Ok I recently put in a new Gm zz4 crate motor with a few upgrades. I put a crane cam Lift: .447''/.447''RPM Range: 2200-5200 , crane hyd. lifters, and 1.5 roller rockers. My compression is 10.5 to 1, and I run it on pump gas. 750 holley carb, 58cc alm heads, alm intake. I built the motor to run low 12's high 11's and it runs mid 13's. I was dissapointed in this. I have upgraded everything I could think of.

Engine: described above est. 430hp 450 ft. lbs torque
Ignition: MSD hot coil distributor.
Tranny: 700 R4 rebuilt, with shift kit and painless wiring overdrive kit.
Aluminum driveshaft
Eaton 10 bolt rear end posi unit, with 3.73 gears
275 50 15 tires on back.

The only thing that I havnt changed on the car is the stall converter. Its still the stock 1200 one. But will that do me any good?

I run it at the local 1/8 mile track and this has been my best time slip
60ft 2.1
330ft 5.8
1/8 et 8.80
mph 80.60

could my launch be holding me back?
I would like to dip into the 12's without any nitrous...
thank you for your time

 

That sounds like a lot of horsepower for such little cam.

 

your motor is holding u back.spend more money on the motor and you`ll get there.i run mid to low 12`s with my car.heres my engine setup. 350(0.60+) 13-1 compression, comp cams 294s cam 246@.o50 .525 lift, motown heads,team g intake, 750 holley.
with this made 450 hp @ 6600 400tq @ 5000 on a dyno.going fast aint cheap.

 

Your heads and cam are holding you back the Al L98 heads are not good at making good power. The cam is also a old design and is much improved upon today.

 

Is that the "151" cam? 221°/221° @ .050", .447"/.447"?

If it is, take that "upgrade" back out and throw it in the trash, and put the ZZ4 cam and roller lifters back in; that should give you most of your missing 150 HP back. Or "upgrade" to a little bit more than that, in a hyd roller, but don't get too carried away.

The ZZ4 won't run low 12s unless the car is well under 3000 lbs. But in one of these cars at 3200 lbs or so it should run low 13s as it comes, with no "upgrades" at all.

 

its a "blueprint musclecar camshaft" http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...06&prmenbr=361

 

yup sounds like a mismatch of parts need better heads and cam to get you into the 12's even the high 12's......

 

Yes, crap. You want a newly designed cam, not that old horrible technology. Look at the comp cam extreme energy cams. I would get a comp XE268H.

 

You dont need a lot of money just a good setup. Compare our cars. You have 3 points more compression, 16* more @.050 duration and expensive aftermarket heads, and you are running what the vortec 350's with 10:1 compression are running on these forums. $400 heads, $100 hydraulic camshaft and pump gas = 12's.

 

I agree that your engine setup shouldn't be making 430hp. What are you trapping in the 1/4 when you run mid 13's?

You can run 13:1 CR on an SBC and pump gas?

 

2.0 60ft

it spins

 

My 87 T/A runs mid 12's. Here is whats in it.: TRW small dome pistons (approx 11:1 CR) Child&Albert crank and rods (not a power mod, but I am also spraying the motor) Sportsman II-s, Comp. 292Magnum (244 at .050) with Comp conical springs, Victor intake, 750DP, long tubes and 2800 stall in the full manual 700. This combo is good for approx. 420 or so HP. So, I dont think there is anything wrong with Your motor, it just isn't the right combo to make 430HP , more like 330HP. Change it around to something more like mine and what the others above described and it will be like night and day. A Performer RPM or something similar will work for an intake, I use the Victor because I have plate nitrous and I feel that the big plenum is helping me with it...Just my thoughts...

 

i run 110 octane.

 

my heads were around thousand dollars.i dont think your motor makes 450 hp na like mine.I have yet to see a vortec 350 with 10:1 compression run in the 12`s.maybe they do and maybe there cars are gutted .

 

I make in the 400-425 horsepower range judging from my trap speed.

And PonyKiller is running 11.9's last time i checked with a vortec 350, same cam as me and a bit more compression. There are 2 other vortec 350's running 12's, I dont remember who it is, all are street cars.

13:1, big cam and $1000 heads and you should be running 10's, not mid 12's.

 

And to give you a reference point, Car Craft made 530 horsepower out of a 350 with $999 E-tec heads, 11.3:1 compression and a solid flat tappet cam on pump gas. Its not money its combination.

 

The main thing is, get that old POS cam out of there. Even the one that came in that motor is far superior. And it's barely more than alot of stock ones; it'll pass CA emissions, if the motor's "accessories" are all as they should be.

You gotta remember about those old HP "ratings" they were totally unreliable for anything. That "375 HP 327" probably would not do 275 by modern measurement methods; and would do probably 75 more than that, with a modern cam, and no other changes. We've learned a thing or 2 about cams and how to make better ones, since 1963.

