I write to you all from that automotive insane asylum where crazy car fanatics dream up entirely destructive and over-the top concoctions of mass histeria. I have a 83 Z28 that I have dropped a 350 into, for now. I have decided to take my sweet time while enjoying the quaint 350, and rebuild a new motor for it. I have been tossing around the idea of dropping either a 396 or 427 in her. I would like any and all input that anyone has on this idea. I am especially interested in any aftermarket installations kits for specifically this. Kits or parts such as motor mounts, trans mounts, crossmembers, drive shafts, and anything else necessary for this. I would also like input on which engine, trans, rear end, and any other parts i should opt for this swap should i go through with it.... basically any and all information pertaining to this swap. I am not looking to hear about why I shouldnt do this because I am plenty aware of why I should do it, but come on.... you cant possibly say that you have never had the thought cross your mind of dropping one bad$$$ big block chevy into that bad$$$ f-body. Dont deny it.... If you honestly can, you arent a true chevy enthusiast...

 

Theres no kits you're on your own. Hooker does sell headers though but I'd probably fork out the cash for custom ones. Check out this site http://www.difftechnics.com/original.html he pretty much sums up all the fitment issues.

Before anyone can suggest anything else for ya what is your intentions for this car? Street? Street/Strip? Strip/Street? Strip?

 

All of the specific parts you mention do not need to be changed; at least not for fitment. Long-term survival, or performance optimization, might be a different matter however.

The things you need to concentrate on just to get the motor into the car and working are exhaust and accessories.

Do a search on this board. This topic comes up all the time. Quite a number of people have done it and even have full pictures, parts lists, etc. on sites of their own. It has been covered exhaustively in various posts. It is probably the single most popular swap for these cars except for 305 to 350, which IMHO isn't a swap, but rather merely a direct replacement with a bigger bore.

It takes exactly the same effort to put any non-tall-deck big block into one of these cars, since they're all the same externally (except for balance). There's no reason no to use the biggest one you can find. Why bother with a 396 or 427 when for the same work and money you can have a 454? and 454s are easier to find, since they came in ALOT of light trucks.

Stay away from tall-deck (larger truck) ones unless you are building a strictly single-purpose race car, as they create extra fit and accessory hassles.

 

Yea I will totally agree, unless radical engine modifications are to be made, such as high boost, a 427 should never be a bb. I wouldn't even hardly call it a bb, you need to be at the very least a 454, to be in true bb area.

 

I can honestly say I'd never drop in a big block...I race on road courses and don't want the weight up front. If that makes me a non-enthusiast in your book, I'll live with myself.

Now go figure out how to use the search button...

 

Do a search before anything. A moser rear end will hold up great, a turbo 400 that is built will hold the power. Be ready to put in a cage, or some really really good subframe connecters with non sticky tires. New radiator, electric fans, and full exhuast are a must. If you play to use any intake bigger than a performer, get a cowl hood. Hope you have fun, i know mine is.

 

all depends what your into, i drag a drive around on the streets, so if you have a big block with all aluminum top end it would likely weigh close to the same as a normall all cast small block....

thats why i went 615 merlin, aluminum heads up...

 

who would never call a 427 a bb?boy,i tell u,opinions may vary.i love my 427.u don't have to tie up a ton of money in them,and i can twist mine to 6500 and still have a tad left.try that with a 454 that u haven't refinanced the house on.i like the 454 also,but i just don't think that they are all that great.u should definitely get a fresh radiator,maybe a cowl hood or something to aid in extra cooling,the hooker super comps worked fine for me,and custom dual exhaust for starters.that would get u rolling,not to be launching on slicks of course,but to be able to drive and play with until u do the rest.:hail:

 

I think a 396 BBC would be a waste of time. why bother with a big block that has a smaller bore than a 400 small block?

 

Why a 396, you ask?

#1 - I already have one.

#2 - Ever compare BBC heads to SBC heads? Even oval ports (peanut ports excepted) are huge in comparison. My heads happen to be the best closed chambers they made. Same ones they put on 427's that year, in fact. Also, see #1 above.

#3 - In case you're thinking about some of the aftermarket SBC heads available to counter #2, see #1 above.

#4 - The weather was nice yesterday, so I drove the '57 around a bit. Even with the extra pounds to push around, it still moves out pretty good on the street (the net change from 350/TH350 to 396/TH400 was a gain of 75 pounds). Although there have been other changes made, and admittedly the 350 was hardly "optimized", the 396 is 2 sec faster in the 1320 than the 350 ever was. And the 396 is just as mild-mannered as the 350 was on the street.

#5 - Yes, I could build a SBC with more cubes and more power and less weight than the 396, but see #1 above.

#6 - The 396 block I've got can be bored to 4.250". That's a wee bit larger than a factory 400 SBC block can go to. And, #1 is something I can say about this block that I can't say about a crack-prone 400 SBC.

