wassup again all!!! the silver 1985 iroc i bought died and wont start. it ran for a month and now nothing. the person before the guy i bought it from made a homemade kill switch and i dont know what they bypassed. there is a big switch by the fuse box with 2 big red wires going straight to the starter. there is a cut yellow wire in the harness at the base of the steering column, 2 big pink or red with electrical tape that appear to be spliced at one point and one black wire cut with no connection. the cut yellow wire is not connected either. im going to go over both manuals i have and the factory manual to see if i can get it fixed so i can drive it again.

 

here is a pic of starter with nothing connected but those 2 red wires connected to a homemade switch.
fyi, i changed the alt but nothing, im think ing starter is burnt from continually being started the wrong way

 

pic of switch and 2 red wires.

 

pic of 2 pink wires that look taped...

 

and finally, the cut yellow and black just hanging...

 

im sure once i get the wiring figured out and maybe change starter with the one from my ohter 85' im sure it will start.
another fyi, nothing works but th e radio, the gauges go up and down and fuel gauge stays on full even without the key in... not sure if that will help but i dont want to leave out any extra info.
thanks again

 

i hate it when people wire those starters the wrong way

 

that big yellow wire goes to a splice ,, it comes out one end to the starter relay, and the other to a difrent terminal on the same relay

the two big red ones comming from the ign , go to a splice and to fusable link under the hood to the celenoid and then to the alternator

 

the best thing to do is try to put the wires back together the way they are supposed to be , if you can , might take some

 

the way its hooked up i would think without a fuseable link , its probebly smokin the celenoid

 

what do you mean by nothin works but the radio. do the lights work? or the heater controls etc.

 

if the some gauges go up then down it means there is no power or no connection to the sencors. some gauges , like the oil pressure gauge and fuel go all the way up and stay there if there is no power or connection

 

the pink one commin out of the ignition goes to the turn B/U fuse, the injecror fuse, to the coil or electronic spark, the pink wire comes out of the ignition and splices with all of these

 

should also have a purple wire to the celenoid. most of the electronics run off those two red wires at the ignition, so i would try to wire everything back the way it was, it you have vats ,, you can simply bypass this by grounding out the vats wire comin out of the starter relay , this is what a lot of people dont realize when they have a problem with the vats, so they go and cut stuff out and put in push button start. then if they dont do it right with a fuseable link, stuff gets messed up

 

thanks for the replies, im hitting this thing early, its 8 06 am now, gotta get this car moving again. anymore tips would be appreciated.

 

the starter has 2 connections, which one is for the motor and which for the solenoid?
btw, dont see any fusable links, does any auto parts sell em? ex, autozone, pepboys , sears??

 

i think the starter is fried but being continually started this way, and my drive way is rock so i dont know if i can jack the car up if i have to change it. maybe ill roll it into the streeet...

 

after 2 hrs of investigating im still stumped. checked up under steering column, etc an d everything looks clean. no real hack job... i did come across a few cut wires tho and a missing fuse from the fuse box for the 'ign' slot. and i cant find the solenoid relay/switch. from the looks of it, i think the person just cut the 2 wires from the solenoid and ran them to a big house siwtch.

 

heres a pic of the 2 cut wires..

 

one is a yellow wire coming from harness and the other is a single black pigtail wire thats clipped up under the dash.
also, one single white wire just hanging ...

 

the large pink, yellow and orange wires dont appear to splcied just cut and reconnected with electrical tape.
so, i need to know where the relay is, what wires to connect to it and should these cuts wires be connected, if so , to where???
thanks again, sorry to be pita but i gotta get the car running again...

 

OK - here's the simple of it...

Yellow wire from ignition switch to starter enable relay - should be 12v+ when key is turned. Starter enable relay should have yellow in & a ground (these two activate the relay), a battery power in (nice guage wire, maybe from the fuse block?), and a dark green out that's also nice guage. Darkk green goes to neutral safety switch, where a purple wire comes out (purple wire also nice size) and runs through the firewall connector to the starter solenoid.

