Location for Alarm Installation
04-27-2017, 07:55 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Location for Alarm Installation
Hello,
I know people (quite reasonably!) don't like to reveal the exact nature of their alarm installations, but I'm looking for a little general advice.
I'm looking to install an alarm and immobiliser, and I'm wondering where's the best place to site the alarm control box. Under the driver's kick panel seems to be preferred by installers, but obviously leaves it very accessible to someone trying to attack the car.
Is it feasible to install the alarm control box beneath the dash pad behind the dashboard and still get access to the wiring? Will I need to wholly remove the dashboard to do this, or would it be possible with only the dashpad removed?
I'm also considering installing the alarm itself inside the cabin. My logic is that an alarm on the outside would probably simply be ignored, but someone trying to get into the car with an alarm going off in a confined space will probably find the car a rather unpleasant place to be... I'm thinking of installing this behind the radio, if there's sufficient space.
This also means I can keep all the wiring inside the cabin, and not have to worry about going through the bulkhead. However, is it possible to disable the coil from behind the dashboard? I have a mechanical fuel pump, so my options for disabling the car are limited to the ignition and the coil (I think).
Many thanks for any help,
ND
I know people (quite reasonably!) don't like to reveal the exact nature of their alarm installations, but I'm looking for a little general advice.
I'm looking to install an alarm and immobiliser, and I'm wondering where's the best place to site the alarm control box. Under the driver's kick panel seems to be preferred by installers, but obviously leaves it very accessible to someone trying to attack the car.
Is it feasible to install the alarm control box beneath the dash pad behind the dashboard and still get access to the wiring? Will I need to wholly remove the dashboard to do this, or would it be possible with only the dashpad removed?
I'm also considering installing the alarm itself inside the cabin. My logic is that an alarm on the outside would probably simply be ignored, but someone trying to get into the car with an alarm going off in a confined space will probably find the car a rather unpleasant place to be... I'm thinking of installing this behind the radio, if there's sufficient space.
This also means I can keep all the wiring inside the cabin, and not have to worry about going through the bulkhead. However, is it possible to disable the coil from behind the dashboard? I have a mechanical fuel pump, so my options for disabling the car are limited to the ignition and the coil (I think).
Many thanks for any help,
ND
04-29-2017, 06:36 PM
#2
Member
Thread Starter
Re: Location for Alarm Installation
Have I asked a daft question? :-)
I've tried searching Google images for views behind the dashboard but I've not yet found anything conclusive that there would be space behind there, or that accessing the fuse board or ECU wiring would be feasible. I'd very much appreciate any advice from someone who's been there before, as I'd prefer not to risk damaging the dash pad by removing it unnecessarily!
Regarding disabling the ignition system, wiring diagrams show four wires connecting the EST in the distributor cap to the ECU. Could I splice one of the alarm cut-outs into one of these wires to prevent the distributor from sparking, or will this simply force the car to run at base timing but still be able to run (albeit badly)?
Many thanks for any help or advice!
ND
I've tried searching Google images for views behind the dashboard but I've not yet found anything conclusive that there would be space behind there, or that accessing the fuse board or ECU wiring would be feasible. I'd very much appreciate any advice from someone who's been there before, as I'd prefer not to risk damaging the dash pad by removing it unnecessarily!
Regarding disabling the ignition system, wiring diagrams show four wires connecting the EST in the distributor cap to the ECU. Could I splice one of the alarm cut-outs into one of these wires to prevent the distributor from sparking, or will this simply force the car to run at base timing but still be able to run (albeit badly)?
Many thanks for any help or advice!
ND
04-29-2017, 07:50 PM
#3
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Re: Location for Alarm Installation
Just hide a GPS tracker in it and pull the ign fuse (edit: I ment ECM/fuelpump fuse that's under the hood). A inconvenience yet Super simple and cheap without cutting a bunch of wires.
Last edited by TTOP350; 05-02-2017 at 08:11 AM.
04-30-2017, 08:26 AM
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Re: Location for Alarm Installation
There is a LONG LIST of things that I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FOR ANY REASON AT ANY TIME do to ANY car.
Installing an aftermarket alarm is high up near the top of this list. Adding "immobilizer" to that, moves it ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP.
They don't work. (in the sense that, they don't keep the car from suffering from theft, regardless of whether they "function" in a mechanical way) All they do is, create LOTS of hard-to-diagnose intermittent problems right at the very heart of the car's usefulness that often don't show up right away, but instead, only after you've forgotten all the details and now it's impossible to remember what all you disturbed.
Don't do it.
Installing an aftermarket alarm is high up near the top of this list. Adding "immobilizer" to that, moves it ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP.
They don't work. (in the sense that, they don't keep the car from suffering from theft, regardless of whether they "function" in a mechanical way) All they do is, create LOTS of hard-to-diagnose intermittent problems right at the very heart of the car's usefulness that often don't show up right away, but instead, only after you've forgotten all the details and now it's impossible to remember what all you disturbed.
Don't do it.