#7 - The '57 has to be faster than the Camaro. That's not negotiable. So, if the Camaro gets a 4.125"+ bore SBC, then the '57 has to get at least a 502. That would mean I'd have a 396 sitting around with nothing to put it in. Therefore, if/when the '57 gets the 502, the Camaro gets the 396. (Kinda relates back to #1 above.)

 

well,i guess that just about sums things up aroung here.if he has #1,then thats enough said.i wish you the best with it.i can't to finish up these wirng knick knacks so that i can fire mine up.is the passenger side harness needed alone with the computer if you swapped over to a carb settup?or just the tan wire for the fuel pump relay?

 

Oh, forgot #8 (really belongs more like #4, but then I'd have to change all the following #'s) - Stock SBC rod length = 5.70". Except stock 400 SBC rod length = 5.565".

Stock BBC rod length = 6.135".

And we all know what people will go through to get longer rods...

Could also add #9 - Clearance problems with 3.76" or 4.00" stroke and high-lift cam = none.

 

Droping a big Block in a third Gen is not to hard in itself, but you end up replacing every component in your drivetrain plus many other things. Fuel,chassy,braking. It can get expensive unless you go with a low output BB.

 

$'s/HP is not linear.

 

Why have a low output BB which will cost you more money to built then a mild small block? That would be stupid. But then again, low output can be many different things is many different peoples eyes. Now, i truthfully, would rather built a 400 SBC than a 396, because the hp you lose in the 400 SBC makes up for the weight and PITA factor of puttin in a BB. But then again, thats just me, as i will def. stay with my big block. Now if i coudl only get it tuned right...and my gauges working....

 

This is getting a little off from the originator's question, but...

I'm not sure what people call "low output". I don't think of 425 HP and 400 lb-ft torque "low", but it is by some people's standards.

If I didn't have a 396 right now, I wouldn't go out and pay $3-4k for one. I'm not sure I'd spend that for a 427 even. 454's are considered the "small" BBC's these days, for those going out for mongo power. However, if you're looking to keep the TH700 and 10-bolt, you're not after mongo power.

But, BBC says "torque", so you need to have torque-handling capacity behind it. So I'm thinking along the lines of TH200-4R and 12-bolt.

Now, consider the SBC alternatives. 400's are getting more common as aftermarket blocks become available. Add even larger bores and strokes, and the "big" SBC's are in sight. However, they are typically more "trick", requiring specialty parts, which just drives the cost up. And, they need the power-handling capacity mentioned in the paragraph above.

So, where does that leave us? Spend $4000-$6000 for a SBC that I don't have, plus the aforementioned support staff? Or, spend a little getting the BBC that's on-hand installed (exhaust and cowl hood the main things) plus the same aforementioned support staff? Any SBC option would require I start from scratch (even for a 383), and I'd probably end up needing exhaust upgrades and cowl hood, anyway. But, I've got the BBC, even if it is the "baby of the family".

Daily-driver BBC 3rd gens are rare - for a reason. So far, only 2 people have responded to my poll about swaps saying they have a BBC in their 3rd gen, so one could argue BBC swaps of any kind are rare (non-scientific poll notwithstanding). If I go through with this insanity, the Camaro will have to stay a daily driver, so that means the power output isn't going mongo. And, anyone who's a first-timer and is considering a BBC swap should either have a lot of time, a lot of money, or their head examined.

Maybe more than one of those... :lala:

 

well,you can say what you want to about me.i want to have something different than the same old 355,383,or 406.yet,i don't want the 454,either.the smaller bb can wind tighter than the 454's.i guess it all boils down to opinions and what you want though.we have ruined the main topic of this post.i think whatever bb you choose,it will be something different in a thirdgen,especially as a daily driver.

 

From the original post, I quote:

"I have been tossing around the idea of dropping either a 396 or 427 in her."

"...one bad$$$ big block chevy into that bad$$$ f-body."

The idea of a baby-ish BB fitting the latter description has certainly been successfully challenged.

As for smaller engines winding tighter and therefore being "better" - please, let's not go there. Being short-stroke has next to nothing to do with its RPM capability.

 

ok,lets see you take a 454 and try to twist around 6500 rpm out of it then.i have no argument with what you're saying about the smaller cubes,if you have the cash flow,bigger is always better,if its done right.i just choose the 427 over the 454,lets say,being built on a working man's money.lol.either way,it still looks damn good in a thirdgen f-body!!

 

Aha, so it's looks we're after.

In that case, it doesn't matter what BBC you put in there. Tunnel ram with dual carbs sticking through the hood, fat meats sticking out of the rear fenderwells, doesn't matter how it runs. All we want is "the look".

FWIW, finding and building a 427 that revs to 6500 RPMs will cost you more and make less power than finding and building a 454 that revs to 6500 RPMs. Building a 454 that revs to 6500 RPMs is a piece of cake. The main issue is the valve train, and that's the same problem whether a 427 or 454 (or 396, for that matter). That assumes you'll be using good rods & forged pistons, and the 454 is the BBC version of the 350 - the parts for it are the cheapest out there because of volume. And, like RB said a long time ago, a 454 is easier to find than a 396 or 427 (unless you happen to already have a 396 or 427...).