What happens:

Turn key - ignition switch (low in column, not the actual key switch) sends 12v+ through yellow wire to starter enable relay, which activates and sends 12v+ from battery through the dark green wire to neutral safety switch - if in park or neutral the 12v+ is redirected through purple wire to starter solenoid.

Starter enable relay under driver kick panel under the black goo where the hood release is - but yours has been hacked, so it could be hanging up in there anywhere - new starter enable relay $10 at NAPA.

Neutral safety switch in center console - $30 at NAPA.

Two bolts on starter, one larger one - this is where all the fusible links connect to - well not all of them, the ones for the starting/charging system. Smaller bolt on starter is where the purple wire connects.

You can test the starter in the car by applying 12v+ to the larger bolt (use nice thick wire), and then apply 12v+ to the smaller stud where purple wire should go - just touch this bolt with 12v+ and starter should spin.

Folks never realize that even when key is off, applying 12v to the smaller starter bolt will spin the starter, and with key on, the car will start and run when this is done - thus bypasing relays and neutral safety switches in an emergency is easy WITHOUT hacking the wiring - but they all spend the day hacking up the wiring instead of fixing the issue - as in your case.

You have no VATS, so no worry there. The VATS module just turns on the ground for the starter enable relay when it gets the right key pellet. Cars without VATS always have a ground for the relay.

Here's wiring diagrams for just about every 3rd gen:

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=19

Good Luck!

 

ok, thanks, im gonna try that after lunch. but i cannot find any relays near kick panel or at base of column where the million wires are. and how do i get to the ign swtich in column? also, i dont see any of these wires leaving from under dash... how would they normal ly get to starter? should i go buy wire and run them myself? can i add a relay also and mount it somewhere?
thanks alot!!

 

Everything runs through the bulkhead connector in the firewall driver side.

Since yours has been hacked so badly, there's no telling what's left and whats gone - but it's probably a safe assumption that the PO was too lazy to actually remove terminals and wiring from the bulkhead connector - probably just cut and spliced into what was there.

Might be easier to cut everything off a junker at the boneyard - or grab a harness in tact from the junker and just replace the harness - but you'll have to determine that.

Sounds like a real mess - I wish you the best of luck!

 

do you know what pins on the bulk head to use and the relay thats supposed to be there, is it small, large, etc.. what color? can i go buy any relay and wire it in?

 

i checked my other 85' and i only see a power window motor relay near kick panel. i also see a smaller type relay connected near the base of column where all the conectors are, could that be what im missing?? i think it has a pink and yellow going in and out of it...

 

the starter relay is supposed to be behind the driver side kick panel, also behind a bunch of black sticky gooey stuff. youll have to pull that all off to see the relay.

 

considering how messed up your wiring is , i would get an inline fuse , and a push button start switch, what i used for mine was the old fuel pump inline fuse that was bolted to the fender on the pass. side under the hood. ( since i am not using the electric pump anymore this made a good peice to have) it has nice thick wires and u can use a 40 amp fuse. i tried finding an inline fuse at the parts store , but they are hard to find with a 10 or 12 gauge wire, ( i dont know why) go to the junk yard and find one, make sure to cut the wires as long as you can. then you can run the wire from the hot term on the battery to the switch and the other wire from the switch to the inline fuse and then to the small start terminal ( where the purple wire goes) on the celenoid. or you can run the fuse from the battery to the switch . ill send pics of mine

 

checked everywhere, nothing... ill go biuy one. wire harness looks great just that relay is cut out

 

kool, thnx, ill do the relay-fuse method

 

inline fuse ^ the case its in ^ push button ^
(to the right of the choke)

 

I didn't look before to confirm or deny - I just provided the link. I looked this time at the wiring diagram for a 1985 carb 5.0L - there doesn't appear to be a starter enable relay in the wiring diagram - so I guess there won't be one. Looks like yellow goes from ignition switch to neutral switch in console, and then when in park purple wire gets 12v that runs straight to starter solenoid.

