In the quest for more cubes and to make the car a "real" pontiac I am seriously warming up to this swap.

I hardly hear anyone talk about this upgrade since all F-bodies went with "corporate" (aka chevy) engines

This mod. was the rage with first & second gen TAs and 'Birds but has anyone on this board done this to a 3rd gen?


My research has come up with the following:

The engine WILL fit with 2nd gen. frame motor mounts which bolt right in. (under 50.00 & junk yard for frame mounts)

The 700 trans WILL bolt to the BOP bolt pattern with an adapter plate from TCI (45.00)

Serpentine belt kit w/ brackets from March (400.00)

The missing piece is headers: No one makes headers for this swap (yet?) They do for 1st and 2nd gens. though. It may be possible to start with a set of headers for 2nd gen. modify from there. OR spend some $$$ have a custom set of Lemon's headers made...

Any Feedback

 

I had a 455 in a 76 Firebird.I used to love to make 5.0`s cry.
There would be a few small things I can think of the alternater,
starter,fuel pump are all on the wrong sides,I don`t think a
700r4 would last very long.I couldn`t even guess on headers
and motor mounts.I wouldn`t expect a 7.5 rear end to hold up either.But if you could make it work I know you would love it.
Unfortunatly it would probably be easier and cheaper to build a
large stroker like a 427.

 

Thanks for the feedback:

March's serpentine belt kit puts the Alt. & PS pumpon the pass. side. I also have AC delete.

Car has Projection 4Di so mech. fuel pump would be deleted.

Starter location should be OK since the K-member is symetrical.

2nd gen motor mounts will work I spoke to Jim Bulter about this.

My 700 trans is upgraded and already living behind a STOUT 383 (472 LB/FT)

Rear is being upgraded to a Ford 9"

Just looking to go faster with Poncho Power. Car Craft did an awesome Big Block Comparison year and contrary to popular belief a 455 can be built for as much as a 454 Chevy. The Buick 455 is the most expensive big block to build about 1.5 times more than the Chevy or Pontiac.

 

I say go for it. Currently my brothers and I own 2 second gen T/As (77 & 78), 1 second gen Z28(350) and my GTA.

All the cars except for the 78 are original motors with bolt ons and we consider these our street cars, but the 78 has a 455 which we are finishing up the tuning on to bracket race it. The 455 is a great motor and even the mildest buildups make tons of power.

The 78 belongs to my oldest brother but it's a group effort for the next 1-2 years to get this car to go and compete with it. Afterthat my other brother and I plan on building a 400 cu.in. Pontiac motor and dropping it in a 82-83 Trans Am or 87-90 Formula.

I think it's a great engine swap and wish more people took this route with the 3rd gen Firebirds.

 

There is a company that makes headers for the swap (poncho motor in a 3rdgen) but I can't remember the name.

Beware though... that 455 weighs more than a Chevy big block, so you may wanna stiffen up the front suspension, unless turning is a second priority

 

Do a search, I almost did a 400/400 swap out of my old 76 Bonnie to the bird, but wouldn't have a ride durring the time .

A 200-4R will bolt right up having the B-O-P bolt pattern on the bellhousing. Make sure it is built up to handle Chief Many Horses & the rear is beefed up too. There are also many kits available to take care of the tv cable mounting.

You cain still use a 700-R4, but will need an adaptor plate to make it work.

 

An easier method for this, would be to contact 'High Performance Pontiac'.... as they have swaps being done like this by enthusiast's all the time.

I remember a few years back at Raceway Park's car show.... someone built a 360 Mopar with Tuned Port Injection (courtesy of Arizona Speed & Marine). Can you imagine if they built you an intake for the Poncho.... to adapt TPI, and then bolt on a Vortech (OMG)!!!

I know of a guy back in New York who put a 455 Pontiac into an 84 Camaro (why he did, I have no idea), but he installed a set of shorty headers.... then had the local muffler shop fabricate a Y-Pipe to connect to his Cat-Back exhaust....

