'91 Camaro Z28 with a 5.7L, 700R4, and VATS

The car drove fine until I lost the keys in July. Didn't realize how big of a mistake that was. I replaced the ignition with one from Advance (lifetime warranty, not AC Delco), and I'm trying to use the new blank with no resistor pellet. My old cylinder only said "9109" and "B10" on it.

I cut the white wires in the orange sheath to remove my old cylinder. I ordered a pack of VATS resistors from Amazon, and I verified that they are all within 2% tolerance of the 15 assigned values. I've placed each one in the plug where the white wires meet the purple/black and white/black wires. I waited at least four minutes between each test.

The car never cranked, and I never heard the fuel pump (I don't know how loud it is on these, but I can hear my Jeep's from the driver seat). The security light comes on when I turn the key, and it goes off when I turn the ignition back to off.

I assume it must be VATS related since everything worked when I parked it. Does anyone have input?

 

You have other problems if the pump is not running.
The ECM turns the pump on , key on ; has nothing to do with VATS which takes out the starter and the fuel injectors

I suggest you 1st check / bypass the starter enable relay operated by VATS and check the NSS or clutch switch that prevents starter operation.

A quick test is to run a wire to the starter solenoid and key on , touch the wire to the batt Pos terminal. (bypasses the whole starter circuit )
If you have the correct resistor in place the engine will start.
If it doesn't start you still have a resistor / VATS problem

 

First, thanks for replying. I've just been getting more and more frustrated with this thing.

I wasn't sure if the fuel pump should be loud enough to be heard from the driver seat with the door open, but I definitely don't hear it. Is there something in the column that would cause this problem if it was reassembled wrong? That was my first time pulling a steering wheel.

The radio comes on when I turn the key to ACC, but everything goes blank and silent when I try to turn it over. I grounded out the starter relay yesterday, but I haven't yet tested anything after that. Is there a way to confirm that it's grounded? I put a ring terminal on the black/yellow wire and sanded off the paint behind the center kick panel screw. The screw has continuity to other grounds in the car, so I know that's good, but how can I confirm that the ring terminal itself is grounded?

As for wiring the starter solenoid to battery, I'll try. There isn't much room to work under the car when it's on flat pavement, and my jack and stands are in another city holding up my old Jeep while I part it out.

 

Bypass the starter enable relay completely

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...501-post5.html

Grounding it permanently as you have done makes it completely redundant as a security device
and it still leaves the old relay as a fail point on the starter circuit if it does not work

 

Future reference to ANYONE reading this thread. If you have a VATS key with a pellet get a multi tester and find out what the pellet resistance is and write it down!
Then if you’re having VATS trouble install a new starter enable relay and do a VATS key by pass. Sorry that’s not much help to the OP.

I bought my car with a gutted column and replaced that and installed a new VATS module with a new pellet key. The New VATS module will read the new keys resistance once and lock that in as the new resistance necessary to start the car. I ended up replacing the starter enable relay with a new one and did a VATS key pellet by pass using a resistor. The car has started every time over the last 2 years perfectly and I can attribute some of that to a complete starter blanket wrap.

 

As I noted a waste of time.

The enable relay is operated by the VATS module which you have now over ridden with the resistor fix so the relay no longer performs any useful function

 

This is simply not true, all the "resistor fix" does is trick the system into thinking the correct key is always in the ignition. The only problems it can fix are; a bad resistor in the key, poor contacts with the resistor in the key barrel, or broken wires coming from the contacts in the key barrel. It in no way, bypasses or overrides the VATS system.

The relay may not be "useful" in that it will no longer keep someone from stealing your car, but a functioning relay is still necessary to enable the starter even with VATS bypass.

 

It is not called a VATS bypass for nothing.
The module still operates to supply the fuel enable signal to the ECM but by installing the resistor you
have completely defeated any security function VATS performs so the enable relay is now redundant

How so?
The enable relay is only a switch on the wiring from the Ign switch to the starter designed to cut off power to the starter.

