Hi all,
I have just sold already finished by machine shop 305 block, which where my old project. I had a good chance to change it to 350 1 piece seal, but not roller block ( I hope it was worth...). Since I've got most of the parts to the old one now I have to do research again. Now there is a open question what combo do I have to chose for my application. Please advice according to my modification what would be the best choose (another words if you where me ...)
What I have now: TBI injection I'd like to stay with, 3'' exhaust (emission is not a problem), 58 CC heads which I plan to port, manual transmission 5 speed BW, I would use 95 or 98 octane fuel. at the same time I'd like to use the car for street (strip sometimes).

Now Do I have to build 383 stoker kit like one mentioned here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW
or stay with performance 350 build up. Which option you would choose. ? What is the difference in mileage between 350 and 383 ?
BTW: I would prefer to bye already balanced kit as well as convert it to roller cam and lifters.
Thanks for all advise.
350 or 383 please advice

 

The TBI injection will choke your new engine .. weather its a 350

or worst, a 383.

Your T-5 trans wont last too long behind a modded 350, even

less a 383.

The 383 will have a lower peak torque band.

A 383 is torquier, more fun\needs more attention towards

traction ..

A 383 short block is better to have, since the top end can be

upgraded, but your induction setup wont be beneficial.

Either way the TBI has to go I find.

The 383 is a better investment, but the 350 will be "nicer" to your

parts, tho if you plan on upgrading later .. Id opt for the 383.


'edit' - a roller block is better by the way.

 

If all you have is a bare block and you need to buy a crank anyway, then the difference in cost between building a 383 and a 350 is minimal enough that there's really not much point in not building a 383.

 

Well, I know that TBI it's the worst solution as EFI, but for the moment I don't want to change to many thinks at the same time due to lack of immediate support as well as parts availability.
I searched 6 months 5,7 bare block, unfortunately it's not so easy find one and roller version is very rare, so I had no choice. That's why I plan to make conversion BTW Do you know the best (cheapest) way to do it. I already have Compu Cams #818-16 roller lifters. ?
Next step after current engine swap would be probably new T56 transmission.
So you encourage me to go with 383 to have more fun (low end torque) ? Is it really so big difference ? Please can you suggest any parts store for 383 kit purchase ? as well as some tips for building this kit ?. Is a lot of block modification necessary ? (I plan do it myself of course without boring and honing stuff). What about 383 and stock (only ported) 58 CC heads # 416 casting. Do they fit ?
Thanks in advance

 

818-16 Comp cams lifters are Solid roller lifters. Pretty much if you use them you'll have to becarefull about what camshaft and springs you use. Basically using a hybrid lifter combining muscle car technology with roller technology. So there is not hydra pressure in them. That means the springs are going to have to be strong! Also means it won't be as user friendly due to the fact that there isn't pressure to take up the extra space from wear over time. That's why you hear people saying they need to "run lash" or "set valves" etc. Basically their saying they need to take the slack out of their valvetrains.

And solid roller setup will allow nice RPM range but it can be costly to build. My 383 I'm building now is using it and I have probably around 800 bucks total in the valvetrain. Camshaft for them are a little higher than others ($250).

383 has 33 more cubic inches than a 350. Basically it's a 30 over bore job with a longer throw crankshaft.

Block mods- you'll need to grind on the oil rails to clearance them for the larger crankshaft. Without clearancing you'll hit the rod bolts off the block. The block will have to be bored/honed 0.030 if it's a regular 4.0 bore currently.

Summit and Jegs both offer stroker kits.

Becareful with camshafts due to the longer stroke there might be minimal clearance issue between the rods and the lobes on the camshaft. Normally it's not a factor but always good to mention.

Lots of people over look the balancer too. Depending on your kit you buy it might be internally or externally balanced. Basically the difference between the two is the internal balancing means they've add'd heavy metal to the crankshaft itself letting you use a 350 balancer and neutral flexplate/flywheel. If it's externally balanced weight wasn't add'd directly to the crankshaft but on the ends attachments: flexplate/flywheel and a 400 balancer.

