So I'm planning to swap a GN/TTA 3.8L Turbo engine w/A/C into my camaro (after a nice set of SFCs, of course!) which has the pitiful 3.1L V6 and no A/C, anyways I need to plan to know how much money this is gonna cost me, here is what I have figured so far:

Used Working Complete GN Motor: $2000
700R4 V8 Transmission: $350
TCI adapter plate for 700R4: $100
TTA Wiring Harness: $400
V8 Springs: $220
Buick FWD Heads & components: $?
Custom Headers: $650
A/C Accesories that I'm missing: $150

GN Motor Mounts Should work fine since I have the ASCD SS Hood...right? I think my V6 gauges should work for this? do I need to upgrade to a V8 radiator?

so am I missing anything?

 

Actually you will not be able to use the GN motor mounts. I have heard that you have to use TTA mounts which aren't in production. However there is a company online which makes custom mounts. You need custom headers and Y-pipe, you do need the V-8 radiator. You shouldn't need the V-8 springs. You will also need a modified ECU. There is a good article on this site https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/faq/thirdgen.shtml

There is an article on the technical aspect and parts for what you are wanting to do. You'll also need a different serpentine setup than the GN uses.

You've got alot of work ahead of you. But I believe you will be satisfied with the results.

 

just an idea, but it might be easier to use a 200-4r trans that they used in the 89 turbo trans am... This way you could use the associated factory components... Also, $300 for a 700r4 is a little low... expect at least 7-800 for a good rebuild

 

I looked at that possibility, but from what I understand, I'd have to have a custom driveshaft made, and buy some other hard to find TTA specific parts..most junk yards (and thirdgenresource) sell 700r4's for $350 or so, but your right I should probably get a rebuilt one for reliability's sake...and according to that tech article, the 700r4 is stronger than the 200r4? (even though its better suited for the 3.8's turbo)

really? I understood that you could but the engine sat 2" higher than it does with the TTA/custom mounts...does anyone have anymore info on this?

 

if his car is a 92, he already has a V8 radiator

(look up the part numbers if you doubt)

 

sweet, I've never heard that before, but it would make sense since you can install the wonder bar on the 3.1Ls

is this true for all 90-92 cars or just the 92s?

 

all 90-92 cars recieved the same radiator no matter which engine is in it

 

Then that means my RS is a 89?! Man nothing on that car matches. I dont even believe the VIN anymore.

 

Hey I can easily be wrong on the motor mount thing. It is just my understaning that the mounts won't bolt up to our cars.

Actually though the part number I think is in the article that I linked to.

I am interested to know if they do or not. If someone else has any experience with this I'd love to know.

 

If what he says is true, than maybe someone just swapped the radiator on your RS, I'd believe that before anything else...

 

don't forget to figure in an adapter plate if you plan to use a 700r4... the 3.8 has a BOP bellhousing if I am not mistaken...

 

I believe you are correct...but I already got it figured in...I'd like to know everthing I'm gonna need to use FWD 3.8 LeSabre Heads...and how much its gonna cost...

 

Okay so basically your gonna put 7 grand into a car. How much did your car cost you in the begining and how much can you sell it for now? If its a decent thirdgen, say 2500. So in the end your gonna have 9500 in this car. You can buy a real turbo trans am or grand national for that kinda money.

www.turbobuick.com

there are people selling GN's, Turbo Regals, and TTA on that site all the time. You should really think this through before you go dropped 7 grand into a motor swap and then your only running 13-14 second times because your broke and cant afford to buy a boost controller, bigger turbo, intercooler, etc etc. If it was me and I was determined to have a turbo vehicle, for the money your talking I would want a car that was factory with the equipment.

But its your car, your money. You might rethink having someone do the swap for you also. Thats what pretty boys who dont like getting their hands dirty do. :lala:

 

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On ebay in the last 12 months I saw 3 sub 60k mile TTAs sell for $10,500 or less. Keep your eyes open, you will find a good deal and save yourself a big headache if you are not handy enough to do the work yourself. If you are looking for a project to keep you busy then go with the swap but if you have to pay someone, you might as well pay for a real TTA with all of the correct components.

