Heres the deal, I am a newbie at this stuff so excuse any stupid questions.


I just bought a 1988 Camaro with a L03 305 TBI. A friend of mine has a L69 305 High Output in his 88 Monte SS which he will be removing.


The question is, would swapping my L03 for this L69 be feasible and if so, would it be worth it? He says that the L69 being a 305 can actually produce as much if not more power than a 350. Is this true?


He only wants between $300-$400 for the engine and it already has a nice edelbrock cam in it which sells for $220 alone.


Should I go for it or what?

 

I wouldn't even consider it. I think you would find that all the effort and money involved in an L03 to L69 swap would be better spent on the L03 without removing it. They are both 305s and the L69 if I remember correctly was only rated about 20 HP more than the L03, not to mention its older technology. If you're going through the effort of an engine swap, go for something with more cubes like a 350. Otherwise put that money into the L03, make sure its in good tune, and do some of the ultimate TBI mods found here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/technical-articles

The comment about the L69 capable of making more power than a 350 is a load of crap. Put that $400+ and the hours of labor involved in an engine swap (not to mention extra tack-on costs of a swap) into that L03 and you can have an engine that would smoke the stock L69. Offer him $20 for the dual snorkel air cleaner set up (if it had one, not sure if the L69 on the Monte was different than the one on the F-Bodies, take this with a grain of salt) and throw it on your L03

IMO its nowhere near enough of a step up to justify a swap.

 

I wouldn't say it's completely pointless. The heads on the L69 are much better than the swirl port garbage heads on the LO3.

 

I'm not saying its totally pointless either, i mean heck it is a better engine after all, and if the L03 is on its way out it may be worth it. However I dont think it would be wise if the L03 is if good shape or the L69 is in anything less than excellent shape. I guess you need to make your decision based on the condition of your L03, the condition of the L69. Do some research and see what each one is capable of and put that up against how comfortable you are doing the swap and how prepared you are.

 

Well that pretty much settles it then, not worth the effort from what it sounds like.


My plan is to continue researching and looking for a good engine to swap in (mostly likely a 350). Any suggestions of what to look for? Then when winter comes around and I pull the camaro off the road I can do the work then.


Anyways, while Im here, which intake manifold would best upgrade my 305TBI? ----->

Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifolds
or
Edelbrock Performer Air-Gap Intake Manifolds

There is a $90 difference between the two, is it worth it to go with the more expensive one?

 

about the intake manifolds-- I've heard good things about the Air Gap manifold. I mean it does push the throttle body (or carb) up a little bit more. Making the runners longer, which in theory, will give you more bottom end torque. Also, they say that the Air Gap manifold is rated for more RPM's then the regular mainfold. Up to 6500 I think. I'd say gey the Air gap, do a search for it because I've think you may have to modify the intake if your using a throttle body, if your using a carb you should be fine.

 

I did some searching and found a lot of info on the air gap intake, but nothing about modifying it for the throttle body.


Does anyone know if I would have to modify it for TBI and if so how?

 

The swap is pointless!

Stock for Stock the swirlies are better than the 416s.

The L69 had more compression, more cam, a 4 bbl, and better exhaust than the L03. The L69 only made 180 FWHP vs. the L03s 170 FWHP. A full exhaust will give the L03 more power than a L69 can make stock.

The last L03s made 175 FWHP @ 4,200 and 275 ft/lbs @ 2,800. Performance with this engine would be better than a stock L69. I have a 1994 L03, with 289,000 miles on it, still runs strong. With mild mods, it runs much better than stock. It has pulled 4,800 lbs to an average of 10.95 @ 63.47 with a 2.55 60' time in the 1/8. I have $300.00 into the mods including a tune-up. Bonestock after the tune-up it averaged 11.36 @ 58.26 It still has the factory (almost 300,000 miles)pellet box cat and factory restrictive muffler on it as well.

http://fullsizechevy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207863

 

The 416 heads are better than the crap swirlports. The L69 in the f-body was rated at 190hp, not 180. And I thought you said a while back you had an LE9 in your van, not an L03.

 

Swapping the whole engine would be pointless because they are essentially the exact same thing.

If I were in your position, I would decide whether the benefits of fuel injection outweigh the ease of tuning a carb. If you have a good idea of how to tune TBI cars, then stick with that and mod it. If you are old school and mechanically inclined, swap all of the good stuff from the L69 over to the LO3 and buy aftermarket parts to replace the rest.

If you do decide to swap over to the L69 setup, you're going to need the carb, distributor, all of the various wiring, and possibly the heads and that's about it. Then buy aftermarket headers, a high flow cat, 3" catback, a new cam and P&P the L69 heads. You'll have an engine that will demolish either of the previous setups.

 

my 88 iroc had an L69 swapped in by the previous owner he kept the TBI with L69 and added an upgraded prom. I only got to run it once before breaking something but it ran a 14.2. And seeing as my buddies 89 350 Iroc ran a 14 flat with a shift kit. They run about even so. But I had a 5 speed and his is of course an auto. You could swap parts in your lo3 and be the same as an L69 almost. just change the heads, and cam mainly.

 

The 187s are not CRAP! They surpassed PORTED 416s in power from off-idle all the way through 4,200 RPM while using LESS fuel on a LARGE cammed 305 (Dewey316). With a stock cam the I would be very suprised to see the 416s pull away until around 5,000 rpm or so. By then it is over anyway, the 187 swirl port equiped car is in front of you with a healthy lead. I have made 240 to the wheels with STOCK 187 (cut for lift only, no port work, no bowl work, no chamber deshrouding, etc) headed 312, running more cam, bigger headers, bigger exhaust, X-pipe, dual plane intake, etc..

The HP rating came from the top of my head from the MonteSS. The difference was the dual snorkel air cleaner, put it on the L03 and you get the same 10 HP. Bolt the L69 exhaust, terrible as it may be onto the L03 and pick-up 10-15 more HP. The L03 in a F-Body came with 2 1/4" after-Y pipe exhaust, it is HORRIBLE for ANY car, even stock.

Nothing really wrong with the swirlies. Especially if you abuse them with a dremel a little. The pictures aren't the clearest, but I am working with some 810s (HD 350 version of the 187s)







The 810s in the picture are on my 355 in my 1980 C10, 14.6s with a 204/214 cam, so far.



My current 350 with the STOCK long-block (1.6:1 roller rockers, stock GM roller cam) has put down 218/339 through stock cast iron exhaust, with the 7 bladed engine driven fan, etc. It uses 810s, STOCK, never been off the crate engine.

PS- My 1983 G20 came from GM with a LE9(180/255). I recently picked up a 1994 G10 that has the L03. My 1983 currently has a GM Crate 350 TBI (Stock Replacement for a L05 in a Medium duty truck chassis).

Carbed 305(Yeah, I had red vacuum hoses, get over it)



TBI 305 (187s, then ported 081s, then ported 187s)



TBI 355



312 TBI that eventually made 301 RWHP with TBI



312 TBI that made 240 RWHP the way it looks here (stock 187s, big crane roller cam)