Friend of mine was talking to some guys who are doing some engine swapping in their cars in a couple weeks and there's going to be a 327 left over. What are the things to look for in a good 327? The reason they're swapping it out is because it was overheated and they have another 327 to go in place of it. Thought it would be different to build one of these up rather than the 350 sitting in the garage

 

bolt holes in the end of the heads

 

Yeah, those are always nice to have but I'm not using the stock heads

 

Nothing wrong with a 327, as such; but why give up 23 cubes? You'll just get that much less power out of it.

All of us that have been doing this for a while, quit building 327s the minute we started being able to get our hands on 350s. The reason was real simple: they make more power. Take your dollar, spend it on a 350, you get about 7% more out of it. It's just that simple. Anything you can do to a 327, you can do to a 350; only difference is, you get more.

Personally I like getting the maximum possible result out of every dollar I spend. I don't go to the gas station and valountarily pay for a gallon of gas I don't take with me, or go to a restaurant and eat hot dogs but pay for steak; I don't spend my money on little motors either, for the same reason.

 

If I wanted more cubes, I would have a 454 in the garage right now. Why give up the 23 cubes? To be different, everyone has a 350 or a 383 but not everyone does up a 327. The ammount of power lost between the 350 I've planned and building up a 327 would be less than 50 hp, big deal. Still be able to win plenty of races against larger cubed engines. Now on the other side of the spectrum, I might also be able to get a 406 but have no idea how much the guy wants for it, but the 327 is free.

 

if you want to differant build a 2.5 instead of another sheep running a SBC

 

If the 327 is free, you could probably make quite a profit selling it. There's a pretty big demand for them. I'd use this opportunity to make some extra money.

 

You're in California...

It's a whole lot easier to get a 350 or even a 400 SB through CA smog as a 305, than it would be to get a 454 through. Don't think the rest of us will believe that you could just slap a 454 in there and drive it, and that's your other option; it isn't.

The single smallest part of the expense of building a motor is the core. The biggest part of the expense is the machine work. Why spend $1000 in machine work on a "free" 327 short block when you can spend $1200 on a core and some machine work and have a 400 short block instead; and the total project with heads, exhaust, water pump, fluids, etc. etc. runs to $3000? Are you really "saving" anything by pumping raw cash into a "free" core that's not the best you can find? That would be about like putting a $5000 paint job on a 72 Pinto. Sure, it would shine and glisten and be a pretty color and all that; but it's still a 72 Pinto, that nobody cares one whit about because it's "different" and a loser.

But it's your money, maybe you'll just have to go through the expense and get beat a bunch of times before it'll make sense to you.

 

Have you lived in CA? Smog laws suck *** out here. You cant to hardly anything to a car and pass easily. You will be on the line most of the time. There is a reason the gov wants to make the federal emmisions the same as CA, they want it as clean as possible.

Brian

 

You know, it's funny... There's another thread on here and the guy asked about a 327 vs using a 400. He's not getting slammed like I am. Screw all of you who've been bashing me.

 

Im different and these guys that are replying to you have been more that helpful...just ask specific questions and Im sure you will get some help...what are the casting # on the block?

 

Circle track guys love the 327

 

If you go 400, why settle for 54 cubes less? Why not go for a 454? Then you'd be 48 cubes less than a 502. Screw it! Go with a 502, then noone can say anything.

 

Yes I have lived in CA. I only moved here about a year ago. I know the CA laws quite well.

A 350 or a 400 looks the same to the eye as a 305. You can put all the sensors, valves, etc. that the smog inspector will be looking for, into the same places in the engine. Unless they check casting numbers (which they generally don't), any small block that has all the correct parts on the outside correctly installed and connected, and that passes the IM240 dyno test, will pass; even though it may not be technically legal.

The same cannot be said of a 454. It is simply not an option for these cars, unless it's a later model 454 such as a TBI truck motor, and even then since it didn't come in this chassis, it would almost certainly have to go through the referee process.

Why handicap yourself by 23 inches? It makes no sense. In this case, being "different" equals "loser". You'll get beat, pure and simple. Anything you can do to a 327, you can do to a 350; it just produces more results when you do it to a 350. Cost is the same. There's no common sense, no specially reserved "loser's circle" for people who deliberately made a bad decision and hobbled themselves by wasting their money on a smaller motor.

If you want to be real different, go get a 267, and spend your money on that. That would be real different.... and even farther behind at the finish line.

