Gauges stopped working
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2
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From: Palmer, Alaska
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 305 5.0L V8 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Stock
Gauges stopped working
Hey just like to start off by saying I've lurked on here for about 2 years and found every answer to every problem I've had by searching on here. This one issue in particular though, I've had trouble narrowing down. I've seen lots of posts of people losing power to gauges and repeatedly blowing their gauge fuse, however that is not the same story for me. My 10A gauge fuse is perfectly fine and I am inclined to believe it could be a fusible link at the front of the car. This is just my hunch though.
How it Happened: So I bought a universal power window kit, took the time to figure it out, how its set up, and I have it semi-installed. I used a spade-like terminal to plug into the IGN port in the fuse box since that port isn't fit to take a double blade fuse. Upon putting the key into the ACC position and rolling down the window, it seemed to do alright. I greased the HELL out of all the window regulator parts with lithium spray, by the way.
Rolling it back up now, it goes halfway up and begins to struggle. It stops rolling up, I hear a pop come from either the fuse box or further past it under the hood.
I test the system and turn on the car. Fires right up, I have radio, lights, but no working gauges (specifically the tach and speedo, I believe the others are on a different circuit) again this has led me to believe that this is a fusible link issue, however I've read that people with bad fusible links cannot even start the car, or if they can, they don't get any devices working with it such as radio, headlights, gauges.
My ONLY issue is the two main gauges not working now since this unknown thing "popped"
Details: I must remind you I am a novice at electricity and am now only just learning how to solve problems such as these. I really want to learn how to fix this on my own but I need some help narrowing this one down. I plan on not tapping into the fuse box anymore and running a 4-prong relay between the battery and the power window harness to avoid this mess in the future.
I can produce pictures upon asking, that won't be an issue just let me know!
How it Happened: So I bought a universal power window kit, took the time to figure it out, how its set up, and I have it semi-installed. I used a spade-like terminal to plug into the IGN port in the fuse box since that port isn't fit to take a double blade fuse. Upon putting the key into the ACC position and rolling down the window, it seemed to do alright. I greased the HELL out of all the window regulator parts with lithium spray, by the way.
Rolling it back up now, it goes halfway up and begins to struggle. It stops rolling up, I hear a pop come from either the fuse box or further past it under the hood.
I test the system and turn on the car. Fires right up, I have radio, lights, but no working gauges (specifically the tach and speedo, I believe the others are on a different circuit) again this has led me to believe that this is a fusible link issue, however I've read that people with bad fusible links cannot even start the car, or if they can, they don't get any devices working with it such as radio, headlights, gauges.
My ONLY issue is the two main gauges not working now since this unknown thing "popped"
Details: I must remind you I am a novice at electricity and am now only just learning how to solve problems such as these. I really want to learn how to fix this on my own but I need some help narrowing this one down. I plan on not tapping into the fuse box anymore and running a 4-prong relay between the battery and the power window harness to avoid this mess in the future.
I can produce pictures upon asking, that won't be an issue just let me know!
Joined: Sep 2005
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Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
Transmission: Sometimes
Axle/Gears: Behind me somewhere
Re: Gauges stopped working
Not the fusible links.
Think of your house wiring: you've got a box with breakers for each circuit, like the washing machine, the north bedroom receptacles, the basement lights, etc. It has a Main breaker, that if you turn it off or it trips, your whole house goes dark.
Now imagine that instead of 1 breaker panel, you've got 2 or 3, each with its own main. Your house's load is split up in the panels; the water heater, receptacle for the TV, and the bathrooms are in panel 1, the kitchen receptacles, living room lights, and oven are in panel 2, the washing machine, bedroom receptacles, and microwave are in panel 3, etc. Now: what happens when you flip JUST ONE of the Main breakers? Does ONE of the kitchen receptacles keep working while the rest of them still have power? Of course not.
That's what fusible links are: the main breakers to various sub-distributions of power. If one of those blew, then something like half of the whole car wouldn't work. You might lose the exterior lights, ignition, and power seats, but the radio, HVAC, interior lights, and cigarette lighter might still work. I don't know the specific parts, but it will be in a pattern something like that. It won't cause, say, the right window to stop, but the left one to keep going; or the left front blinker to not work, but the other 3 still work; or 2 gauges to quit, but the other 4 still work; and so forth. A fusible link won't take out just one part of one subsystem. It'll take out half the car.
I can't believe anybody would even try to run something as high-power as window motors off of the gauge circuit. The gauges are a little tiny draw of no more than a couple of amps at most, carried in little tiny wire. Windows on the other hand are enough power to dim the headlights, and have wire about 8 times as large as the gauge circuit if not more, to power them. That makes no sense to even try. That'd be about like trying to plug an arc welder into a USB cell phone charger. Doesn't matter whether you can find a connector that "fits" or not; it's gonna cause bad things to happen, if ANYTHING happens at all.
