Just trying to get some outside opinions on my "Burner the R I C E Burner" project. I have never been one for sound systems and all that jaz. Though i admit it looks cool, i just simply prefer to drown out all ambient sound with the chug of carbeurated power in a big block. Though here is my dilema. I already have a 5.7l, which is respectable. And I have calculated the cost of using both engines to my specs, everything from installing a roots blower with a bug catcher, clear down to the polyurethane bushings. So my question is- Should I go through the extra trouble of throwing in the big block? Is the extra time, modifications and cost going to be worth the BB Power? Or should I go for the quick, cheap fix and up the TPI?
Your opinions will help me!
Thanks
-Curtis

 

What are you looking for horsepower wise?

Its funny, i hear a lot on this board, "what does it take to make 500hp, or 550hp"

most people don't realize how much power that truely is.

If your planning on using a carburetor, and assuming the L98 shortblock is still strong, buy a solid set of heads, and a nicely matched cam. That with a 750cfm carb should get you deeeep into the 12's if not 11's.

I don't know what your looking for, but for a street car, a N/A 11 sec motor is pretty stout.

Keep in mind your transmission and rear end won't care too much for this.....

 

Horsepower can be made with anything. Thats not the problem. I just need a push in a direction.
Quick fix 350?
Or Project Modified car with a BB?
I just want to know what others think. Is it to much of a project and should i take the quick fix? Or should i persavere to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
*Sigh what a dilemma

 

Have you considered a stroker 383 or SB400?

 

Once again, how much power are you looking to create?

This has a direct result on what to use, of course my first suggestion would be just to fix up the 350 since they can make respectable amounts of power, and unless you have some large HP goals, the BB may not be necessary....

 

383 Strokers are nice, but if im spending money to up ci then im going all out. The SB400 had alot of problems that came with it. I cant think of all them but some included bad sealing capabilities and trouble with trannys.

Im shooting for around 400-450 with the 350 for a respectable street machine. The 454 will be putting out more than 600 which is more than respectable on the street or at the track.

So i guess its this break down:

Street & Show...
-or-
Street & Strip...

Whats more practical? I do all of them...
Then again the main goal is to burn the r i c e burners that buzz around downtown, but i want them shi**** their pants when we are sitting at the line. I want the most horsepower, but also massive torque, for the least hassle, which enevitably points to the 350...

 

Building up the L98 you have now will be cheaper in the long run. Not to mention that you will have a nice mix of street and strip power. It is funny how you want to kill uncle bens finest. Well your stock L98 is more than capable of murdering 90% of those cars as it sits right now. Modding it will make victory even greater. But it all boils down to what you really want to do with the car most of the time you drive it.

 

I would just mod the 350 if you goal is to burn ricers.....

 

well a BB third gen isn't all that simple, it runs hot, and it adds a heck of a lot of weight to the car. and it's a car that's known for it's handling, among other things. I'd suggest a really stout 350 buildup. Build it up, get the right cam and heads, keep the compression low and then add a kickbutt supercharger.

Or you could do a BB. It's easy to get more power out of one, it'd certainly scare the crap out of any of the imports, but then again a properly built blown 350 would smoke just about anything out there on the streets though too. I'd say go with the sbc for the savings of space, cooling, headaches, and handling.

 

modd the 350 and be done with it. If done right, you won't even hear the r i c e in your neighborhood, not even the high end ones. BB you're looking at lots of $$$

 

you pretty much answered your own question if you want the most touque and hp go with the big block if you want something thats gonna give you respecible numbers and easier install then go with the 350 but its a decision you have to make and one that completly depends on your budget

 

hey thanks guys. I got my push. Well actually it was an information packet i got in the mail from ATI Procharger. As soon as I opened up to the supercharger section for F-Bodies i got tickles running down my spine. For just $4,000 you can get the supercharger kit along with a stage 2 intercooler and it can be claocked anywhere from 12-20 psi, but can support up to 32. Thats more than 85% Horsepower gain! Damnnnn! Theres my answer. That along would throw me into the 400's. Then i still have heads, cam, etc.
You guys have been a big help.
Anyone have any suggestions for heads? Cam? Headers? Serpintene sys.?
Thanks

 

You should call ATI and see what they think.

