Thats alright Tony let him call bull****, whats he got to run aside from his mouth anyway.

 

in order to make that horse power out of a v6 what kinda cam and pistons do you run and injection?

 

He's running a 214-210 cam and JE pistons(keeping 8:1 compression I believe).

These motors do not need a big cam to make big power.. In fact going too big of a cam will kill everything.

 

not sayin you dont run the numbers just sayin i dont believe your gasmileage numbers

 

214/210@.050 duration roller cam and JE pistons .020 overbored(3.820 bore)

Stock sequential fuel injection system with modified injector drivers in the stock computer running 83# injectors and chips from www.turbotweak.com

 

are you guessin on the mileage like you do the horses or is that a proven number...

 

Well if you dont belive me then you really wont belive the turbo buick guys that stuck with the 200-4R overdrive trans. Those guys are in the 9's and getting 25mpg or better.

I went with a TH400 cause I wanted reliablity, and felt the tradeoff in fuel economy and power loss was worth knowing I will be able to drive home from the track every time.

 

im not sayin its not totally impossible to create alot of horses and still get some mileage but as "tony " said earlier in this thread something about 25 mpg and 11 sec times i just cant buy that unless its a nitros fed car ....

 

whoa, there tuff guy, better be careful who exactly you want to line up with, you may call out more than you expected. Now on to the second part, read all of my posts, i have not doubted that that much power could be made. nor have i doubted that you could run that kind of time. So posting these videos of you racing just wasted a bunch of storage space and bandwidth for whoever decided to download them. The real point is this, I dotn believe, now will I start believing, that you can achieve 600hp and still get 20-25 mpg without an overdrive transmission. Just dont see it happening. You are not gonna convince me either. Now as far as "calling" me or the general out, thats pretty funny. You know, getting as hot around the collar as you are right now, doesnt make you more convincing nor does it scare me into believing you. The general has stated as have I that we think the 20-25 mpg thing is . Also, the real point of the argument, the one that I got into anyway, wasnt about mpg, it was about cost. It isnt cheaper, it isnt faster. All I can say is this, I respected you both until the "calling" out started. From then on I could tell what I was dealing with. Not worth my trouble, call back when you experience the real world of hot rodding.

 

Thats a proven number, I did alot of long trips last year with the car and for fun I decided to keep track of my milage vs. amount of fuel used. I was very surprised to see it was averaging 20-21mpg on the highway. This was a figure repeated over and over again, as at that point I was taking trips of upwards of 500 miles. I never tried to calculate street driving.

I will admit that my milage has probrobly fallen off a little bit scince going to 3.42 gears over the 3.08 gears I used to run. I'll probrobly recalculate it this summer after my wedding when I have some time.

 

thanks man thats what ive been tryin to get across the whole damn day...LOL

 

No tuff guy here, nor am I getting hot around the collar. Just getting tired of people saying "you can't do that" or "that wont work". Usually from people who havent tried it themselves. I'd be more than happy to show anybody what I've done and how I've done it, which btw isnt unique in the turbo buick community. It's very common for a stockish TTA to run in the 11's. My old car(#861)went 11.99@113 w/1.63 60ft - the only mods were a K&N filter, gutted cat, 26x11.5x16 ET Streets, some 112 octane, and a $25 thrasher 108 chip. And there are guys that have gone as fast as 11.6 with those same mods. Thats a pretty much stock car that even you guys can belive gets 25+ mpg, yet nets 11 second slips.

My car just takes it to a little bit more of an extreme - whats so unbeliveable about that?

 

Ok, here are my problems. Now its not a stock motor, its stockish. OK stock motor means, stock cam, heads, pistons, intake, wiring, computer, chips, you name it. Obviously you dont fit into this category. The real problem is this, I do have experience with these engines. I've in fact done some pretty serious work on a GN before, and worked on many here and there. I know exactly what they can do. Matter of fact, I just worked on one a few months ago, it was a 1978 regal, the first one to get the 3.8 with turbo. Has a quadrajet carb, the whole deal. Interesting setup really. Now onto fact again. That motor is not going to be "stock" motor to get 600-650 hp with that turbo. Its gonna take a little bit more than that. And with that little bit more, I just dont see you getting 20-25 mpg. What rear gears are you running? What RPM's are cruising at when youre driving 70? Ijust dont see it happening. Now, as far as being jerks,

TTA850 Thats alright Tony let him call bull****, whats he got to run aside from his mouth anyway.

