Hello,

I am new to the camaro world and have recently bought a 1987 Iroc-z with a 305 TPI (thrown rod) and 700R4 trans. I was thinking about installing a 383 stroker carb. crate motor from summit: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku

What I was wondering is, will this fit right into my car? Is my trans ok with this swap (w/new torque converter). What obstacles will I encounter? Will I have to stiffin up my frame? etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,
Tony

I'd be interested to see how you'll get the 305's stock powersteering to hook up to the new motor. Is there a bracket avail? What about the throttle cable? The new Carb will sit in a very different spot than the old TPI setup.

Otherwise you'd def want to stiffen up that frame, your 305 is about 150-200 HP weaker than your new stroker.

You have t-tops?

Hey Viking-

Thanks for the info, this is exactly what I am looking for in feed back! I need to know just what I am getting myself into if I do this. If this is not a good swap what is for more HP? and yes I have T-tops.

Thanks, Tony

If you have t-'s, you'll def want to add the sub frame connectors. http://www.spohn.net/?action=shop&pcid=1029

Its a good swap, just need to wait for some better responses than I can give you in regards to the little stuff that can casuse you a big delay. But the 700R4 should be up to the task, might want to swap out for a better T/C and maybe have the thing beefed up a little. Should not cost too much.

Welcome aboard thirdgen.org, ajh87iroc.

PS isn't a problem, it bolts back on the way it came off.

Fuel delivery is an issue you'll have to address, as the TPI fuel pump supplies way to much pressure for carb (the TPI system has a pressure regulator in it). Probably the simplest solution is to get a return-style regulator such as the Mallory 4309 - but it must be return-style, or you'll burn out the in-tank electric pump.

In my opinion, subframe connectors are a must regardless of engine or roof. The window corners in my car were cracked when I got it, and it only had a V6 then. They were repaired after I put subframe connectors in, and I haven't had a problem since.

The TH700R-4 should be rebuilt with upgrade stuff to handle the power. It will "work" without it, but won't last long. The Transmission and Drivetrain forum has plenty of information about that topic.

When the crate arrives, sell the carb and get a real one.

Thanks Five7kid!

So this is a good swap then, with the installation of the subframe connectors. Do you know if they stock hood will fit or do I need one with a cowl? Any other advice before I take the plung and order? I just want to insure this swap will work without too much pain. Thanks!

You won't need a cowl hood if you use a drop-base air cleaner.

Subframe connectors are a must regardless. They are not the only issue that needs to be addressed to go to that engine.

By any chance do you have emissions inspection or testing to be concerned with?

Yes PA has a yearly emissions inspection. What does this mean???? More problems I am sure....

Also you mentioned exchanging the carb that comes with the crate motor, whats your suggestion for a better one?

Thanks

If you have yearly emissions than you probably won't pass with that engine. The cam might have to much overlap(increase HC's). You need to get and engine that the cam has a c.a.r.b number. Don't really know a whole lot about emissions. Never had to worry about them.Hope that will help a lil. You'd be better off jumping in and building your own engine. Find a good machine shop in your area that'll help you out. You can make sure all parts that go in are emissions legal. Goodluck

Consider this:
http://www.sdparts.com/product/SD360...ripEngine.aspx

You'll need to add aftermarket runners and throttle body, headers, and 350 knock sensor. You might need the EGR kit if your area sniffs for NOx.

I know if you dig deep enough it says it isn't emissions-certified, but I doubt they'll dig that deep when you take it in for your inspection.

I looked at the SD360 as an option as well and is next on my list if the 383 stroker wouldn't work. If I go this route would I still need to add subframe connectors?

I've already said it twice in this thread alone, but I'll say it again if necessary:

"GET SUBFRAME CONNECTORS!"

depends on the county... PA has emissions testings for certain counties. I thought there are some counties that dont require testing. Most i believe are just tail pipe sniffer tests and no visual inspection.


that motor you have listed at 405 hp is pretty mild for a 383, so you should beable to pass with a conservative tune and good cat converter. depends on the cam but i cant imagine it being very aggressive

the SD360 with the hotcam i would think would be harder to pass than the 383 IMO. hotcam has more overlap on a smaller cube motor so it may have some issues. Plus you'll need to get a chip tuned for it

Got it, sorry for being repeating myself...

Reports are it sniffs very clean. SD says no chip change, but I'm sure it would run even better - and possibly cleaner - with a well-done PROM tune.

TPI is bound to sniff cleaner than an open loop carb.

In Lancaster county they do perform emissions testing. I did however find out that if the vehicle travels under 3000 miles a year it can be exempt.

Thanks Orr89RocZ for the tip on the "hot cam", I was leaning towards the SD360 but now with your tip I think I am back on the 383 stroker. Thanks!

Does anyone else have any advice on the 383? It would be greatly appreciated!

Looks like we posted at the same time.

