short of that, I don't know what to say. did you check that link i posted? it's supposed to be tucked up buried behind the kick panel, i think, so you might have to dissassemble some stuff to get to it.

 

My resistor is wired differently then the above pics show. The plug going to the key cylinder on my car is still together and I only cut one of the two wires.

Basicly, I aligator clipped one end of the resister to the cut wire that goes to the VATs box and clipped the other end to the uncut wire that has a little notch out of the in the insulation .

I hope that makes any sense

 

Here is a quick chop of what I'm talking about

This is what you did





And this is what I did



I don't know if it matters that much but it worked for me

 

the start enable relay is located behind the kick panel on the drivers side under the hood release cable. it will have 4 wires. dark green, light green and two yellow wires.

 

Found the Starter enable relay ! I will test it accordingly . Does anyone know if these three connectors are supposed to be connected to anything ?

 

I once heard of someone stealing cars by using potentiometers wired in series-es and parallels-es inside a radioshack project box using piercing alligator clips. Could something like this be used to determine the unknown variable of the VATS resistor, by duplicating the resistance, and then reading it on a DVOM???

I was hoping to find the right topic to post this in. I hope Im not jacking the OP's thread in any way...

Scott AKA YL

 

yes, technically you could do this. If you try and start the vehicle with the wrong resistance, the ecm will shut itself down for a longish period of time, like 5 minutes or something. so the goal is to deter thieves long enough that they don't keep trying it.

 

i have a 91 5-speed and the connector in your pic with the tan\white and purple wire is for my clutch safety switch. the purple wire send power to the starter. as for the other 2...... i have no idea

 

Is that tan/white and purple wired connector supposed to be connected to anything ?

 

Here is an update on what I have done. Located the VATS module and the Start Enable Relay. Removed the resistor and soldered the two white wires from the ignition back together. Resistance from the key pellet is being shown at the connector under the steering column as well as at the VATS connector. No fuel is being sent to the throttle body, fuel pump is going ON, no turn over or crank. I jumped a wire from the start enable relay to a purple wire which leads to the starter solenoid and the car turns over ! But other than that, not to much progress. I feel I am close which is why I haven't completely given up as of yet.

 

keeep it up man dont give up youll figure it out

 

well, if the engine can crank over by jumping around the relay, it sounds to me like the vats module is screwed up, and since you are possibly not getting the correct signal to the ecm, it won't fire the injectors.

I just had a thought. do you know for sure the key you have has the right resistance? that could be the whole problem if the key blank was wrong to begin with.

your best option at this point is to burn a chip with VATS turned off you can make sure everything else works. once you get the engine and car in a good running state, you can revisit this unless you feel the security is a major must-have.

 

The key is an original and worked, car ran and everything not to long ago... but every now and then would not start or crank. Now, nothing at all. Security light DOES NOT stay on, as it would if incorrect resistance was being shown at VATS. Getting closer, but no cigar

 

yeah, I'd say the module went bad......

I'd burn a chip without vats and get the car running again.....

 

Alright !! problem solved !! After extensive troubleshooting and testing all components and modules, the CAR STARTS !! The problem resided in the safety neutral switch. I followed the tan/white wire from the start enable relay to the safety neutral switch, I then made sure the switch was securely connected, first attempt nothing, second attempt I wiggled the connector for the safety neutral switch around a bit and then tried to start and the motor turned over for a brief second , I then securely held in the connector and VROOOOM !!! SUCCESS !!! Thanks to all , and a very special thanks to CAMARORIDER for all of your PM's and research into this matter

I now have another problem but I'm sure it is minor compared to what I just went through. While attempting to start the car again after a long warm up period, a weird soft noise came from the distributor area followed by a small amount of smoke that came and went and now it won't start again. Probably the ignition module under the cap, I'll check that out tomorrow when there's more light, but also, the start enable relay does not click anymore when attempting to start, is that normal ?

 

Hey guys, lots of useful tips I've been reading them as they go. I shhould have mentioned, when mine was at its worst acting up I did check neutral safety switch. and sometimes if you moved shifter in an out of gear or slammed it into park it would start-lol. It's been fine for like 2-3 months now. NO IDEA why but hasn't "not started" for that long, it's been this way for years it'll go months with no problem and then act up and do it all the time for a few weeks.... I am kind of thinking I should replace neut. safety switch and swap out that resistor just to be safe. Never got to try new ignition cause she's acted fine.... I also had a new computer put in not long ago but NEVER knew there was a VATS unit if it's actually seperate from the ECM....

what do you guys think?

No one likes to leave a bar late at night with a hot chick and have their car not start specially classics lol gives us a bad name......

 

You indicated that you have measured 11.7 ohms and also stated you picked up a 10k resistor which is 10,000 ohms and added 2k which is 2,000 ohms. You need to start with 10 ohms and series 2 ohms to make your 12 ohms. Close enough to your 11.7.