I never once said that your cars were slow, nor did Isay that your cars didnt go as fast as you said they did, because Ive seen a lot of those cars go that fast. Likewise I dont expect a personal attack on myself. You can read about my car, but does that mean that is the one in my garage that I race? Hmm think about it. Now, as far as talking crap on my car. As least it doesnt sound like a POS Ric*r. Sorry man, the v6 thing isnt that cool. If you find a TTA, go for it. If you spend the money and time to put that engine in a TA or camaro, you probably have more money than brains and are just trying to even it out.

 

AMEN

 

 

Who made a personal attack at you? My comment was in reference to thegeneral's quick decision to call . I'm sorry if you took offense it. I will admit I have a liking for TTA's, and it shows I own 3 original TTA's aside from my GTA and will stand up for what the little motor can do.

I was running 3.08 gears the last two years, and was cruising around 2800 rpm at highway speeds(65-70). I recently switched to 3.42 gears and have been turning closer to 3000 rpm at 60-65mph. I generally dont like to cruise with the motor over 3000 rpm, maybe it's just me but I feel any more than that is just putting unde wear on the motor and it is a low rpm motor anyway, I shift at 5200-5400 and go through the traps at 5800rpm.

 

well he has the same idea i do about you gettin that mileage outta that car and runnin those numbers i also never said you couldnt run that but still find it hard to believe the gas mileage your sayin your gettin without a overdrive and runnin lower gears in the rear .....dont get me wrong i think turbos are a great thing and as soon as we get the cash up were gonna be hopefully doin the turbo on the ol 350 in the wifes camaro ....but im not gonna be sayin i can get good mileage out of it either .......

 

I picked mine up bone stock, complete from pan to front accessories and he included the 200r4 tranny (which I am selling cause TCI makes an adaptar for the chevy motor to bolt to a buick engine) all for 700 bucks. If you look around there are cheap 86-87 GN engine's everywhere. Some of them are short blocks, some are long blocks or complete. They sell ported gn intakes for 240 bucks so it wouldn't be to hard to just start with a long block. Either way this isn't gonna be an expensive swap for either V8 twin turbo or V6 single turbo but I can tell you right now being in a club with 5 different Twin Turbo V8 cars, they are more expensive to make 650hp then the 86-87 GN engine. I have seen single turbo Gn's running some ridiculous times just as much as I have seen TT V8's.

 

And at this point in the game, gas mileage is not one of the reasons I bought this car or motor. lol. So when I hear debates about gas mileage and performance it seems kinda funny because those 2 words just don't fit in the same sentence. Now hybrid car and gas mileage do. I need one of those cars damn it. Premium 93 gas just jumped up to 2.12 here in Michigan!

 

I meant to say in the last post that this "Isn't going to be a CHEAP swap" Sorry

 

Damn this thread blew up lol

I never quoted 25mpg. In fact the orginal poster did, I said 25 was a big stretch.

Also, someone was quoted as working on a 78 or 79 turbo buick, TOTALLY different motor lol Anything you know about them you can throw out because the 86-87 and 89 motors are WAAAY different.

As far as the TTA times in the 11's I believe I said stock MOTOR, meaning no motor mods.

Oh well...have fun..enjoy guys

BTW I got the motor in and running for less than $3K.....not exactly expensive...not cheap either.

 

BTW I'm done arguing about all this.

We all have our opinions which is great, it's pointless to debate any further.

 

under 3k huh, is that a used engine?

 

of course lol

 

LoL.

 

and i never said he couldnt run his quarter mile times and i know you can make some good power with the gn motors and turbos and a v8 with the turbos can too but .....i really dont care how much gas mileage anyone can get ...LMAO....were payin 1.85 a gallon for the cheap stuff here now and its still risin but its all about the horse power anyway ...i just get a kick out of people sayin they have 300, 400, 500, or 600 hp ...without a dyno sheet to prove it ...lmao because with uder 500 horse power you can run below a 11 if you have proper gearing and know how to drive ......