I doubt anybody would pay any significant amount of money for a 327. Nobody builds them any more. We all quit building them back in the 70s when 350s started to become widely available and cheap, because ..... 327s got beat by 350s. Every time. No further questions. Case closed. Take a set of heads, a cam, an exhaust, a carb, an intake; slap them on a 327; you get one amount of power; take the exact same parts and slap them on a 350, you get more. The 350 wins. Duh. (I gotta find a way to type "duh" the way my daughter says it, the blond California girl way)

 

Why screw with a 327??? Um a little something called RPM's Sure the 350 will have more torque but the 327 will run up to 8K without hesitation. Screw the bashers (350 are gay, sorry but just because everyone does it doesn't mean it's cool) If you really want to have fun build a Chev 302 with the 327 (just put a 283 crank in the 327 and hello Mr. 302 Chevrolet) The 302 chev can handle upwards of 10K RPM's (gotta love the 3" stroke).

Otherwise go for the 406c.i. those engine are fun trust me I know!!!!

Later, Garrett

 

The 69 302 was "rated" at 290 HP. The 70 LT-1 was "rated" at 375 HP. Same air cleaner, same carb, same intake, same cam, same heads, and same exhaust. Now we all know the 302's ratings were a bit sandbagged; it was probably really closer to 325 HP. So... for equal dollars, what would you rather have? 325 HP, or 375 HP? Hmmmm...... this is really tough...... let me step outside and consult my financial adviser and see what he has to say....

It's always fun to read the comments of people who have absolutely no hands-on experience with those old motors whatsoever, and all this stupidity about "Oh yeah, you can spin it up to 8000 RPMs".... from people who have never had anything with any more RPM capability than a TPI motor. Ever had an alternator fan explode? I have. It went right through a hood. Ever had a clutch disc explode? I have. It went right through the aluminum bell housing like it wasn't even there, and put a nice gash in the floorboard. I thank the Lord regularly that it decided not to go through my feet. People with no experience don't have any idea what it really takes to effectively use that sort of potential.

The difference in "RPM potential" between a 327 and a 350 is negligible. I would put it at less than 400 RPM difference in the RPM of the HP peak between otherwise identical 327s and 350s, with a 7% lower value for the 327. I guarantee, it's not enough different that the 327 will win the race, or even run equal; that's why we all quit building them. They lost!!!

I don't have to read articles, or ask a bunch of my elderly relatives, or any of that to find out about 302s and 327s and 350s. I was there. And most of what I see posted here about them is pure fantasty and hallucination and gratuitous self-abuse. There's like 3 people who post regularly on these boards that actually know about those motors from personal experience when they were the current GM product, and none of the rest of them are represented yet.

 

Well if you are not including me in those 3 people you need to make it 4. I have had experience with a 350 (who hasn't) TPI, carbed' and turbo'd. I have driven 327's (not as many as a 350) and they are quicker through the RPM's than a 350. And my all time favorite drive is in a 1969 Z/28 with a factory 302 (The 302 was "rated" at 290 but they were closer to 350HP, but all were different).

I may be younger than a lot of guys on here but I've been around cars since before I can remember, (My dad was the orginal CamaroFreak ). And the reason I say 350's suck is because too many people build them and think those motors are street gold. The Gold Chev. street engine is a 427 hands down. I'm not talking about the ZL-1 (not enough of them made to be considered a true street engine) and "a 454 is a truck engine"!!!

I have also shattered a clutch. I have picked up a crankshaft and bearings up off the road before too. I've picked shards of rocker arms out of oil pans before too.

But maybe I'm just a 20 year old punk that's full of **** and vinegar, but I have had experience with cars and engine's (rebuilt my first engine when I was 14, and guess what it was that's right a 350 )

Later, Garrett

 

It's not like all these engines disappear when 1980 rolls around though.......

 

Then you realize the motor could be an L79 327 which came with 375 hp. Also will the short stroke of a 327 makes good torque and high RPMs. I have seen mildly built 327s with a 8300 Redline... If you get a 327 with 2.02 double humps you have a kick-*** motor. I am building a 327, It is a factory 300 hp motor with 68,000 miles. I would take a 327 over a 350 any day. We got two later 1970s 350 blocks in the garage to be rebuilt but I took the 327. 23 cubes is made up in other ways on the motor...

 

Then I realize that a L79 didn't actually put out anywhere near 375 HP. Go build yourself one someday and see what you get. I have no idea how they came up with that number, but it's raw unadulterated BS. Those motors run good but not that good.

And of course, even if it did put out 375 HP, if you put the same parts on top of a 350 short block, you'd get about 7% more, or about 405 or so.