04-30-2017, 11:26 AM
#5
Re: Location for Alarm Installation
I would be OK with installing an alarm that only went off when the doors were opened or hit/shook. Other than that the alarms can lead to issues. Don't leave anything inside your car and you'll prevent the smash and grab crime. The fastest way to steal a car is with a tow truck or box truck and an alarm can't do anything against that. Hidden GPS tracker with it's own power supply and the hope that you can find where the car is before they find the tracker is the only hope against that kind of theft.
04-30-2017, 05:17 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Re: Location for Alarm Installation
If someone with a tow truck is looking to steal a car, mine is the last one they're going to pull. I'm more worried about some ****** thinking 'Coo, a V8!' and joyriding it into a tree. A GPS tracker isn't going to do much about that, and I'm pretty sure anyone mechanically-minded enough to hotwire a car isn't going to be held up for long by a missing fuse.
An alarm or immobiliser installed properly should be perfectly reliable. I've owned my other car with an aftermarket immobiliser for 8 years and it's never given me trouble, only peace of mind.
So, can anyone advise me on how to immobilise the coil?
Cheers,
ND
An alarm or immobiliser installed properly should be perfectly reliable. I've owned my other car with an aftermarket immobiliser for 8 years and it's never given me trouble, only peace of mind.
So, can anyone advise me on how to immobilise the coil?
Cheers,
ND
05-01-2017, 01:52 PM
#7
Re: Location for Alarm Installation
There are a bevy of ways to immobilize the coil, the easiest would be to put a switch on the ignition fuse, fuel pump fuse or ecm fuse. You would most likely have to use a relay and all this would add in possible future issues. As Sofa implied, when it comes to very necessary functions of the vehicle's electrical system, the fewer hands you have in the pot the better. Everytime you add or splice you open up the possibility of future failure and let me tell you from first hand experience that hunting down electrical problems on the side of the road is not fun.
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05-01-2017, 05:05 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Re: Location for Alarm Installation
Ah, thank you! I hadn't spotted the ECM fuse. I'll check the wiring diagrams.
I have a mechanical fuel pump, so no go there, and I'm already planning to intercept the ignition wire. I may also add another switch (separate from the alarm) into the clutch switch wire.
I know with a mechanical fuel pump it's possible to run the car just by jumping the starter motor - would this still be possible with no power to the ECM?
Also, you say I will need to use relays - I thought relays would only be necessary for high-power and 12v circuits. Wouldn't the ignition switch and power to the ECM be low enough power to be switched by the immobiliser directly?
Many thanks!
ND
I have a mechanical fuel pump, so no go there, and I'm already planning to intercept the ignition wire. I may also add another switch (separate from the alarm) into the clutch switch wire.
I know with a mechanical fuel pump it's possible to run the car just by jumping the starter motor - would this still be possible with no power to the ECM?
Also, you say I will need to use relays - I thought relays would only be necessary for high-power and 12v circuits. Wouldn't the ignition switch and power to the ECM be low enough power to be switched by the immobiliser directly?
Many thanks!
ND
05-01-2017, 05:11 PM
#9
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Alarm Farm
Some good info from sofakingdom.
But I think you’re going to install something anyway, so make sure you draw a schematic of your addition.
The GPS idea from TTOP350 is also good.
(By the way there is no “ignition fuse”.)
He could remove the INJ fuses, however there are much more convenient ways do achieve the same effect.
Mr. nd some people might tell you cannot make a car theft proof, because they can tow it (GPS to the rescue!) or they can lift it with a helicopter.
But I know you’re concerned with the real world therefore you just need to make it theft resistant enuff to get rid of the knuckle dragging loser on the street.
That’s easy.
The deeper you bury the alarm system the more difficult it will be to service it, however one failing is extremely rare.
Most failures are caused by amateurish installers.
Therefore when you install, if you know how to solder do it that way.
If not, use splices.
Most amateurish installers overcrimp splices crushing the strands so they eventually break.
You can use race proven splices which after you splice them, you heat the ends with a heat gun, and it seals the ends making the weatherproof.
You can use a torque controlled crimper.
If a crimper like that is not available to you can use a standard crimper and practice.
For example on 18 AWG, you should be able to suspend 20 pounds before failure.
You can surround the control unit with energy absorbing foam such as roll cage padding.
Yes, an alarm inside the cabin plus outside is better then outside alone.
Yes you can disable the coil by installing or repurposing a switch to disconnect the 12 volt line to the coil.
You can use a relay in the engine compartment.
You can do that with only one thin wire from the dash to the relay, or repurpose an unused wire.
You can even do it with a wireless relay.
You can add sheet metal in the doors making it impossible to use a slim-jim.
You can add a timer that makes the loser think he is getting away by allowing the car to start but it stalls after several seconds of driving and only you know the secret to defeat it.
You can hide a tiny camera in the car so after the moron runs like the coward he is from the stalled car you have his filthy mug to identify him.
The above is merely a VERY TINY portion of the almost unlimited ways to render street losers helpless.
◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙
Happy Racing !
◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙
Make Noise, Turn Left, Repeat
But I think you’re going to install something anyway, so make sure you draw a schematic of your addition.
The GPS idea from TTOP350 is also good.
