I have been learking for the last 5 years and found a lot of good stuff on these forms that's really helped out but now I have to ask something.

I have a 91* firebird(the body is a 91 but the ECM is new. The manufactoure date is 95. It has that resistor in the key) and it has started this problem of not wanting to crank. When it does it is hit and miss. But at around 2pm a few times a week it won't crank when I turn the key and if I sit there and keep trying in 30min to and hour it will crankover and start rightup.

I have wanted to put in a push button for the started and just do away with the key alltogether. But since I have that resistor key I don't know if I can just run a wire from the battery to the starter to force it to start.

What do you all think?

 

The VATS controls both the starter enable relay, as well as sends a pulse wave (either 30Hz or 50Hz) to the ECM to tell it to fire the injectors. So simply making a starting circuit will not do the trick. You have to also get that pulse wave signal to the ECM.

I would highly recommend you read up on VATS, and then install a VATS bypass module that will come with instyructions on wiring it so that the VATS is bypassed and the starter enable relay is functional as well as getting the signal sent to the ECM. They are available from Painless wiring as well as Ebay and several other sources.

 

VATS? Ok thankyou. Does any one know a good resource to read just what a vats is and it does, like when does it send this wave signal? When it thinks the engine should be running? What tells the vats the injecters need to be fired? Could you emulate what a vats does with a simple 555timer or does it need to out put a sine wave?

 

95 ecm? or a re-manufactured stock one? You cant just put in a push button. the VATS module still needs that resistance. look up how to bypass vats with a resistor wired in under the dash.

 

i dont know which ecm it is. i just know last year when i lost the keys and replaced the ignition switch the dealership told me that the vin# i had shouldnt have one of those resister keys.

i have been reading up on on how to just add a resister and about making a bypass http://home.hiwaay.net/~davida1/passkey.htm

the think i am not seeming to find is the pin out for the ecm or how to tell if you need the 30 or 50hz unit.

could some one point me to a diagram of the ecm so i would tap in to the keypass wire and input a signal? i'm not finding one that has the pin-outs with wire colour codes

 

90% of "dealership" folks couldn't find their way home. VATS was installed in these cars from 1989 to at least 1997 that I know of, and probably through to the 2002 cars.

 

VATS was installed in all thirdgens starting in 89. That link you posted is for defeating the PASSkey system, which is a different system altogether. Search the electronics forum here for details but here it is in a nutshell:

1 - measure the resistance of the chip in your key with a good digital multimeter

2 - go online or to the local Radio Shack and buy a couple resistors of the same value. Make sure you get a few as manufacturing tolerances can be pretty loose and some of the 'correct' ones may not work

3 - splice that resistor into the VATS signal wires under your dash that run up inside the steering column. Check out www.austinthirdgen.org for the wiring diagrams and wire colors

Once you have that done you should have no problem wiring in a starter button. You can use the wiring diagrams on the site I listed above to find your starter wires under the dash.

 

ok thats for the pointer guys.

as it turned out my problem had nothing to do with the VATS. the "Neutral Safety Switch" was faulty so when it was getting hot (as in the weather being over 100) it wasnt letting me start the car.

but from i did to find out what the problem was, i made something im finding really neet. its a sATA key.

i'll explain...

i didnt want to do away with the anti theft because i wanted to do away with the ignition key. so i wanted to to hookup a USB-A female to the VATS and solder in the resistors on a male USB. it would kinda look like a thumb drive. but fry's didnt have a male USB-A to solder connector so i used a internal sATA connector since a sATA cable is cheaper making me not feel as bad cutting it up to make something else.

if any one would like pic of what i did i can upload some if not i wont wast the forums bandwidth.

ok now on you what i still have to get done...

i have been doing a lot of searching and i havent found anything solid so, i want to know how many apms go through the ignition lock switch?

some ppl are saying you need to use a relay and others say you dont need to. no one ever states how many amps you need to handle on which wire.

here is what i've come to...

there is a wire for the ratio(brown),one that gos to HVAC(orange), one that does most everything(pink), and the started solenoid(yellow)

i want to have 3 switches and this is how i am thinking about doing it. brown and orange will be combined and go to switch 1. pink will go to switch 2, yellow will go to a push button.

i dont have a radio or a/c so i dont think switch 1 will need a relay. switch 2 seems like it will need one but i dont know if i need a 40amp or a 70amp relay. as for the starter, it seems like i remember being told that it draws less then 30 amps but i cant find any ways that says if that is true or not. i know the fuse for "crank" is only a 3amp fuse but if i looked at the diagram right its going to draw more then that.

i thought to look to see what the ignition lock switch was rated at but i cant seem to find that spec any where.

any help?

 

I would put a relay on each, just to be safe. Definitely need one on the pink and the yellow. I used a 60A relay on my pushbutton starter.

The ignition lock switch, if you're referring to what I think you are, draws no electrical power at all. Its a mechanical switch that uses a sliding pin to lock/unlock the column.

The crank fuse is so small because the main power to turn the starter over is provided directly from the battery to the starter. The ignition switch only provides power to the starter solenoid.