Oh, well, never mind. TMI for the original question.

 

i have to disagree with that theory.all of the stock bottom end 454's that i've seen are prone to spin bearings and throw rods anywhere from 5500 to 6000 rpm's.that is not so with the shorter stroke big blocks.as far as being cheaper to build,that just ain't so,yeah,there is a ton of stock replacement parts for them,but that takes you back to the point that i just mentioned.bit in my previous post , i stated,"if you have the cash flow,build the 454 or even bigger for that matter because there is no replacement for displacement".it boils down to what you want,how much money do you have,and whats available to you.what was the topic on this post again?i apologize for taking it in another direction.

 

When you talk about daily drivers, mine is right next to one, just wish i had a smaller stick for less lope And to tell ya the truth, I cant really feel that much extra weight up front. As for just a cowl hood and exhuast, i wish, he he.. But if your puttin in a BBC, i dont care what the size, I, at 17, love it, and def. love paying the insurance for a 3.1 V-6.. he he

 

depends what you got in a motor and how it was designed to work, we shift my 412 small block at 7800 rpm....no prob, it gets up there real fast....with no probs..and people say long strokes don't turn, anything can turn, depends how mild or wild this guy wants to go..

 

I got a 454 for my malibu, plans for an 8 second street ride, your going to spend a lot more money on a 427. but if you just stay stock, you could probably be patient and find out complete I'm shure for a grand tops. good motors. but the differnece is that more parts are made for a 454 than a very odd 427. my big block revs out at 6700 rpm. put a good roller cam in there. tell you what, just put 427 valve covers on a 454


but I know where ur coming from, I wanted to put a 327 in my malibu, till I woke up one day with a goal of 8 seconds

 

Mines a daily driver


http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/487725

 

This can be done. I got the idea from one of the "roddin" magazine several years ago. They did one and listed all the part numbers and sources for them. I have the list and will see if i can get the month/yr and name of the magazine. The 85 camaro Berlinetta coupe I have is a 2.8 v6 w/auto matic transmission. I Have a friend who is building me a 700r4 for street/strip/cruising, and i'm still looking for an engine. I know this is no easy project, but when finished it will be worth it. P.S. As for the stock mounts being too weak, you can always do it the GM way, use a piece of chain bolted to the block and to the chassis. (they had a recall for broken motor mounts on my 67 Camaro and that was the fix)

 

Nobody is saying it can't be done. Several have done it, a couple have websites with details and/or links to the mag articles.

There's nothing weak about 3rd gen motor mounts that would require a chain. They are a completely different design than the ones requiring the chain/cable retrofit.

 

Thanks for the info! I re-read my article and it says the stock mounts are ok, as long as you don't go over-board w/hp. It also recommends a qt Chevelle oil pan to clear the crossmember. If you use the stock v8 front springs, the add'l weight lowers the car to an almost perfect height, just needs re-aligned. This article was from "HOT ROD" magazine, may 1998. Anybody who's done this swap, with any additional tips or problems, please let me know (other than cooling system, fuel delivery, and exhaust fabrication). Since my Camaro is a coupe, what about frame supports, are they going to be necessary? Great to know about all you other F-body "heads" out there! BIG BLOCK Camaro's forever!!

 

Thanks for the info! I re-read my article and it says the stock mounts are ok, as long as you don't go over-board w/hp. It also recommends a qt Chevelle oil pan to clear the crossmember. If you use the stock v8 front springs, the add'l weight lowers the car to an almost perfect height, just needs re-aligned. This article was from "HOT ROD" magazine, may 1998. Anybody who's done this swap, with any additional tips or problems, please let me know (other than cooling system, fuel delivery, and exhaust fabrication). Since my Camaro is a coupe, what about frame supports, are they going to be necessary? Great to know about all you other F-body "heads" out there! BIG BLOCK Camaro's forever!!

 

calm down..lol

You need a very good exhaut guy to make the swap nice

edit:doh
Daz

 

here`s what I did about the steering pump, it`s a divorced pump, it can`t get a long with the resivor it came from a 85 s-10 with a L-4 iron duke. the small block pump pulley sat right on the gear box.

 

I also dream about going with a BBC for my thirdgen but I am thinking a 496 would be "sweeter" than a regular 454 . I just want to make sure that the big block that I do build gives me more power than my current setup. The funny thing is there is this strictly "race" car with a BBC than goes to the track quite frequently and my daily driven Camaro with a small block is getting better 1/4 times than his

 

man,this big block swap sure picks up the morale around here.you would think that it has never been done before.well,everyone have fun with it,because i sure will,and as a once famous person said,"HAPPY MOTORING."

 

Thanks again for the "tips" on this swap. My plans are for a daily driver, I just wanted something different. What can I say, I like to show my tailights to mustangs and **** burners!!! It's at the body shop now, getting ready for paint (gold metallic and green stripes, again,something different). I'll try to post pictures as it moves along.