i see a lot of posts about 383s. the idea of building a torque monster for the street makes perfect sense ... what an engine does above 5,500-6,000 rpm makes no difference on a street car, but there's no substitute for cubic inches, and a 400 doesn't require the custom machine work a 383 does.

here's my old setup:

* 400 2 bolt main (pickup engine)
* completely stock short block with dish pistons
* 350/300hp heads (milled 0.040) with extra mounting holes drilled to fit the 400
*crane 0.510 lift, 0.310 (advertised) duration, 110 degree center solid lifter camshaft
* weiand single plane, hi rise intake
* holley 850 double pumper
* stock gm hei distributor
* hooker 1 3/4 headers long tube headers

in a 70 chevelle with a 3.31 gear, turbo 350 transmission, stock corvette (3 bolt) converter, on street radials (not drag tires), through the mufflers and shifting at 5,800 rpm, this combination consistently ran 12:40s on horsepower and 11:70s on nitrous. i drove the car every day and made no changes when i took it to the track. i even ran it on 87 octane gas!

in retrospect, i believe the combination worked so well because, while it made tons of torque, the single plane intake, big tube headers and too big cam cut enough off of the very bottom end to let it launch without frying the tires ( i didn't know that at the time, those were just the components i could find used and cheap). we always figured the car was at least 4 or 5 tenths quicker on the street than it was on the track. on asphalt, you could hit the nitrous immediately and the car would launch so hard the clutches in the posi unit chattered. at the track, you had to get off of the concrete launching pad before you could hit the juice.

i see people wasting so much time and money on "bulletproof" shortblocks, cams that make all their power at high rpm and loose converters. a street motor and a race motor are two different animals ... especially on a daily driver. a stock rotating assembly is more than strong enough if you build the motor to make it's power at lower rpms.

i just bought a 1989 formula firebird with a 305 tbi and a 5 speed. i plan on playing with the 305 for awhile, seeing what i can get out of it before swapping, but i believe you could build completely streetable 400 way on the cheap and easily make well over 375 hp and 400 ft. lbs. of torque. here's what i'm considering:

* 400 2bolt main block (2 bolt mains are actually stronger than factory 4 bolt mains on a 400 because of the big cylinder bores)
* stock crank and rods (with arp rod bolts)
* hypereutectic dish pistons (hypereutectic because you can run tighter clearances than with forged; dished because i want a final compression ratio of no more than 9.0:1 so i can run 87 octane gas)
* hydraulic roller cam with a lift of at least 0.500 and as much duration as the power brakes (and tbi) can stand
* vortec heads with the valve spring upgrades (only 319.00 each from scroggins-dickey!)
* edelbrock performer intake with 780 single-pump holley, or performer intake with a tuned up 454 truck tbi or a tweaked tpi (not sure about fuel injection yet. i love it for driveability and fuel economy, but it looks pretty expensive to get horsepower out of it.)
* proform hei distributor

this would not be an expensive engine to build at all! i'd put my money in the prep work .... deck, align hone, balancing the rotating assembly, etc. maybe an internally-balanced crank (only if it were less expensive than the the flywheel for the manual trans.)

i believe that combination would make huge power in my firebird with a 3.42 gear and a t-56. the only problem i see is the exhaust. even with a 3 inch setup, it's still a single exhaust system and can't help but be restrictive.

thoughts anyone?

 

Sounds good. When do you think you will be building this?

I would say if you are looking to go cheap buid it carbed. TBI is hard to make power out of, tpi is awsome if you can afford the aftermarket intakes such as the miniram or super ram, but those cost up above a grand I believe. In my opinion a super ramed or miniramed 400 would be awsome, but it sounds like you are looking to build a budget oriented motor so it would probably not be your best choice.