(By the way there is no “ignition fuse”.)
He could remove the INJ fuses, however there are much more convenient ways do achieve the same effect.
Mr. nd some people might tell you cannot make a car theft proof, because they can tow it (GPS to the rescue!) or they can lift it with a helicopter.
But I know you’re concerned with the real world therefore you just need to make it theft resistant enuff to get rid of the knuckle dragging loser on the street.
That’s easy.
The deeper you bury the alarm system the more difficult it will be to service it, however one failing is extremely rare.
Most failures are caused by amateurish installers.
Therefore when you install, if you know how to solder do it that way.
If not, use splices.
Most amateurish installers overcrimp splices crushing the strands so they eventually break.
You can use race proven splices which after you splice them, you heat the ends with a heat gun, and it seals the ends making the weatherproof.
You can use a torque controlled crimper.
If a crimper like that is not available to you can use a standard crimper and practice.
For example on 18 AWG, you should be able to suspend 20 pounds before failure.
You can surround the control unit with energy absorbing foam such as roll cage padding.
Yes, an alarm inside the cabin plus outside is better then outside alone.
Yes you can disable the coil by installing or repurposing a switch to disconnect the 12 volt line to the coil.
You can use a relay in the engine compartment.
You can do that with only one thin wire from the dash to the relay, or repurpose an unused wire.
You can even do it with a wireless relay.
You can add sheet metal in the doors making it impossible to use a slim-jim.
You can add a timer that makes the loser think he is getting away by allowing the car to start but it stalls after several seconds of driving and only you know the secret to defeat it.
You can hide a tiny camera in the car so after the moron runs like the coward he is from the stalled car you have his filthy mug to identify him.
The above is merely a VERY TINY portion of the almost unlimited ways to render street losers helpless.
◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙
Happy Racing !
◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙
Make Noise, Turn Left, Repeat
05-02-2017, 11:41 AM
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Re: Location for Alarm Installation
There is a LONG LIST of things that I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FOR ANY REASON AT ANY TIME do to ANY car.
Installing an aftermarket alarm is high up near the top of this list. Adding "immobilizer" to that, moves it ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP.
They don't work. (in the sense that, they don't keep the car from suffering from theft, regardless of whether they "function" in a mechanical way) All they do is, create LOTS of hard-to-diagnose intermittent problems right at the very heart of the car's usefulness that often don't show up right away, but instead, only after you've forgotten all the details and now it's impossible to remember what all you disturbed.
Don't do it.
Installing an aftermarket alarm is high up near the top of this list. Adding "immobilizer" to that, moves it ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP.
They don't work. (in the sense that, they don't keep the car from suffering from theft, regardless of whether they "function" in a mechanical way) All they do is, create LOTS of hard-to-diagnose intermittent problems right at the very heart of the car's usefulness that often don't show up right away, but instead, only after you've forgotten all the details and now it's impossible to remember what all you disturbed.
Don't do it.
I agree.
Besides, when was the last time you heard a car alarm go off, and called the Police? Typical reaction is to assume it's a false alarm, and be annoyed.
05-02-2017, 05:44 PM
#12
Member
Thread Starter
Re: Location for Alarm Installation
Lots more good advice! Thanks!
My intention is to solder all connections - I wouldn't countenance using splices to do this. All connections would be wrapped in heatshrink and then taped together with other loom to disguise the connection.
I know what you mean about people generally ignoring car alarms - that's partly why I intend to locate the siren inside the cabin. There will be less noise outside to irritate people should it go off accidentally, but more importantly it should make the interior a painful place to be should someone manage to break into the car. Hopefully this will dissuade them from trying too hard to defeat the immobiliser before their ears start ringing.
You're quite right though - in an ideal world I really wouldn't want to hack into my car's wiring to install an immobiliser, but this isn't an ideal world and if I want to be able to use this car it needs to have at least some reasonable security.
Could someone confirm the point about using relays? I was under the impression that the switch circuit wouldn't be carrying sufficient current to warrant a relay, and I presume the same would go for the ECM wiring?
Also could someone confirm if access to the wiring for the fusebox and ECM is accessible from behind the dashpad?
Many thanks everyone!
ND
My intention is to solder all connections - I wouldn't countenance using splices to do this. All connections would be wrapped in heatshrink and then taped together with other loom to disguise the connection.
I know what you mean about people generally ignoring car alarms - that's partly why I intend to locate the siren inside the cabin. There will be less noise outside to irritate people should it go off accidentally, but more importantly it should make the interior a painful place to be should someone manage to break into the car. Hopefully this will dissuade them from trying too hard to defeat the immobiliser before their ears start ringing.
You're quite right though - in an ideal world I really wouldn't want to hack into my car's wiring to install an immobiliser, but this isn't an ideal world and if I want to be able to use this car it needs to have at least some reasonable security.
Could someone confirm the point about using relays? I was under the impression that the switch circuit wouldn't be carrying sufficient current to warrant a relay, and I presume the same would go for the ECM wiring?
Also could someone confirm if access to the wiring for the fusebox and ECM is accessible from behind the dashpad?
Many thanks everyone!
ND