Zerogauge,
I think the pretty boy comment is kind of naive of you. Just because someone does not work on their car does not make them a pretty boy. Some people like to work on their car and others have more fun driving them than working on them. I have a FT job and don't have time to work on the car every night for a big project so when I get a chance to do car stuff I like to spend some time behind the wheel. I have a few friends who do all of their own work and they spend more time under the hood or on the phone with the parts store than they do driving their cars. To each his own but I think a blanket assumption about being a pretty boy is inappropriate. Would you like someone to call you a 'poor-boy' because you cannot afford to pay someone to work on your car.

 

So, the guy (1987 GN) with 3 low mile turbo cars is trying to tell us he isn't a pretty boy. Do you know how to do the work and just don't because of the lack of time or are you just using that as your cover up?

 

Basic maintenance I could do, basically anything you would have done at a quickie lube place (oil, transmission, rear end fluids, radiator flush) and replacing some components like radiators, alternators and batteries. Anything more difficult than that and it goes to the mechanic!

 

Id rather be judged by my skills then how much money I have any day of the week. You bringing money into the equation just shows the type of person you are.

Theres a difference between not having time to do something and not having the ***** to learn to do something. If you raise the hood of your car and someone asks you what something is or does and you say I dont know I paid to have that put on it, supposed to make it go faster I think. Then your a "pretty-boy". Plain and simple.

 

And your comments show the type of person you are. I have the ba!!s to learn something but usually lack the time plus I would not want to do any damage to a very low mileage car. I prefer to spend my time working at my job which permits me to keep buying cars, not working on the cars I use for pleasure. To each his own. I guess if that is your definition of pretty boy then I am a pretty boy.

 

I kinda see what 1987 GN is saying. If he does his own regular maintenance but doesn't tackle big projects I wouldn't say he is a pretty boy. It isn't like he is afraid to get dirty. he just may not have the time to do all his work.


Zerogauge, I am assuming that you do all your work around the house and stuff, right? Electrical, plumbing, roofing, yard work, etc...? If not aren't you then a pretty boy?

 

I'm not afraid to try something new. Once again the skills thing comes in. If you have the skill to work on your car great. If you dont have the skill, but you have been there done that and you know that more often then not your gonna crossthread a bolt instead of getting in there right. Best to pay someone to do the work.

I JUST HATE to see nice cars driven by people that know nothing about them. I guess its because I have more of a bond with my car then most people who just use it as transportation etc etc.

1987 GN - I'll tell you right now I'm jealous of the cars you have. I LOVE G-bodies(78-88). My favorite are Oldsmobiles. The FE3X Darth Vader Concept car is just beautiful in my opinion. The Grand National's and GNX's come next. You also said you can do the rountine maintenance on your car, thats great and definately qualifies you as not being a pretty boy. Your a car enthusiast not just some kid spending mom and dad's money.

I guess because I work for every inch, I'm critical of those more fortunate.

 

I understand what you mean and no hard feelings. I also work hard for everything I have. I am very blessed in my life but it has taken a lot of work too. I remember up until 5 years ago when I graduated college I lived on 34.83 per week for my part time job off-campus and ~$50 per week from my on-campus job. Things have a way of turning around and you look back and feel proud of what you endured.

I have a bond with my cars too, you ought to see me when I cover them in storage or take them for a ride. People would have me committed to a mental institution if they could. But as you said I am an enthusiast!

 

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zer0321, I wasnt directing the money thing to you. 1987 GN and I kind-of hijacked your thread. I see alot of kids come on here talking about this or that and it wont even be their car, its their dad's. No hard feelings. Good luck with whatever you decide to do with your car.