So ...

1) did you ever test the starter by applying 12v to it to see if it runs? Test it first make sure it works before you go trying to wire it to work

2) Make sure you are getting 12v on a orange/black wire running to the neutral switch - should have 12v as long as the key is on

3) Make sure there is 12v running out of the neutral safety switch on the purple wire (at the switch) when the key is turned to start.

4) Make sure the purple has 12v at the starter solenoid when the key is turned to start.

5) Make sure there is a heavy black wire off the pos battery terminal directly to the starter solenoid

6) Make sure there is a good fusible link that runs from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch

I have no idea what the rest of the stuff is that the PO installed - maybe he was having an issue and spliced in a relay into the system for some reason.

Maybe he thought he was installing a kill switch as an anti-theft device - is there a toggle or switch somewhere that you haven't figured out yet? He could have installed a relay and a hidden switch to activate the relay, thus the starter circuit would be interupted until the switch was on and activated the relay.

If it were me, I'd go by the wiring diagram I linked above, and take everything back to stock, get it starting again, and keep an eye on it in case there was some issue that the PO solved with bad wiring.

 

ok, thnx
ill try all your suggestions...
how do i get to ign switch? theres a skinny yellow wire and a more beefier one.... i see the purple one, its thicker...

 

ane else have this problem? is it common for ppl to bypass this?
the reason i ask is because the homade switch dude had only worked when the key was in turned one or two clicks...?? weird huh...

 

its raining now so i will go hard on this when the pouring stops!!!

 

hey camaroweb, is that schematic for tpi's also??

 

for measurements should i use a dvm or test light?? some manuals say not to use a powered meter, not sure...

 

well, well, well.... finally got the car pushed into the garage... got it jacked up and dropped the exhaust to reach starter, pita!!! after two days of work, got the starter out and ready to swap with my other 85 im restoring.... well, it doestn fit!!! the one starter has 2 holes that line up, the other has two holes taht are offset... so after all this, a lite came on over my head. the guy i bought my blue iroc from years ago had 88' 350 put in it.... well i had no idea that the starters were different. so i have to have silver one rebuilt this weekend so i can continue troubleshooting....
btw, i checked all wiring and no hack, still dont know how the guy bypassed the way u owuld normally start the car (put key in and turn..) only thing i see missing is poss the ign fuse under the column in that fuse box.... just that snipped small yellow that i cant trace out and poss solenoid relay... ill post pics tomorrow.. thnx again all...

 

me again folks and i still cant get my car to start! im running outta options... either im going to have to pay a shop hundreds or thousands to fix or sell it and take a loss... i ve tried everything...

 

sorry for the long posts:
heres what ive done so far:
bought a new starter and installed it, when i manually put 12v on solenoid nothing happens. i have the large battery cable connected with 2 otther wires that share the same connection. they come out of small metal tube/housing that goes behind the engine somewhere via a shroud. im assuming to a fusable link or some other connection. the starter is grounded. i took a meter and measure 12v only on batter connector at starter, the other connection never has voltage until i hook it large post on solenoid and the small post never has 12v even when battery is connected and key turned on...

 

i took some measurements like the previous guys suggested.
first of all, where is the neutral safety switch and ignition switch???
at this connector on shifter, heres the voltage i got with key turned on:
blk = ov
orange = 2v
blue = 6v
green = 0v
purple = ov
yellow = ov

 

i also hooked up everything like prev owner had it and still nothing, i do get a little chatter from this relay/box on firewall on drivers side under hood.

 

like i said earlier, sorry for the long posts. here are a few other things i checked: the fuse box near kick panel is missing an ign fuse, should i have one? doesnt look like it takes a standard fuse??? where are the fusable links?? shouldnt starter still turn over when i hook 12v directly to it?? what else can i check once i find ign switch and neutral switch?? and what are these connectors under column?? i get 6v from the pink/yellow when key is on...