 

With a SC a stock L98 should make 400+hp.

 

Damn it people, must i be the voice of reason!! Get a blown 572 BB, and never look back

 

I'd reccomend the 350. Plenty of guys on this board are running a nice set of heads (AFR, Pro Action), HSR, SR or miniram with a Lingenfelter or 276 comp cam, 3.73 gears and a 3,000 stall converter, and pulling low 12's once tuned (DIY PROM). The 350 will save weight on the front end and can really hual **** in a 3rd gen. Good luck!!

 

I agree the 350 is a very versitile engine and with a s/c and H/C/I on it you can make it capable of not only being quick but very street friendly and still smoke those front wheel drive buzz cars not to mention 5.0 mustangs, LSI, and most any car on the road. also get 13/4 or 17/8 headers as for the other stuff all i can suggest is do it right the first time and get quality parts so youll get alot of mileage out of it.
and mr cali92rs forget about the lakers---PISTONS in 6

 

Can you please stop smoking crack before you post on here fiction like that

 

Trying to put a big block in the F-body is no fun. Just put N20 on it
That will burn ricers all day! Costs less
too!

 

if your going s/c then your gonna have a fun ride just dont do the nitros thing save that for the R!CERS...lol

 

Why? Lots of drag cars run it. it is a valid power adder. as long as you don't call it NAWZ, and call it nitros oxide it's ok.

 

yeah just dont call it nowz and its better i guess...but i still like a n/a motor my self but thats just my opinion i know there are quite a few guys on this board that run nitros and make some killler hp but remember to just be carfull ive seen some cars that had nitros on em and helped pull the engines and replace pistons with quarter sized holes in em

 

I've seen pictures of the after math of a NOx tank exploding in the trunk of a maxima. Not pretty, it looked like a coke can after meeting an M80.

 

The dark side of power.

 

look here. Dont listen to the people who say it will over heat, its extra weight, and all that stupid junk. And you can have street, strip, and show wiht a big block. When people come up to my car, and i have i have a 454 big block, they are stunned, and sigh. If i said i had a 350, or a 400, they would jsut be like "oh". Big blocks will not over heat with a new radiator, which if you build up a built 350, u will want a different rad. to. And the extra weight, well if you want a fast big block, u will be gettin alum. heads, so what is 60 more pounds in the engine bay? Come on, i have a big block, and have drove many small block camaros/firebirds, and there is really not that much of a difference, just in the power. Puttin a big block in a f-body is FUN!! Its not hard, and your accomplishments are greatly appreciated by everyone. If i can do it at age of 17, then trust me, you can do it. You already have a tranny that will hold up to it, so you my as well get an engine that will have more power than what you need that is n/a. My big block is drivin at least 5 times a week, and i put around 80 miles on it in a week. I speak from experience, dont let other people tell you what it is when they have a lousy stock 350 in there car. Just my .02 cents.

and o yeah, a twin turbo supra will give your 350 a run for its money. It dont give my big block much of a run tho. Just remember, more cubes has the potential for more hp.

 

yeah just put something in your car so everyone will think you're cool

and you guys must have some slow a$$ imports around you

 

I like your thoughts, I threw my '85 together just to kill those stupid little "Fast and the Furious" wannabees with their fart cans and godawfull wings on cheap little plastic cars.

You don't have to do squat to kill them, a few little mods on a stock 5.7 will do it. You just need to get the weight tranferred to the rear quickly. If you set your car up to hook of the line and go to a higher numerically gear ratio, you will do it fine. Don't have to spend a lot of money like them to go fast.