It's gonna take some time either way. I've had my block in my bedroom since last spring. Right now I'm down to the final steps before it's completed though. Main thing is to take your time and don't get in a hurry. You don't want to rush then realized acouple minutes into your initial break-in that you might have forgotten to torque a rod bolt or two.

 

If it were me and you plan on running stock heads with TBI on top, build the 350.

 

I don't really see a point of changing the build due to intake or heads choice. IMO it would be smarter just to build it the way you want, because once you the get HP urge going in your veins a set of heads and intake upgrade will come eventually down the road.

Also I used a roller cam in a non-roller block. You'll need to use a camshaft button. It's a small spacer that you adjust with included thin shims so the camshaft is held in place. Without the spacer between the timing cover and camshaft it will want to walk forward out of the block... that's not good of course. This also means you will not beable to use cheap timing covers. The cover will have to be a decent one not a thin tin ebay type crap. Also I've seen people use water pumps that allowed a center stud to put positive pressure on the face on the timing cover. That helps reduce the deflection of the camshaft pushing outward.

 

You build an engine around the cylinder heads and induction, period. Take a cylinder head and induction system that was barely sufficient for a 305 and 80 cubic inches, its not going to be impressive.

Also, have you considered what kind of compression he is going to wind up with using 58cc cylinder heads on a 383? Flat top 4v relief pistons will put him up close to 10.7-11:1 compression with an iron head. Sure he can run a monster dished piston, but what happens when he buys new heads? Now he needs to angle mill the new cylinder heads because he doesn't have enough compression.

Not to mention the fact that he is looking at doing his own work, which on a 383 means clearancing the block for the added stroke.

 

Your right about the heads I totally missed the 58cc. Good catch.

As for clearancing that can done with a die grinder (that's how lots of members here have done it, including myself).

 

Not when the distributor gear is trying to pull it backwards.

 

Just restating what Comp Cams told me. Here' a quick tech article I grabbed off the net. http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/49161/

 

Thanks for this explanation, I bought those lifters on ebay for the good price, but I was not sure that they're not hydraulic. Do you know how often do we have to setup lash in valvtrain having solid roller lifters ? As I suppose pushrods are different too ?
By "costly" you mean solid roller setup or generally conversion to roller ?. Is it any chance to adapt stock roller cam to work with solid roller lifters (and proper cam button, trust plate, etc. ) ?

I wish you good luck in your project. Well I started mine in August last year and sold most parts with block last week. Even didn't have a chance to start assembly it, so I know it's gonna take a time...
Ok, Let's imagine that I would like to stay with the stock heads. The heads which I have as I know never where used in TBI injection. (to clarify it's different pairs than on my current TBI engine) I found out that #416 casting are the best heads for mod. The heads where taken from '86 TPI 5.0 engine. That's why I decided to spend money on it, but if you say it's not worth... ???I saw the articles saying that good porting job on those heads could flow similar to Vortec or Brodix. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
On 95 octane fuel 10,7-11:1 compression will work ok what do you think ?

 

What are your power goals? Don't let the TBI negativity get to you. You can support a healthy 350 and close to 400 hp 350 or 383 with a 2" TBI unit and the proper injectors. Air flow is not the limitation of TBI no matter what people tell you. Its high HP fueling and boost limitations shows its downfalls. It was never designed to do that so it isn't even really a flaw in that respect. With TBI you can have fuel injection at a much cheaper cost than a multiport set-up. The multiport will make more power on the same engine but it comes at a higher cost. It is a trade off to save some money, retain fuel injection with good fuel mileage, along with keeping the wiring and such all the same. If you went the multiport route you wouldn't even want to waste your time with the stock style TPI. You would want to buy a miniram, superram, stealth ram ect ect which come at a great cost. A cost that is much higher than what it takes to make 6000rpm power with TBI. Check out the TBI board for more info and be sure to search for 350/383 TBI information. However, if you plan on more than 400hp, I would not reccomend TBI.