 

so there ya have it, im clueless now.... dont understand how something so simple can be this difficult! dont know what would cause nothing to work, i mean i drove the car for 2 months before started got fried.
could i be missing something else? hhidden relay, open link, def ecm.
im gonna take the dash off and try and trouble shoot whole harness voltage wise... dont know to get to those 2 wires connectged to solenoid that go back into firewall somewhere....
oh, i cant find orange/black wire that camaronewbie said to check for 12v...
im starting to think this refurb started i bought is bad also??? ill take it to get tested before i ripped into wiring, thnx all, i need help bad!!!

 

OK - starter... There should be several wires that run to the larger connector on the starter, + batt cable, and a few others that have fusible links - they should all be on the larger terminal. Then there's a smaller terminal - purple wire ONLY goes there. Starter does NOT get a ground wire anywhere - it's grounded when connected to the block. Starter has to be shimmed, following directions with the starter.

Regardless of any other connection anywhere else, the starter will start when you put 12v+ to that connector that purple wire goes to - use a 10guage wire to test this. If you have the pos batt wire to the large connector, and apply 12v+ to the smaller one, and it's connected to the block, it will run (assuming the battery is not dead). So, make sure starter works using this first.

I saw in one of the pics above - a large yellow wire under the dash that has tape on it - looks like the large yellow wire that runs to the neutral safety switch - check it out, why has it been taped? This wire comes from your ignition switch - nice large yellow wire - it should have 12v on it WHEN KEY IS TURNED. I see several boogered taped wires in that pic - get those fixed.

NSS - you have it pic'd above - in the center console. Only thing you are concerned with right now is the large yellow and large purple wires. When you turn key, should get 12v+ going into the NSS on the large yellow, and when car is in Park should get 12v+ coming out WHEN KEY IS TURNED.

That purple wire on the NSS goes to starter as mentioned above - make sure it has 12v+ on it at the starter end WHEN KEY IS TURNED. If the purple wire has 12v at the NSS, but not at the starter end, then there's is a cut in it somewhere.

So - the order ... You turn the key, the ignition switch sends 12v+ on the large yellow wire to the NSS (if it doesn't then the ignition switch is bad), when the NSS is in Park, then it sends that 12v+ out to the starter (if it doesn't, then NSS is bad), purple wire goes through firewall to starter, if there's no 12v+ on purple wire at starter but it's there at NSS, then purple wire is bad.

When I say ignition switch, I'm NOT talking about the key cylinder, I'm talking about the electrical switch - it's on the steering column underside about halfway up from floor - the large yellow wire comes out of it. Maybe switch is good, but it's not getting 12v+ into it - should be a wire in to it from the fuse panel, I would guess red or orange but I'm not sure.

 

thnx again!!! imma grab a burger and hit the garage! told the family dont bother while grilling, im not cooming out til my car is running! even if it takes me 2 month!!! i will prevail and fire er' up !!!!

 

almost forgot, the new starter i got has an extra post, one reads 'r' and other reads 's'. both are the smaller post. i will try and connect both and i also bought a relay , button and wire to see if it will start manually

 

finally!!! thanks for the great advice!!! i got the car to turn over for a brief moment... the new starter i bought has an extra post. one says 'r' and the other 's'.
the 's' is starter and the 'r' is for relay , i didnt notice it until i took it back a fourth time.
since 85' didnt have a relay i didnt need to use that side, my error in hooking up the wrong smaller post , it was a 50/50 chance.
once i put 12v on the 's' post it started to spin but i didnt continue to crank it because its in my garage with the exhaust offf. so illl let yall know tomoorw if it runs...
thanks again! now i m gonna retrace the purple and ign wires an d fusables... ill keep yall posted first thing in the morning...

 

i bought a relay so im gonna hook it up for safty...