 

Have a website???


Check this one out:

www.chiefmanyhorses.com

 

Sure;

www.highperformancepontiac.com

 

I was searching a local junk yard a while back and came across a 3rd gen firebird with a Pontiac 455 in it. An employee there said that it even runs. I think that it had stock exhaust manifolds on it. The engine was nice and clean. Looks like someone did the swap and then crashed the car shortly after. I'll be heading back to the junk yard sometime this week. If the car is still there, I'll take a better look at the exhaust.

 

ChiefMany Horses.com is the place. They have the headers and the mounting hardware. Dick Duclow is the man. Been working on my project 87 Camaro with Poncho 400 for three years now but getting nowhere fast, $$$$$. Indian Adventures has what you need.

 

Where you at bob8748 , I want to see your progress. See what could've been w/the Bonnies motor.

Plus I have the Bird running decently, had it up to Plain City & marysville last week getting parts.

 

wow Project. I didnt notice you were in Dayton! I'm about 15 minutes away next to Beavercreek. Hi neighbor. Not making any progress. This year has been an expensive one with other needs. Havent gave up though.
I'll shoot you an email.

 

What would be cool is an Oldsmobile 350 in a 3rd-gen. I wonder if it would work (?)....

 

Ummm... why an Olds?

 

Maybe he has a Rocket motor sitting around waiting for a worthy donor? Also let's him go to two different brand car shows
Just follow 90% of teh steps w/ Poncho motor swaps & substitute "Poncho" & Pontiac" w/"Olds"
bob8748, I'm on base now, was in Riverside (Page Manor) for 3yrs before that. I drove the brown 76 Bonnie w/big rust in the fenders for a while.

 

I did a search on my name in the motor swap frum, about 70% nvolve the Poncho motor swap LINK

 

I'm doing the 455 Poncho swap into my 87 TA, after a long debate about which route to go with the engine. I picked up a 455 shortblock from Pull-A-Part (going to use Edelbrock/JBP heads), along with the original TH400, for $100. It was in a 73 GP SJ. I'm using Indian Adventure engine mounts(they make longtube headers too), since they use the stock Chevy V8 frame mounts and that will allow me to lighten the car with a standard tubular K-member. The 455 is going to stay carbed for now, but it will definitely be "boosted" in some way, after I break in the motor. I'm either going with two turbos or an ATI D1 Procharger.

 

Don't forget to use a set of nice thick head gasket's if you're planning to boost.

I forgot about those Edelbrock heads for the Poncho's, do they come as direct 'stock' replacements (compression wise).... or are they shaved any?

 

I am going to try for 9:1 compression, max, and use the highest quality head gasket avaialble. I'm also going to use headstuds for extra durability. The Edelbrock heads are available in two different chamber sizes, the largest (and the one I'll use) likely being the 87cc. I'm new to Pontiacs, so I'll be checking with the experts (Butler, Nunzi, etc) for specifics.

 

have the block sonic tested before the buildup starts. If bad, you can always get a 400 block, bore .030 over, get a NEW 4.25" crank & **poof** 455

edit: inthe last few issues of HPP mag, they had stories on forced induction Pochos, especially a really sic straight 6 in a 1st gen.

 

Oh yeah!!! Brooklyn's own Nunzi is 'Da Man'!

Pontiac's are torque motor's, and don't really need to see high RPM (as traditionalist's say).... but we built one a few years back in a 76 TA, and didn't follow any 'stinkin' tradition!

We built a 455 Poncho for our 76 TA, and adapted a 301's Turbo from an early 80's TA (like it needed it, right).

Anyways.... she ran low 11's with the stock drivetrain (no stall, no race gearing etc...), so the Turbo did it's job (after we increased the ancient Turbo's boost that is).

 

Throw a couple more hints
Ken Keefer
http://pontiacdude.cc/

Paul Spotts
http://www.spottsperformance.com/

Was going to post what I'm doing... but maybe later.