Step 1: get a copy of the FSM for your car. It'll have the wiring diagrams for it, such that you don't need "just my hunch though", "led me to believe", "I've read", and all such as that; because you'll have it all right there in front of you in black and white.
Step 2: power your windows from somewhere that is intended to provide enough power for things that use THAT MUCH power. Quit trying to burn up your gauges wiring. I'd suggest plugging into the place the factory plugged in theirs; up at the top of the driver's kick panel, above the hood release cable, is a big junction block, specifically designed to accommodate power windows, power seats, power mirrors, rear window defoggers, and so on. Use it. Your new FSM will help you find which port to use.
Step 3: find what you burned up. All the gauges are on the same circuit, they all get their power from the same place, and all of them are in common on the printed circuit board on the back of the dash. Here again, the FSM will prove invaluable, as it will show you how everything is hooked up, thereby allowing you to trace the various circuits from one end to the other.
Step 4: don't bother with "relay" and all that. Not the answer to your problem. Relays are great for some things, indispensable in fact; this isn't one of them. Simply choosing the right place to get your power from will eliminate any further needs, except of course, finding what you destroyed by improperly wiring something.
Think of your house wiring: you've got a box with breakers for each circuit, like the washing machine, the north bedroom receptacles, the basement lights, etc. It has a Main breaker, that if you turn it off or it trips, your whole house goes dark.
Now imagine that instead of 1 breaker panel, you've got 2 or 3, each with its own main. Your house's load is split up in the panels; the water heater, receptacle for the TV, and the bathrooms are in panel 1, the kitchen receptacles, living room lights, and oven are in panel 2, the washing machine, bedroom receptacles, and microwave are in panel 3, etc. Now: what happens when you flip JUST ONE of the Main breakers? Does ONE of the kitchen receptacles keep working while the rest of them still have power? Of course not.
That's what fusible links are: the main breakers to various sub-distributions of power. If one of those blew, then something like half of the whole car wouldn't work. You might lose the exterior lights, ignition, and power seats, but the radio, HVAC, interior lights, and cigarette lighter might still work. I don't know the specific parts, but it will be in a pattern something like that. It won't cause, say, the right window to stop, but the left one to keep going; or the left front blinker to not work, but the other 3 still work; or 2 gauges to quit, but the other 4 still work; and so forth. A fusible link won't take out just one part of one subsystem. It'll take out half the car.
I can't believe anybody would even try to run something as high-power as window motors off of the gauge circuit. The gauges are a little tiny draw of no more than a couple of amps at most, carried in little tiny wire. Windows on the other hand are enough power to dim the headlights, and have wire about 8 times as large as the gauge circuit if not more, to power them. That makes no sense to even try. That'd be about like trying to plug an arc welder into a USB cell phone charger. Doesn't matter whether you can find a connector that "fits" or not; it's gonna cause bad things to happen, if ANYTHING happens at all.
Step 1: get a copy of the FSM for your car. It'll have the wiring diagrams for it, such that you don't need "just my hunch though", "led me to believe", "I've read", and all such as that; because you'll have it all right there in front of you in black and white.
Step 2: power your windows from somewhere that is intended to provide enough power for things that use THAT MUCH power. Quit trying to burn up your gauges wiring. I'd suggest plugging into the place the factory plugged in theirs; up at the top of the driver's kick panel, above the hood release cable, is a big junction block, specifically designed to accommodate power windows, power seats, power mirrors, rear window defoggers, and so on. Use it. Your new FSM will help you find which port to use.
Step 3: find what you burned up. All the gauges are on the same circuit, they all get their power from the same place, and all of them are in common on the printed circuit board on the back of the dash. Here again, the FSM will prove invaluable, as it will show you how everything is hooked up, thereby allowing you to trace the various circuits from one end to the other.
Step 4: don't bother with "relay" and all that. Not the answer to your problem. Relays are great for some things, indispensable in fact; this isn't one of them. Simply choosing the right place to get your power from will eliminate any further needs, except of course, finding what you destroyed by improperly wiring something.
Last edited by sofakingdom; May 10, 2021 at 03:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Palmer, Alaska
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 305 5.0L V8 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: Gauges stopped working
I appreciate the response. I'm having the car taken in so it can get some popped wires in the back of the fuse panel repaired. I tried running my power window power supply through WDO, however this one is always hot despite the manual stating it is only hot when running. Any suggestions as to which power window fuse terminal is only hot when running?
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