 

Here's a few things you'll need costs differentiate based upon the area of the country.
1. www.HRpartsNstuff.com they have two different sets of mounts(frame pads and engine). Get the ones that you can use with the 3.8 or the 4.1L's.

2. FWD cylinder heads, shouldn't cost more than $50 at the boneyard. Casting number can be found on www.turbobuick.com
Keep in mind that the compression will go up about .6 with the smaller chamber heads.

3.www.gmpartsdirect.com or www.johnsperformance.com they have the wiring harness, you can use the GN but it's a p.i.t.a. and becomes messy.

4.Special headers are not needed, you can use the GN headers.

5. Custom downpipe will have to be made when using the GN headers. ATR sells them in sections I believe(easier to bend and weld in(2.75in. is easier to fit than the 3in.) Or you can get in touch with Mease performance and if close to NJ he'll build you one on the car.6.Any tranny you get for $350 is not gonna last long behind that motor. Tpi motors are tourqey, but have nothing on these LC2's. A decent one can push 600lb/ft with the right setup.

6.Spohn sells a crossmember for the 200 4r(your best bet).

7.Injectors,fuel pump and turbo. The stockers are 28lb.er's they are strained even with the stock turbo pushing 20psi. Fuel pump walbro 340 or walbro 307 nothing less. Boost is addicting if $ is there look into a te-44 or a ta-49 you can use the stock d5 converter with little lag.

8. SFC's and tires. Radials do nothing for the rear of an F-body putting down 400 lb/ft.

9.Driveshaft may also need to be upgraded as well as the rear if you have a pegleg, open style.

10. ECM and chip should be part of the deal when getting the setup.

Being frugal and setting up a spending plan with a design of what you want the car to do I can see it done correctly for $4-4.5K. My advice is to try to get everything you can off of a GN. IC, harness, engine, trans, ECM, turbo, and anything else the guy wants to throw in.

Pete

 

You need to use 3.0 BOP FWD heads with the valve train to beable to use A/C

 

How did you figure you could get a TTA wiring harness for $400? If you know where one can be found as that price, let me know. Im doing the same sway right now, I pretty much know everything that is going to be required to pull it off.

 

I see them somewhat often at turbobuick.org, just post an ad in the wanted section....

 

how is it illegal if you pass the emission requirements for your year car?

if you need any info on the swap send me a PM, I didn't have time to read the entire thread, mainly due to you and 87Gn bickering :sillylol:

 

Ok I was gonna let this go but it's eating at me. Who would be spending 7K to run 14's? If you don't know what you're talking about please, don't open your mouth. The stock components are capable of 11 second runs, and that's a fact not speculation. Who needs a "boost controller" Watching Fast and the Furious I see? Again stock turbo can be brought into the 11's, it's been done. The stock intercooler is actually fine until mid-deep 11's then it becomes inefficient, stock injectors have been in the 11's as well(though I wouldn't recommend doing that often).

Sorry to sound like an ******* but don't discourage the guy with misleading information...the stock stuff is fine,IT'S ALL IN THE TUNING WITH THESE MOTORS, go browse turbobuick again and see all the mods some of those guys have and some of the ****ty times, then see some guys with half the mods running MUCH faster times...all in the tune of the car....

Case and point, my buddy's TTA-K@N filter,moroso front drag springs,Thrasher 108 chip,slicks,a transbrake, C16 race gas and 23#'s of boost 11.95@112.5 with a 1.62 60' time. Stock motor internally, stock turbo,intake,injectors,intercooler etc, valve covers were never off the car.

 

Yes, You should be able to run high 11's with a stock turbo setup. I ran 12.1 et's with a stock setup in a 3600lb buick with 23# boost and minimal tuning. You'll need a boost gage, Egt gage and a scan master to get it tuned so you don't damage the motor. A good flowing exhaust, down pipe and an adjustable waste gate are the other things you'll need to get to the 11's. GO Stealth and suprise some 5.0's. I think it would be worth the effort. Good luck. Tim

 

Tim, were you running alchy or race gas?