Arguing about which heads are better that the original poster doesn't have, or who's going faster on less money, is beside the point. Steve has a ZZ4, we all know what that is and what it'll do and so forth. He damaged it, maybe without realizing what he was doing, maybe got some bad advice from somebody, or didn't understand what the catalog said, or just had never done anything like this before; he needs to undo what he did to it, and learn from the experience. Vortecs and S2s and big solids have nothing to do with his question.

 

well im def. swapping the cam out. i just dont know what to go with. any suggestions with my current combo?

 

Still got the OE ZZ4 stuff? Cam & lifters & hardware? You have what looks to me like an otherwise utterly stock normal ZZ4, with no real mods to it; if you've still got what it came with, try it.

 

never ever believe what the magazine tell you.they always fudge the numbers.It takes Money to go fast, unless of course u got good parts cheap via swap meet.friend.ebay etc.doesnt combination cost money too.do u run in the 12`s????how much did u have to gut your car to do so???

next year i aim for low 11`s . its going to take more money, differnt parts and some weight loss.

 

Yeah the ambiguous magazine correction factor.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=242842

 

You can assume that the magazines will have the absolute BEST machine work, the BEST people at the dyno tuning the motor and as many runs as it takes for them to get the numbers they want, but its not fair to say they fudge the numbers- they may produce numbers the average person may not be able to duplicate but they don't lie.

My car currently has no carpet or plastics because I installed a 10 point roll cage (to be legal for 11's). I assure you the roll cage weighs more than the carpet/plastics I took out. I am going to put the carpet/plastics back in, which may slow me down a tenth or a tenth and a half, and it will still be a mid to low 12 second car. My car also runs these numbers on 275/50/15 radial T/A tires. No drag radials, no slicks. Its all about the setup- matched gears, converter, cam/heads, etc. Its not about $$$.

 

A 13:1 motor with a big solid cam and a set of aftermarket aluminum heads should make more than 450 horsepower. Figure your combination out instead of throwing more money at it.

 

What they don't say tells more typically than what they do.

How often have you seen back-to-back comparisons between different manufacturer's products? Rarely. Even when you do, they will change something else so you can't directly compare them. Or, they mismatch so horribly that you still don't know what to believe.

But...

I'm confident we can believe the ZZ4 cam will produce better power than the cam currently in this engine.

 

you would think it would ,and so did i, so did dd2000......realworld it only made 450 hp 400 tq on the dyno.i run mid to low 12`s as u well know ,i was also open with my engine combo.So explain to steveiguess why his car doesnt run in the 12`s , after all hes got basically the same engine as u(vortec , zz4).let`s be more specific than saying its "the combination".What have u done extra that steveiguess didnt that got u in the 12`s??

 

_

 

my engine was tuned on the dyno.we did many pulls.
good luck with your project keep us posted.

 

He doesnt have the same engine as me. For one- different heads. The aluminum L98 heads on the zz4 flow way less than the out of the box stock vortecs. I agree with everyone else- the cam he chose to put in probably cost him horsepower as opposed to benefiting him as well. I dont see where he listed his converter, he needs to be running a 3000 converter even with the stock zz4 camshaft.

The 350HO isnt that far off in horsepower production from the ZZ4 right out of the box, despite what GM rates them at. I am running a camshaft more suited to my combination, 230/236@.050, .487/.490 lift w/ 1.5's. My heads stall out around .500 lift and that is perfect for my camshaft.

I am running a hughes 3000 converter, I could use a 4000 but the 3000 is 'ok' I run 3.73 gears on 26" tall tires and I reach my motor's peak power just pass the 1000' mark.

DAVERR-
I am not trying to knock your combination, but when you come on here saying he needs to throw more money at his motor it makes me mad. Find a combination that works and tune on it. I went from 14's to high 12's with my combination before i swapped cams just tuning the damn thing. Get out to the track and spend some time figuring things out instead of throwing money at it.

In your case, I would have chosen a camshaft better suited to your cylinder heads. Something modern, dual pattern, definitely more lift and on a tighter LSA like a 106. The comp magnum cams don't have a ton of lift for how much @.050 duration they have, plus once you take out lash its barely even .500 lift, and they are ground on an idle friendly 110 LSA. If you dont care about a slightly rougher idle, I would go to something like the comp 12-515-5. Your heads dont really start flowing until .550/.600, and you arent even hitting that with your current camshaft. I dont know how race oriented your setup is, but you should be running at bare minimum a 4000-4500 converter and 4.10's with that much cam in a 350. That is my advice to you.

 

:
dude needs to really take the advice that it takes money to make power, but you can go fast on a budget. I can take a junkyard 350 short block and for 2000 more dollars run over 450 hp and be pretty reliable.

lat me know

later

rick king