Ben

 

This is what I have on Tap for my SBC 408, however this is not a budget engine for me. I will be spending about $3500.00

My SBC 400

Engine: 400 SBC ID# 330817/14y139664/ T0508CSU
(4.125 bore X 3.750 stroke) after .040 bore (4.165 bore x 3.75 stroke =408)

Crank: Scat Cast 9000 3.750 6.00, Internally Balance

Piston: Wiseco Pistons Part# PT020H4 .040, 5.4cc; 430 grams

Rods: Eagle ESP 4340 H-Rods 6.0

Block: Zero Deck: 0.000

Compression Ratio: Static-10:48:1 Dynamic-8:30

Cam: Grind: 12-430-8: 280HR 280º 28º ADV Duration @.050 224º IN 224ºEX. Valve Lift.525IN .525EX; 110 LOBE SEPERATION; 106 Intake Centerline: RPM Range: 2000-5500

Heads: AFR 195 part# 1035 w/23º valve angle, 74cc, drilled steam holes

Head Gasket: Fel-Pro-1014 / 0.039

Intake: Edelbrock RPM #7101

Carb: Holley Street Avenger 770 or 750 (3310)

Rear End Gear: 3:73

Transmission: Pro-Built Street/Strip 700R4

Stall Converter: A.C.T. 3000 Stall

Exhaust: Hooker Super Comp headers 1 5/8 Headers part # 2460-1 ceramic coated;
Custom Y-Pipe 2 1/2in
Hooker Super Competition high flow cat-back exhaust system, Intermediate pipe: 3 in.
* Tail pipe diameter: 2 1/2 in.
* Dual tail pipes out the rear under the bumper

***
I might switch to a Ultradyne Cam: 280/288 ADV Dur. 112 LSA .530/.530 LIft 226I/234E @.050 More aggressive design. 2000-5500
David

 

The 400 is a GREAT street / strip engine, and I've built several. There are several things to consider though.


If you're using a stock type 400, that is externally balanced ( as all GM 400's were ) you'll need to cough up the $$$ to get a special flywheel from Centerforce to work with the small 10.4" clutch that fits in the T5 bellhousing.

Using a roller cam in a 400 can get pricey. You can can simply buy a 'retro-fit' roller cam and then you'll have to use aftermarket retro-fit roller lifters. This will cost an easy $500-600 by itself. The cheapest I've seen these roller lifters for older engines is $250 or so.

OR.....you can use a factory type roller cam and use the kit from Lingerfelter to use the factory type hold down and cam button, but you'll have to drill holes in the 400 block......and you'll STILL have to use the aftermarket lifters.


In the real world, IF you're using a T5 and a roller cam, you'll actually spend less in the long run to make just as much power by using a factory 350 roller block and an aftermarket stroker crank. But then you'll still need the Centerforce flywheel UNLESS you get a better quality stroker crank and have the engine balanced internally. From what I've seen, using the 'cheaper' aftermarket cranks can cost big $$$$ to get them balanced internally.


That being said, I'm more than likely going to be building a 400 for a guy at work this Spring...we talked everything over, and it looks like we'll go with a stock type 400, Vortec heads, non roller cam , and he'll use the Vortec TPI base and the Centerforce flywheel.

At this point, I'm on the verge of just recommending that we use a 350 roller block, stroker crank, roller cam and the Stealth Ram. It's worth just as much power, if not a good bit more, out of the box than the 400 combo.


It is only 17 cubic inches less ( or 23 if it's bored .030 over making a 406 ).


A healthy 383, with a good cam, some good heads and a Stealth Ram should make an EASY 370-425 flywheel HP and GOBS of torque. The trade off comes from going to a bigger cam which can take some of the torque advantage away from the 383.


HTH

 

i run a single plane intake on my 400 to kill some of the low end torque. it doesn't launch as hard as it did with the dual plane but i'm trying to save my rearend. i find that i usually catch the other guy at the 1/8 mile. i still get a110 mph trap speed. i shift at 5600 and go thru the traps at 4600 with 3.42 gears. my bro shifts his 350 at 6800 with 4.10 gears and i still beat him by 3 tenths. i'm sure my motor will last longer than his. i've got a stock rebuilt bottom end with arp rod vbolts and hypert. pistons like you suggest. i think the 400s torque more than makes up for the hi winding hp of other combos for the money invested

 

Yes, the torque is awsome, I kind of see his point of going with a 383 instead of a 400 if you are trying to do it with a bit less money because you can get a factory roller block. The 383 is still a has tons of torque but it costs less to get the benifit of a roller cam.