I dare you..... build 2 short blocks, one a 327 and the other a 350; pick your choice of heads, cam, carb, exhaust, etc; and one at a time, dyno each short block with any set of peripherals you choose. I guarantee you the 350 will produce more HP and more torque, every time, at every RPM, no exception. The 327 will lose. That's why all of us old farts quit building 327s when we started being able to get our hands on 350s; it wasn't because the 327 was better.

There's no way to make up 23 cubes if everything else is equal.

You take the 327, I'll take the 350, I'll wax you. It's physically impossible to turn out otherwise.

 

Ok deal, I take my factory 300 hp 327 and you take my 75' stock 350 with 2 barrel and 882 heads and we'll go at it ok?....Point taken with your info, But I am just partial to 327s and love them, plus I like being different

 

better not stop at the motor RB unless you are talking about competeing on a dyno....seems to me the tranny and gears , and the way the car is setup would have alot to do with this race....7% isnt alot of margin......yes the 350 will produce more hp and torque...but 7% could be lost in the choice of a stall converter..And here in corn country ..there is a large demand for the 327 by the stockers.

I say each his own...myself I had a nice fresh virgin 400ci..I sold it to a kid for$75..he is gonna put it in an Elcamino....I chose the 327 because it was cheaper for me to build...period.
Now bore that 327..and you get a little closer...Torque is where I notice the big difference..my 94 has the LT1...power at 3200rpm...my 327 was just getting started at 3200rpm..
lets see, whats 7% of 100 ? 7 thats not a whole lot ...I guess it is if you are a million $ prostock driver.....not for a cornhead like me ..... Lets not forget the Driver influence here..

 

Then why would anyone build a 350 instead of a 400? Why would anyone build a ****ing small block?

If all is the same? It never is, so if I had an engine with a 2.36 inch bore and a 10 inch stroke (350c.i.), with all of the the same parts the 10" stroke on the 350c.i. would beat the 327. Cubes isn't all that wins races, and it's not the only important thing when choosing what to build.

I'm not trying to bash anyone here I just want you to realize that the engine with more cubes will not always win if the set-up is equal.

How about a 70's 262 v-8 vs a 262 V-6 (4.3) the 4.3 would smoke it and it has less cylinders, but they have the same displacement and set-up, that doesn't seem right?

Later, Garrett

 

At least there are some people on my side here

 

I'm not on anybodys side....I thought i was buying a 350 when I got my 327..hence the screen name...Im happy with the 327....the only reason I am building it instead of the 400 is I already have the forged crank and pistons....saving me money on the rotating assembly. Once again..to each his own...any smallblock can be built tough. Just depends on how much money you want to spend.....people here are just trying to point you in a direction" to get the most bang for your buck",,later..

 

a question Ive often asked myself when this argument comes up....time after time..

 

my first car was a 66 chevyII l79 327/350. pretty quick, shifted it around 6800 ,thats where the power quit ,duel point distributor out of a vett or z/28, switched to a gm solid cam for the 302. it was fun to drive but i'd rather had bigger engine ,i got beat by 350 camaros, never a ford or mopar with equall or similar engine ,but all the big blocks walked all over me. the 327 nor 302 isn't the equall of a similar 350 and never will be. if they were so all mighty people would be building them. there's nothing wrong with building somethings that a bit off from the norm, but you have to keep in mind the limitations of the package you're putting together. if less stroke equalled more power the little 289 would win hands down, 4" bore and 2. whatever stroke.

 

Why must you tear apart 327's everytime somebody asks about them? It's funny how you think that a 327 can't make any power so I guess you didn't see the article "The Iron Butterfly" in the December 2002 issue of Chevy High Performance? I guess 408 HP and 400 lb-Ft out of .030 327 with a roller cam, mildly ported double-hump heads and flat top pistons with a compression ratio of 9.1:1 isn't making any power and it would be such a waste of time to build it. I'm sure a 350 with the same stuff on it would make 30 more horse, but why would you bash a 400HP 327, that in my opinion is a very mild buildup (small cam, Factory heads, Where's the compression?) How much power would it make with AFR heads and a bigger cam and 11:1 compression? You keep saying that people stopped building 327's because 350's are so much better, well if that's the case then why doesn't everyone just build an LS1?........Oh wait it's only a 346 so ur big bad 350 is gonna make 1% more power. So just keep discouraging everybody that wants to build a 327. By the way bring on your 350 with 30 more horse than me and I'll shift faster than you or maybe jet my carb better, or ................Just stop dissing the 327 already because you are starting to sound like a broken record man. If you have a 327 build it. If you have any questions just ask me not this guy that has a 305 screename.....ok?