We can take our American muscle and run rings around those stupid little things far too easily. Traction and weight tranfer is the key. The Camaros and Firebirds have always been notorious for bad weight ratios without modification. Start there.

 

If you really want to go fast cheap and be stretable, big blocks are the way to go, but they are a bit of a hassle in a third gen.

You should check out some of the 3rd Gens with big block Cadillac motors. THose are sweet engines! THe power band is way lower than chevy big blocks, the cores are cheaper, and oh yeah, they come in two sizes 472 and 500 cubic inches. Also, just generally more streetable than chevy big blocks of the same power levels. However the chevy crate 572 is incredible. Also, 15k.

 

Well if crate engines were the issue id get the chevy 502/502. in my opinion thats the most bang for the buck. But the more i drive it around the more im liking the mechanical injection (lot less hassle). So im thinking i might just stick with the 350 and later by a 69 yenko... if i can find one or a 73 StingRay, and have that be my big block ride, but who knows.
Anyone have any suggestions for some good gears? im thinking 3.73s would do the job, but maybe i should jump to 4.11s. And whats a good tranny? I have always been a "Manual" man and am really not liking not having complete control over this car. I need 5 or 6 gears to play with. hit me with some thoughts.
Thanks

 

Above i posted to just get a BBC, but i was just bull****ting. If i were you, and had the ends, I would get a 383. It gives you a lot of flexibility because of it being a standard SBC , no fabrication required, plus you get all the torque you need.
I'm a fuel injection guy, so i would go with either a stealth ram, or a miniram.
I would go with a cam with ~235* in. duration.
If you want a manual, go with a built T56 (although I'm nut sure if it would be able to handle the torque u would make). If u can use the T56, 4.11's would be great cuz in the lower gears, u get the great launch , but with a T56 u can still drive it on the freeway cuz of the 6th gear.

Edit: dont forget the suspension/chassis work

 

I think there are only 4 thirdgens around here (that I know of) that could take me.

It takes a little more than just a few mods if your planning on going after anything more than just some kid with an i/h/e on his civic

 

what are you running that makes you so confident? I know have the resources to beat anything on the street that i can see. all i have to do is call my uncle whos got a a 69 charger with a blown Hemi, domed T-309 Piston heads, stage 3 cam, the works... thats putting out just under 950 horsepower and 1000ftlbs or torque. Believe me i know what it takes to be fast. $$$$$ and thats it. All im doing is trying to make a respectable F-Body to burn the local fart machines, go cruisin and pick up the chicas in! Isnt that the goal of everyone? Im just getting advice on different ways to approach it. If you have a fast car then good, but you dont have to come in and act all big and bad.

 

i/h/e? I take it you mean intake, head and exhaust...

I used to think that people that said "There's no replacement for displacement" were on crack. Then I bought my 3rdgen and have seen how true this is.

Do a mod to your Civic and I'll do the same type of mod on my IROC. Lets see who makes more power with the same mod...

Either that, or lets put stock to stock and see who wins.

 

Right 0n!! Better yet, have him load his Civic up with bricks until it weighs the same as a third gen, then let's see what times it runs.

I took my '85 327 out today and lined up with a buddy's turbo, nos prelude and just smoked him from off the line to the end, he never had a chance. We used a marked out 1/4 on a back road.
I had my fiancee video tape it and I would post it except I don't have the video capabilities on my pc. I am going to try to find someone who does.

Back to the original poster...have you come up with an idea as to what you would like to do yet?

 

Im glad you asked...
Just yesterday-
1. Pulled EGR system
2. Replaced injectors (30lbs)
3. Victor Jr. Aluminum heads
4. Heddman Shorties
5. High Flow cats
6. Polyurethane bushings
7. New Struts/springs all around
8. Throttle body spacer
9. Eclipse mp3 head unit
10. New BFG G-Force Tires (75% tread left after this weekend)

Next....