To repeat, TPI will sniff cleaner than an open loop carb. And get better fuel mileage.

So five7kid, what would your recommendation be? The SD360 or the 383 for the 305 tpi swap? I see that you are very knowledgeable about these cars so, I really value your opinon and thanks for all the help so far!

Fuel injection will pass better than carb IF you can tune that thing. There are better cams than the hotcam that would make similar power in that motor yet pass emissions easier as well. So thats an option. Possibly have SD swap out the cam for you before you order and charge just abit more money. Something like CC502 or CC503 cams from comp come to mind. Both these cams have less overlap than the hotcam so it should help emissions.

The hotcam on a stock 350 prom will run, but it will be rich and may not pass emissions with stock chip. simple tuning stuff will be needed, just some idle timing settings, and fuel changes to lean it out some. Then you gotta do the driveability part throttle tuning to make it drive like stock. It wont be that bad with the stock chip, but sooo much nicer with a proper tune. Last is wide open throttle stuff. Thats pretty easy to do with a laptop and chip burner on a dyno. Just simple fuel and timing adjustments while watching dyno wideband air fuel monitor. Else you'll want your own 02 sensor to test on the street. That motor will not make 360 hp on stock chip and you'll need bigger tube runners to make that power too. stock runners will kill power by 20-25hp


EGR of the TPI will help the sniffer test. The carb motor wont have it so it will suffer more on idle sniffer test. A good clean cat converter tho may be all thats needed, but its hard to say for sure. I know you can easily get a 383 to pass, and with vortec heads with their good burning combustion chamber and a relatively small cam, i think it should pass just fine with a cat.

That blueprint 383 is using a larger cam than i expected for that hp rating.
234/244 110 lsa .487 / .508. that thing may require more than a cat to pass, its hard to say. its got some overlap on it but the bigger cubes may be able to eat some of it up. Not sure of how strict PA emissions are, but i'd go with a slighly smaller cam than that to be safe, maybe somethign with a wider lsa or just less duration.

Considering the extra stuff involved with getting the SD360 up and running right, a carb may seem alot better, but fuel injection is alot better on the street as far as driveability goes and mileage. I feel its worth the tuning troubles.

My recommendation would be LT1 or LS1.

But, if you're limiting your choices to those two,

Back to first principles - does it have to be a crate engine? Would you be willing to put something together yourself?

But, if you're limiting your choices to those two, I think you'd be amazed and happy with the SD Vortec TPI 360. Orr89RocZ has a lot more experience with TPI than I do, so I'll defer to his call.

Besides, the post-surgery drugs have probably worn off by now. . .
Never, NEVER forget:you get what you pay for. . .

My motivation is some hope of paying it forward.

The reason that I am limiting my choices to a crate engine, is because I don't know that much about putting that much of a motor together, i.e. crank, pistions, cam, valves, etc to the event of matching things up to make it work properly. With a create I can drop it in and run it along with a warranty. I wish I did know more, but I am working on it. Thank you, Orr89RocZ and TGO for all the help, without you guys I would have jumped right into this. You guys are helping me more that you'll know!!!!

You'll be very happy with scoggin dickey crate, its just gonna need some more work to get "right" so to speak since it will require some tuning work to be optimal, just like a carb setup, but EFI is soo much more involved and features such precise adjustability that carbs dont offer.

When i say involved, i dont mean harder but there are some things you need to learn about whats all in the software. I just got into it earlier this year and now i think/feel i'm ready to tackle a fairly aggressive 383 build from base stock 350 chip Take some time to read up on things and buy some equipment and start playing with it, you'll catch on quick. I as well as many on this board could guide you on how to tune that car. I dont think you'll have to make many changes. if you were closer to me, i could try getting the tune down in a day or so else try to get a mail order from FASTCHIP or PCMforless. two of the better chip burning places. They both should beable to get a decent tune for a hotcammed 350 TPI car. Hell if you bought the software, i'm sure someone may even send you a bin program for free thats already tuned for a hotcammed L98, and get you running.

That sd360 crate is a pretty good value for the money too.

thank you, guys! you have been a great help!

Orr89RocZ, in order to get a chip made, do I just call them and fill them in on what I have installed and the make a chip from there and send it to me? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have never had to have a chip made before.... thanks again

This is a great post. Just tonight I was looking at both of these engines and tried to decide which one I should pull the trigger on. I am going to either go with the SD or try to build one myself with the help of my NYTHIRDGEN club.

If your somewhat mechanically inclined lol, you can have a good engine shop make up a basic rebuild shortblock for you, and may even install the cam for you. All you need to do is bolt on a set of vortec heads and vortec TPI, and your basically have that SD motor for alot less than what they sell it for since you did most of the labor yourself

Sorry for the long span for this reply, but I had to go to Alaska for work. I will start a new thread for "305 to SD Vortec 360 swap" just in case someelse is looking to do this.

Thanks for all the help!