 

Are you referring to me? I hope not because I am all for 327s! Would it be allright if I PMed you sometime about your 327 swap, because I am swapping mine in June, Thanks

 

Have I ever said a 327 can't make power? Can you find the quote?

What I have said, time and time again, is that a 327 os a perfectly good motor; but every penny you spend on one, gets you less than spending the same penny on a larger motor. The 350 in particular is so cheap and plentiful that it makes no economic sense whatsoever to waste money on a 327 (or a 305, for that metter) once you have to work on the short block.

If you have a large-journal 327, it costs less than $50 to turn it into a 350, if you have to buy crank turning and pistons anyway. So in your typical 300 HP street motor, you would do whatever you're going to do to the heads, cam, exhaust, and so on; and you come up with 300 HP. Right? 300 HP isn't too bad, right? a 327 will do that just fine. right? But.... if you go to the junkyard and get a junk 350 crank and turn that instead, and buy a set of 350 pistons instead of 327 pistons, you get about 7% more HP. So you could get a 327 for your $2000 or whatever; or you could get 321 HP for $2050. That's $50 for 21 HP. Our normal rule of thiumb is that if you can get HP for less than $20/HP, it's a good deal. So it would seem that changing from a 327 to a 350 is the absolute cheapest HP you can buy. What's wrong with telling people that? Am I making some kind of mistake?

It's the same situation with a 305. Perfectly good motor on its own. As long as you don't have to rebuild the short block take it and run with it, make it do the best it can. The minute you have to touch the short block the situaiotn changes. In that case, you get a 15% hit by stepping up to a 350. So instead of a 300 HP 305, you spend the exact same money on everything else, and buy a junk 350 block and bore that instead of the 305 block, and voilà, 15% more HP. If you have to pay $100 for you rjunked 350 block, it's the same $2.50 or less per HP bargain. You'd have to be wearing blinders to miss that.

It's a matter of moving dollar bills out of the way to pick up dimes. Most of us don't have unlimited $$$$ to spend on this hobby; so we like to get the most we can out of every $ we spend. Cubic inches is how you can multiply your money. The more inches, the more you get out of each $.

I've been building motors for longer than probably 85% of the people on this board have been alive. I've seen lots of stuff come and go; lots of magazine articles; and lots of people who spent wads and wads of cash trying to be "different", but still didn't go fast. Sinking money into a small motor is among the best ways I know of to run up a big tab and not go fast.

So that masterful article you read.... how many HP would they have come up with if they had used the longer stroke crank?

The LS1 thing is also a bit different in 2 other ways. Go buy a junk one, and tell me if you can get it for anywhere near what you can buy a junk 350 for. And, a 327 or 305 uses the same heads, same cam, same exhaust, same accessoriers, etc. etc. which makes it a very easy and cost-effective swap, but the LS1 doesn't.

And if you can actually shift faster than me (which is of course possible but I very seriously doubt, I've had quite alot of practice you know), you'll go that much faster with a motor that makes more power.

It's all about HP per $$$. I don't diss 327s, I simply advise people that they will get more motor for their hard-earned $$$ if they make a wiser decision. If you call that "discouraging", then I guess I'm "discouraging", just like I would "discourage" somebody from paying $5000 when they can buy an identical car for $4000. So I will not stop "discouraging" people from making poor decisions on what to do with their money. That's what this BBS is here for, is to help people not make disappointing mistakes.

 

I'd build a 327 just for the point of saying I have a 327 ;D

I had one for $100, but I sold it...grr

 

OK, OK, OK enough of the agruing, I have a easy agreeable solution, why don't we all just build 400's.

Some people say build a 327 becasue everyone builds 350's, why not build a 400 becasue everyone builds 350's?

Other people say build 350's becasue they have more cube's. Well guess what SBC has more cube's than a 350?

I know mine was well worth the time and money 383 horse and 456 torque for around $1800 (Ok there were some favors on parts prices but nothing carzy)


Later, Garrett

 

Why not just build a nice Iron Duke engine? That way, you won't have to worry about a V-8. The only aftermarket block costs a measly $2500. . That would be something to talk about!

Brandon

 

84 ain't that what i said? build a 2.5 and show off your engine and HP building skills and as a side benifit it would truely fit into the "being differant" area and not another SBC. want a real challange try making HP with a 5HP briggs engine while not breaking any parts.

 

Sorry! But then that would fall under the whole meaning of this thread. HP per $ thing. RB stated something like $20 per HP for a 350. Building a 2.5 will probably be like $50 per HP.

 

This post has kept me entertained!

Eric

 

SJ 327
forged crank
6" rods
low comp. pistons
ported track 1's
converted victor jr. efi
T-76

 

I think I've had enough of this one.