The 406 is swapping fluids again,I'm thinking another head gasket.I'm fairly confident that my machine work is flawed,and theres a problem with the deck.

I've had a fresh 468 sitting around since I gave up mudracing,I have decided to give it a home in my Camaro.I'm in the process of jerking the 406 out,( gonna set it aside and fix it when I'm done kicking it )And removing the XE274H hydraulic cam out of my 468,and stabbing the XS282S cam I bought in it.It's really stupid to build an engine and tear it apart like that before I ever even fired it up,but I never was that thrilled about a hydraulic cam to begin with.
I'm gonna go the Patriot H8012 route,unless some Hookers show up well worth the dough.If I figure out the bride's camera,I'll post pics.I was pretty bummed,but I'm getting enthused about having big valve covers under my irocs hood now!
Cheer me On,I need the push!

 

Have fun. It isn't a bolt-in, but then, what is?

(Sorry about my part in your cam expense. . . )

 

I was already reluctant of the hydraulic,and was looking at the
XE274S,the thread you posted opened my eyes a bit,and your
good luck with the cam just sealed the deal.Luckily,I have enough spare BB stuff(gaskets and trinkets)leftover that the cam and lifters are the only real expense.I think I'm also gonna splurge on the Howard's direct lubes,even though I preached against it.Curiuosity is getting to me,I suppose.

I'm aware it's not a bolt in deal,but with the lack of heater or A/C,wipers,(which I actually intend to put back in,get caught in the least bit of a shower and the saved weight becomes less of an issue),or any other unneccesary component along with manual brakes and steering should simplify things greatly.Note I said SHOULD.

 

i am about half way through the swap. the patriot headers are a pain. yea that guy beat hisfloor but i got a huge long sledge and where the frame over laps the body wont budge! his is laying nice and flat with plenty of room between but i got out the cutting wheel after 2 hours of beating it with no results (he said 10 mins and it looked like the pics.)

i got mine in there but barely and im probably going to touch once the trans crossmember tips the back half up. i will just put some kind of heat sheilding on the floor there to keep the heat off the carpet. i beat the crap pout of the floor with mild results and after 5 times of picking the motor up and planting it back in by myself im 5'4 126lbs i give up lol if its an issue im cutting whatever i have to im not beating anything else i cant get anything to move.

i have to put the crossmember on, the torque arm, the drive shaft, the frnt accessories, and the intake and im done. yea the engine fits perfect but the headers (both hooker and patriot) leave something to be desired for the everyday guy in his back yard with a 30lb sledge and a wild hair up his **** about stuffing a bigb block in a small block spot.

 

I'll keep that in mind about the headers.Luckily,I have a pretty fair setup for fabrication work,wish I had a better bender,I'd just build a set of headers.

 

Nobody "bends" a set of headers. With a mandrel bender, you can't get the complex bends required for headers. Custom headers are made by welding sections of mandrel bent tubes into the desired shape needed. It's time consuming, it can be more expensive than store bought headers but if done properly, you can have a custom set design to fit exactly the way you want.

Here's my Ed Quay headers. See the sections.

 

Every one of those bends were made from a length of tube.
All a mandrel bend consists of is tubing that was bent after being packed with sand and both ends capped.

 

Got a screamin deal on a set of Hooker swap headers today.My hopes of retaining any part of the existing exhaust are gone
Oh well,price of the game I suppose.Gonna spend a while tommorow evening figuring out what's gonna have to be modified to make it work.Couple of test fits,etc.I'll try to post a couple pics.

 

Bolted it all in for good today.Ended up using an oil pan for a 72 Chevelle,and as far as the engine itself,it fit's MUCH better that I ever dreamed.My only hitch was the Hooker headers.I got them used,so there may be instructions that could have helped me.But from my experiance,it seems like whoever designed these had never even seen a 3rd gen,let alone worked on one!