Ben

 

Curious, why would you have to drill holes in the block?.... Lingenfelter's kit doesn't come with a factory style retainer. It comes with a wear plate, 3 torx head bolts, and a sized down nylon cam button to work with the factory roller block timing covers.

 

not so much on a budget as being streetable and sensible. miniram and superram, for example, make great power at high rpm, but sacrifice torque. i don't think they're optimal for the street.

i want a car that i can drive every day that gets good mileage and makes great power on regular gas. i'll go with whatever induction system makes the most sense. the car came with tbi, and i'll stick with it if it'll work. honestly, i'm having a hell of a time learning about it. on the tbi board, as soon as someone says something in the slightest bit negative about the setup, the moderator shuts the string down. edelbrock and holley make aftermarket tbi parts, but only for truck tbi systems, not fbody.

switching to tbi looks pretty expensive, and i don't think you can switch to a carb on an 89 firebird and be emissions legal, so i don't know what to do.

 

Well, with the super ram you dont really give up much if any low end. The super ram is still a tuned runner design which will produce quite a bit of torque it just doesnt have as long of runners so it can produce some high end. I know that there are people running both of those setups on the street. I have heard some even with the miniram that said it didnt feel like they lost much lowend. The miniram is real similar to a lt1 intake and they worked fine on the street.

Just something to think about.

Ben

 

the flywheel runs about 350.00, a good, internally balanced crank would be at least a grand.

for the street, especially in a low-revving engine, a roller cam wouldn't be necessary.

the point i was making was that a 400 might be less expensive. i don't know what the cost of having the block clearanced would be, but if it's around the same cost as the flywheel, i'd go with the 400 every time. if the car is an automatic, the 400 is even more attractive, as all you need is an externally-balanced flex plate, which is much cheaper.

those 17-23 cubic inches do make a difference, when everything else is the same. as the old saw goes "there is no substitute for cubic inches".

i'd say double that when you want monster torque from a low compression engine.

 

400s are great but they just arent flowing from the tap as far as availabilty and finding one with a good stock crank and rods without a ton of miles and a previous rebuild is even a harder task.

I do agree that unloading a buch of money into a bottom end is totally nuts. I am building a 383 with an Eagle cast crank and stock rods and dont plan to spin to much above 6000rpm and only at the track. Clearancing the block isnt much at all, if you spend more than 80-100$ you are being ripped off and it should be done by an actual machine not hand.

Full forged is great for those who will live at the track but not at all needed for us running on the street who might visit the track a couple times a year.

Anyway my .02

 

Is there such a thing?! Eventually you will get tired with whatever times your running and you'll want more, nitrous, better heads, bigger cam....it goes on and on...yes its an addiction

Its just easier to make it faster when you don't have to worry about the bottem end.

 

Hey I saw your post in the tbi board too, with regards to this about the tbi parts being for trucks, there is no difference between the truck parts and the fbody parts that is simply how they are listed by holley and edelbrock. A truck tbi would bolt right up to an f-body and work just fine. Really the only tough part I think about adapting your tbi to this engine you plan on building would be the prom tuning part, but you can either learn to tune yourself or someone on the tbi board would most likely help you out. I have a 91 305 tbi car and I'm swapping in a L98 and am going to swap my tbi over and really the only changes needed are a better flowing intake because the stock tbi intake is a real bottleneck and some bigger injectors. Then I plan on getting winaldl data from it and a guy at http://www.tbichips.com would be able to look at this data and burn a chip for me fairly cheap. You may want to consider doing something similar, it really doesn't sound like tbi is going to be hard at all to work with. Just my .02 though.

 

How much is the Centerforce flywheel for the t5 & 400 combo???