FiberGlass Big Block Hood
Stage 3 Crane Cam (or new brain, as i like to call it)
New rockers and arms
Jet Performance chip
Balance and Blueprinting
and the big kahonai...
ATI Procharger... D1SC 20psi...Stage 2 intercooler... and all the fixins.... $4,400..ouch, but ooooooh aaaaaaah. ZZZZING

Any other Suggestions?

 

pay attention to what I said fellas, I was referencing him saying he wanted to take anything. I said if you want to beat more than just your average kid in the civic you'll need more than just a couple bolt ons. I'm not saying you guys should have any problems with some average civic but there are plenty of imports running around that can't be taken with just a couple bolt ons to a 5.7

And I'm not talking crap MrSpooky, not like I was saying I can beat everyone...you said that

but I am speaking form experience, I'm definilty not the fastest but I do turn 12.60's, and compared to my 92 which is no slouch (13.8 before headers and any rear end suspension) I still get waxed.

 

If you honestly plan to push 20psi, I recommend you research building motors to handle that much boost. I doubt the stock L98 bottom end or internals could handle it for long. I mean, I been running 6psi on the stock L98 for over 50K miles, but 20psi .... thats a lot ... Also, be sure to get the right cam (for a supercharged application), not sure what this "stage 3" stuff is. And forget about stuff like the Jet chip. With heads, cam, blower, etc you'll want better tuning than something off-the-shelf. FMU and stock ECM can get it done, but tuning will never be as good as something like a properly tuned 749 ECM or standalone ECM. When you're talking about highly modified setups and high boost, good tuning can mean an extra 40-60hp, maybe even more (from what I've seen). Makes a big difference, and also safer for the engine.

I too want to smoke my local Import competition, but unfortunately for me we're talking 700hp ... so yeah ... gonna be a while hahaha

 

Big difference between Imports and R!cers. I don't mind the Imports at all, and would like to own a 300ZX-TT someday...

Torque - 383 stroker and soem nice gearing would do nicely for that brutal off-the-line stuff. Just make sure the suspension can handle it - John Force burnouts are cool, but they don't win anything other than burnout contests.

 

just thaught I would voice my opinion. I like the fact that you can build a SBC with BBC power. I like people that say oh you have a small block, Yeah I'll Race you for $100.00. It kinda makes it like a sleeper.

One Day I plan on a 427 Small Block Chevy.

Dart LittleM Block
4.125" Forged Pistons
4.00 Stroke Crank
6" Rods
AFR 210 Heads
and A nice CAM

what was that he said, Oh You have a Small Block

 

man, you guys love to trash on imports.
i actually love imports!
Cars that handle are fun, like i drove one of te new maximas, that thing was fun as hell, and not slow at all. grant it that it couldnt beat **** in a straight line, but im sure it could out handle most camaros.
but the ****, ya what the ****. im just curious what those kids are thinking....

 

Umm, a Bigblock with aluminum heads and an aluminum intake doesn't weight much at all. My iron block, fully loaded with the heads on it weighed 491 lbs. If you keep it all iron, yea, it can get up to 750 lbs, but if you had even a little bit of money, and were building a big block, you can make it weigh less than a stock 305. I know cause I did it.

All those extra cubic inches are just air, so they are pretty light... That is a joke, but the truth isn't far behind.

 

383lt1 with a sc and some juice.... thats one mighty mouse!!:rockon: that should get you were you want and even farther...

 

383 LT1 without the SC, jsut the full LT4 cam kit with a decent exhaust. By full kit, I mean the cam, rockers, and heavy duty timing kit.

As someone said though the tranny and rear arent going to like it. On one of these boards someone called up richmond to ask how much power their gears for a GM 10 Bolt could take, they replied 400HP max, which is why I decided against the LT4 cam kit myself...

 

If the only thing stopping you from doing a big block is weight then do an Aluminum Big Block. Anything from overseas that can handle that (BBC power and torque at SBC weight) can only be seen outside the track on a trailer.

I can see it now... RODECK, EFI, and ATI... OHMYGAWD!!!

Jason