Otherwise,it's been an extremely painless ordeal.A long water pump fits fine with my electric fan,and hood clearence is ok,but it should be with a 4" cowl!

With the luck I've had,I will say,my hat's off to anyone who has swapped in a BB and retained the heater/A/C and wipers.

 

Hooker Headers instructions have always been available online but I haven't heard of anyone who managed to have a set that were considered a "bolt on"

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...al/2226HKR.pdf

 

Man,I'm glad I didn't see the instructions before I put em' in now,that's pathetic.It could've been alot worse,but it sure didn't work out like the instructions said!I'm glad mine aren't ceramic coated,because they would be so scarred up by the time I got them in that it wouldn't matter!

 

Quote:
"i am about half way through the swap. the patriot headers are a pain. yea that guy beat hisfloor but i got a huge long sledge and where the frame over laps the body wont budge! his is laying nice and flat with plenty of room between but i got out the cutting wheel after 2 hours of beating it with no results (he said 10 mins and it looked like the pics.)"

Hey Kevs87Z28, sorry you had so much trouble. I posted the original Patriot header swap. I don't know what to say....that was no lie, it only took me about 10 minutes with a very small (2 lb) sledge. I did only bend the floor pan and not the sub frame. The floor pan on my car is VERY soft. I could almost bend it with my hand. You don't need to bend the frame. I dented mine and then found out it was not necessary.

I haven't been on here for a while. I try to keep up with the BB swaps I see on here but they all seem to point out the same frustrations.

Good Luck,

Boo.

 

Stephen,wanted to apologize,thank you for posting that link.I did not mean to seem ungrateful.That said,your right,they are far from bolt on,more like beat on!

Boo Boo Sean,It didn't look that bad to me,along about 4:00 yesterday,I was really wishing I had gone the patriot route!You found an innovative way to get around the high$$$ Hookers,and for that I commend you.If I hadn't tripped over such a good deal on the Hookers,I'd have done the patriots myself.If someone has a little trouble,it's certainly not on your shoulders.It's not like you promised an easy,problem free solution.
You did,however,offer an alternative to people with more ambition than cash,so if someone has trouble doing what you did,they need to keep in mind that they are still $300 or more better off than the Hooker setup,and probabley with little to no more headaches.

 

I've said it in many posts. The Hooker SuperComp BBC swap headers are the cheapest swap headers and are the worst fitting. Nobody gets them in without some sort of modifications. They're designed as a street header and I wish I knew what car Hooker used as a mock up because they don't fit anything. At least with a big tube race header, modifications are expected.

After seeing the instructions, you now realize that they don't help at all. I was in the same position when I first put some Hookers on my car. 9 hours later, I had them in. My Ed Quay headers were not much better but with the big primary tubes, I was already expecting problems.

 

I guess I should consider myself lucky,I only spent 4 hours on mine,but 31/2 were spent on the passenger side
What HP level would you call the Hookers spent at?I ask because I'd like to add Brodix heads and upgrade induction in the near future,along with my favorite,nos.

What really saddens me is how expensive Hooker products are.They are always,in my experiance,of a good quality,but poor fit.And that's on several different applications.I guess since they are the only ones in the game who make an entry level header for the swap,they can tell us to bend over and like it.

 

I was pushing at least 600 hp through mine.

Hookers are still cheaper than a set of real third gen large tube BBC headers. How about a starting price of $1500 for some Lemons etc.

 

You speak the truth.

 

I'm about to order my hooker super comp headers for my 86 and after reading all the trouble had with fitting them on , I am glad I am not doing the work this time around . Although I do feel left out of all the fun

 

Whoever installs those headers is going to have to beat the crap out of your firewall, cut seams in your floorpan, beat in header tubes around your crossmember, and maybe even beat them in near the passenger frame rail. You really want to pay somebody to hammer up your car and headers? I wouldn't let anybody take a hammer to my car. They just won't care to the same level as an owner.