 

Ooook. All I mentioned was gas mileage and performance (high performance) shouldn't be a goal at this point in the game. LoL.

I didn't mention any 1/4 mile times or GN motors or V8 motors and their power, dyno sheets or horsepower ratings. LoL. Tony is right, you love to put words in people's mouths.

 

Im not sure that the general was addressing you or not, I think what he is trying to say is this:

600HP, mid 10 quarter, no overdrive tranny and 25 mpg is a crock of crap.

Now, if you read the thread you can see the progression of how one post added to another post added to another. I dont think at this point anyone here even remembers the real purpose of this thread (hell, I dont!). As conversation tends to go this thread went seamlessly from one topic to the next, and and everything got all mixed up. I agree with the general,

600HP, mid 10 quarter, no overdrive tranny and 25 mpg is a crock of crap.

Aint gonna happen. But I would like to say that, I really think you guys are the best argument I've had on this board, and I really look forward to it again. Not being a smart ***, really, I enjoyed the discussion.

 

and as far as the used engine thing, I cant see buying a used engine and not doing a rebuild. When I estimated the cost and said that things could be done around equal price, I was adding a rebuild on each. So, I do agree, you could do that swap for that price for sure, and not too bad either. But, man, I just cant trust an engine thats used and not rebuilt

 

Mine had just been rebuilt so it's all good. Of course it's back out of the car now for some upgrades

Also get off the 25mpg kick. "I" did NOT quote 25mpg..the person that started this thread or a few posts down said that, hell I even said 25mpg ain't gonna happen so again, get off of it...

 

Easy tiger, didnt say that you in particular said it. The only quotes that I made on here were involved with quarter mile time. Its cool you found someone that you could trust that rebuilt one, but the simple fact is, most people will not be that lucky

 

I did not say 25mpg either, I did say I've averaged 20-21mpg highway with the 3.08 gears I've been running last two years.

So I agree - 600hp, mid 10 second times, no overdrive, and 25mpg is a crock or at least I havent been able to do it. But getting 20mpg is possible.

 

Easy, EASY? I'm perfectly ****ing calm *** damn it!!!

lol

 

:shrug: He quoted me

 

yep and you like gettin into things that dont have anything to do with you .,....LOL

 

ok im sorry i admit i was wrong on the 25 mpg ....it was 20 or 21 my goof i know that its alot different my bad ....LMAO

 

Ok guys, this is still going on, I cant believe it. Lets just go this way, TURBOS SUCK. THere attack me for that, its a lot easier than me trying to explain why your wrong about everything else.

 

LOL

 

 

 

Well, here is how it goes, judging by what kind of modifications you guys have done, I can honestly say that there is no more research and development involved. Just because those engines were in F bodys too doesnt mean anything, so were SBC's. SO basically its back to this. I know that You could build a carbd SBC turbo that would outperform the v6 and cost the same if not less.

 

 

LMAO

 

Dude, drop it. Seriously. You've made your point. You're no more right than anyone else. Cost is relative to some deals that you can come across.

Let it go. By posting all this crap after the arguement is over seems to me that you're trying to convince yourself, not everyone else.

Again, let it go.

 

Check the sig. Just cause the name says 91Bird305 doesn't mean thats what I have.

 

i was speakin to the other two guys that have been postin for the last 50 or 60 posts man not to you ...is what i meant .....

 

that still makes no sense. They are the ones that helped (helping still) with my turbo v6 swap, so they do know what they are talking about too.
And don't quote me if your not directing a statement towards me, lol.

 

not sayin they dont know what they are talkin about man ....read the whole thread ...lol..and were done argueing on this topic everyone else has dropped it now so why dont we all ...lol...

:rockon:

 

and with that said to all a good night or to all a good day ....( which ever applies ).....lol

 

ok guys, I think there is a good one brewing in the carb boards, lets go!