It is not wired as a supply relay as was done on older cars where the Ign operated the starter relay which then applied power direct from the batt to the starter

Typical VATS circuit shown below
You will observe that bypassing the relay has no effect on the starter circuit; the yellow power wire from the Ign
just goes straight to the NSS instead

 

Alright, after comparing the prices of bypass modules vs a new chip, I've decided to get a chip for the car. None of the resistors worked, as I originally stated, and with the combination of a chip with the VATS flag(s) turned off and also bypassing the start enable relay, I can entirely rule out VATS as a cause for my no start. With any luck, my no start would no longer exist at that point.

I am not worried about the security aspect; only getting my car started and simplifying everything to keep it reliable.

I've had a couple PMs on this site from people offering to burn a PROM, and I see several other sites that do the same thing. Is there a particular member here or a certain website which is regarded as a good source?

Sorry for being a total newb here. I'd be all over this if it were a problem with my Jeep.

 

For just vats removal I charge $30

 

Short version: I put a jumper on the start enable relay, and I ordered a PROM from Tuned Performance. It runs (poorly).

Tuned Performance was extremely helpful and patient with all of my questions. Product shipped and arrived very quickly, with tracking number, and he followed up with an email asking not only if it arrived, but also if it fixed my problems. I highly recommend his services to anyone interested.

Now it idles erratically and dies, so I'm not off the hook. I'm gonna try some octane booster since it's been sitting for 5 months at 1/4 tank, and I might wait until tomorrow before I start messing with anything else.

Thanks again to everyone who offered info and advice.

 

octane booster WILL NOT help if the gas is bad, modern gas contains ethanol which will break down into sugar and can physically plug up fuel lines and injectors. Drain the tank, fill it with fresh gas and mix in some sta-bil ethanol fuel treatment http://www.goldeagle.com/products/4_oz_ethanol.aspx

 

Your theory's keep getting better.

Just because ethanol is made from sugar doesn't mean it goes back to being sugar when it breaks down
Pour some vodka in your driveway and see how much " sugar " you get

Ethanol does however cause other documented problems

Vehicles stored with gasoline containing Ethanol in the fuel tank are more likely to have problems with the alcohol causing
component corrosion, deterioration, and breakdown.
Ethanol is much more hygroscopic than regular gasoline. This holding of dissolved or suspended water can lead to corrosion;
and gum, varnish, and carbon deposit formation problems.
Ethanol is not as volatile as gasoline, therefore as the percentage of alcohol increases; the engine becomes progressively more
difficult to start in cold weather conditions.
Ethanol is a strong solvent ,used by industry for hundreds of years to clean off contaminants and to dissolve and suspend solids.
Dissolved solids (plastics, rubber materials, etc.) in gasoline will tend to reform as the fuel evaporates.
The reforming of the dissolved material shows up as deposits in the fuel system and engine.

 

no need to be a dick

the fact remains, ethanol can gum up your fuel system, instead of picking out the small inaccuracies to make yourself feel smarter, why dont we focus on the general gist of my post which was the octane rating of the gasoline in his fuel tank is not the issue here.

 

Just addressing the inaccuracies you put up, that perpetuate urban myths commonly presented as facts on here.

I notice you haven't responded to the starter relay post with more detail justifying your opinion?

 

Please don't wield you egos here, fellas. I like my information plain.

Just want to update again. I took her down the road and filled up with 91 to dilute the 1/4 tank of crap that was in there. She's running nice and smooth now, so I think the old gas was the only problem.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

because truthfully it is irrelevant. My goal was not to get into a who knows more useless information debate. It was to help him solve a problem, that he has since solved so further discussion only serves to further clutter his thread and in the long run actually makes things more difficult for him.

THAT is why I didnt get into a debate with you over a starter relay, because it would not be useful to the original poster.

 

Maybe so but plenty of people do search and reference older posts for solving their problems and the info
you presented is just plain wrong ( unless you have something to back your claim? )

 

Thank you again for you business, Glad the new fuel smoothed out the engine I don't trust fuel even setting more than 3 month for even my lawn care equipment

 

ive had pretty good luck with putting sta-bil in my car sitting in the winter and i have three quads, three mowers and a snow blower. they all sit for many months with standard gas and the level of stabilizer from the chart and i havent had to mess with a carb or lines since i started doing that.