 

Basically, a solid roller setup is not a daily driver setup. The expenses in a solid roller setup come when you add up all the parts that must be changed to deal with the massive amounts of spring pressure a solid roller camshaft requires. Strong, expensive valve springs are required with a lot of spring pressure (which would require having your spring pockets opened up to accomodate larger diameter springs), 10* locks, lash caps and retainers would be a good idea, one piece forged valves are a must under that kind of spring pressure, you would need strong, expensive pushrods as well as a good timing set, etc, etc, etc.

Here is a suggestion I would like to make to you. Have you priced how much a valve job, guides, etc, etc would cost on the heads you have now? Have you considered selling those cylinder heads and buying a set of vortec heads. I think this would be your best move. You would have the benefit of running a modern combustion chamber as well as a good flowing cylinder head. Build the engine around the heads, but start off with a decent cylinder head . There are plenty of people putting down well over 400 horsepower with vortec heads.

 

Yep what unkown_host said, if you want to run solid roller valvetrain you'll be packing a lot of money into a set of OEM heads upgrading all the hardware (if it's even possible). My springs have the minimum of 220 lbs of pressure when closed and around 400+ lbs when open. That's more than enough to make OEM heads have major problems.

As for valve lash Comp Cams recommends around 3,000 miles at least that's what they say. Many people I know even members on here go longer than that at times. For your application solid rollers is an overkill. You're not looking for 7000+ RPM range or rapid ramps on the lobes to cram the valve open as quick as possible and keep it there for a long time. The power you gain off them above 5000 RPMs will not be used very much in your application. I would recommend reconsidering the use of a solid roller system. In your case the cons are greater than the pros.

You'll still have to use cam button due to the retrofit of roller lifters into a non-roller block.

I also agree on changing heads if you have the money. IMO still it doesn't make sense to me to set a lower end up to use OEM heads that are 58cc, because down the road if you ever decide to upgrade you'll either have to deal with a lower compression ratio or mill the new heads like stated earlier. Which I guess you could always use to your advantage with a forced induction system.

Looks like you got some more research ahead of you.

 

Thanks for you support. I'll plan to be around 400 maybe just slightly above, so I think I could try with TBI. I'll keep searching TBI board

Well, I calculate the cost and it seems that the pair of Vortec heads cost is around 500 USD assembled, so Its just slightly more what I have to pay for rebuilding old one. + transport cost which will be high unfortunately, but I think I made a decision already - new heads. (Thanks for destroying my all previous plan)
Thers is one question: Will the dynomax collectors fit this Vortec heads ????. Do you have any recomendation about intake for this heads ?




BTW Set of #816-16 needs gone as well. Any volunteers maybe ?

 

Might post on the classifieds for the lifters, if it doesn't sell on there solid rollers use to be a hot item on ebay (haven't check'd for awhile since I have a set now).

 

Here's my question,if it's not a roller block,and your going to stroke it to a 383,why even mess with a 1 piece seal block?There is no advantage that I know of,the crank will cost more,and you sometimes run into balance issues.
Also,are the roller blocks really that rare?I've got a bare 4 bolt roller block from a 96 pickup laying out in the shop,it's never been machined in any way.Is it worth anything?I don't have any of the hardware that goes to it,but if it's worth anything maybe I should sell it.

 

A 1 piece rms block has taller lifter bores (good if you are running solid roller), is tapped for a factory hydraulic roller setup, and an Eagle ESP cast 3.75 stroke external balance crankshaft for a 1 piece rms runs $165, the same as a 2 piece.

 

Not all 1 piece blocks are tapped for a roller,I've got 2 that aren't.And I know for a fact that you can run into balance issues on a 1 piece 383,the one I built ended up needing $145 worth of mallory,on top of the normal balance cost.And yes,it was an eagle crank,I bought it as a rotating assembly.My question is,if the block he has is not a roller block,why mess with it?

 

Was it an internal or external balance crank that you used with the 1 piece rms?

I am not trying to argue with you, in fact I am going to be balancing a 1 piece rms rotating assembly in a few weeks, if you would like I can post the results. I could very well be wrong about the blocks, I was under the impression they made the switch to 1 piece and hydraulic roller blocks at the same time. Oh well.