Another big draw back to the Hooker headers, in my mind, is the exhaust dumps under the rocker rails. Basically, your exhaust will be visible from the side of the car. Tacky. Side pipes went out of style in the '70s.

I had Lemons Headers make a set of Tri-Y headers that dump right by the oil pan of my TH400 tranny. No body mods necessary and exhaust can be run down the center of the car. You can use Hooker 3-inch long tube header Y-pipes with a Mufflex 4-inch single exhaust. All you need is a short pipe to connect the headers to the Y-pipe. Clean looking and serviceable with production parts.

 

I'm thinking I should be there to help out(and keep an eye out on the abuse). It's weird having someone else work on my car . It's just that we agreed I would leave it up to him (the engine builder) but we didn't agree on the external engine . At that moment my confidence was down as far building a BBC seeing as I had another problem with my 383 engine I had just built about 4 months prior. It's been hard letting someone else build my engine but this guy is someone I trust because I've seen his work first hand.

 

I got off work a couple hours early today,so I snuck out to the shop and played for a little while .Got all the pulleys on,oil filter back on from the header install,starter,oil pres. gauge,fuel pump on/lines attached,and carb installed.I have misplaced a couple of pieces to my March alt. bracket,got those ordered.Down to the nitty gritty little stuff now.
I also ordered a set of those really cool Brodix cast aluminum valve covers,I'm almost giddy over them! I know,It makes me a poser.I'm not a bling bling kinda guy,but I've always wanted a set,and never would spend $120 for them.Hopefully sooner than later,I can get the heads that go under them!

All in all,I can't say how pleased I am with performance yet,but I've never been dissapointed by a bigblock.But as far as the swap goes,I can't say I'd discourage anyone from it.I am sure it would be a lot more of a chore if it was an A/C car,and having at least basic fabrication skills/equipment is a huge help.Yeah the header situation sucks,but a little patience and a big hammer will get you where you want to go.Having hands about the size of a 5 year old would also be nice at times.The only real obstacle I can see ahead of me now is exhaust.I rebuilt the floorpan under the back seats to fit my mufflers and allow them to tuck up under the car,so it may be a challenge to get from where the headers dump at the rocker panel to the mufflers.I've done my own exhaust for a few years now,but I may give in and let a muffler shop handle this one.

I probabley won't get to play any this weekend,My 10 month old son is having surgery in the morning,probabley hang out in the house with him this weekend.

Can't wait to post performance results,Please pray for my 9 bolt!!

 

I hope everything turns out ok with your little boy.

 

Thanks man,that means alot to me.It is not major surgery,but it's still more than any small child should have to go through.I'm dreading it,but it's got to be done.

 

Finally,after 2 months of delays and distractions,she's alive!I've only driven it about a 1/2 mile,due to a lack of exhaust and dissapproving neighbors.But so far,I'm very pleased.It's got a better seat of the pants feel from a dig,and from what I can tell from idling around the lot beside my shop,it will be SO MUCH more drivable than the roller 406 it replaced.
I'll be back on the streets as soon as all the mandrel bends I ordered come in,so I can fab up my new exhaust.I'm throwing a couple of pics on,sorry for the poor quality,my camera phone is the only source I'm smart enough to master!

 

Fabbed an exhaust together today,a real PITA with the headers dumping at the rocker.Ground clearence kinda sucks,not that it's that great to begin with.

I got about 2 hours of drive time in,too.Feels GOOD!Pulls even harder than the 406 did,but MUCH friendlier to drive.Only an official timeslip will tell the tale.I'm planning to drive it to work a couple of times this week,try to work in some EGT tuning,and hit the strip!Once I've done that,I'll post the times,and let this thread die.

One last note:I changed absolutely nothing on the front suspension,and I can feel little if any difference in handling.I'm sure if it were an autocross car,there would be a noticable difference in handling.But for a street/strip car,the difference is transparent.