kennn

I have this from Jegs, package 1: http://www.jegs.com/p/GM+Performance...10002/-1/10763

It runs good and puts about 325 ft-lbs to the wheels on a Dynapack. I really picked it up for mockup to make sure that fitment is good and all the bugs are sorted out. Now that everything is kosher, I'm looking for the biggest, baddest small block Chevy crate motor I can find

I like crate motors because they have warranty and will most likely be cheaper than anything I can build (if I knew how to assemble a motor )

Ideally I'd like a first gen small block since that's what my car is set up to take.

I was looking at this:

http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/101011.htm

Costs about $12k and should be good for me. I daily and roadrace a little bit so I'd like something with low maintenance.

Comments? Suggestions? Ridicule?

89importeater

sure you could use that but i dont know if i would use it for a DD

AlkyIROC

Buying a crate motor can be from mild to wild. Some crate motors are not very streetable.

The engine you have listed is nothing more than a mild stock replacement engine.

Here's a nice 434 that puts out 800hp
http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/en...man-18deg.html

Or a more modest 434 engine that will run on pump gas and puts out just over 600hp
http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/en...ro-street.html

There are many more available like that.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/p..._454sbc_tt.pdf

nuff said.

89importeater

forget all that crap, if money isnt an issue forget the SBC and get one of these http://www.buckracingengines.com/forsale.html although i would probably swap out the 10bolt if thats what you have because i dont think it would hold up for more that a couple passes.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/p..._572bbc_tt.pdf

kennn

Thanks for all the links. Some of the recommendations are way off from what I'm looking for but it's fun to look at nonetheless.

Fyrstorm

iTrader: (1)

Have you looked at GM? They also have turnkey but maybe not the HP you are looking for. Like five7kid said to me in my engine thread, that oil pan on that motor you linked is a bit overkill for street use (clearance issues among others). It's where I got mine, 2 year / 80 000km warranty. More than enough HP for a daily and decent mileage. Depends on what your ratio of daily to racing is I suppose.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Parts/showcase.jsp

kennn

I hear you. The oil pan will have clearance issues. I've already accepted that.

I should probably get a ZZ383 and be done. I bet you I can probably get 500 ft-lbs out of that motor with a set of good heads, cam, intake, and carb.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

i know its overkill, but you asked for the baddest!

kennn

I know. I got what I asked for.

My main concern would be reliability and how much maintenance those motors require.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

blueprint engines would be a good source for a 383. decently priced i might add.

Batass

zz383 with just a bigger cam should get close to 500 ft/lbs. The fastburn heads arent good for the money though. Some good iron dirt track heads are just as good and almost half the cost.

whiley

sounds like its not 'skys the limit' type budget, and you want to stay 1gen SBC for fit
go i agree with above ^^^ go with a bad-ars 383, there are lots available, something with really good aluminum heads, and roller camshaft, and decently high compression

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

No you didn't....



.... now you did!

grover85

iTrader: (1)

Thats not a bad price for what you get.

Batass

Not really assuming that there's a good bit of extra power to be had while sacrificing the "super reliability".

I bet it would get close to 3000 if you ran methanol......can you say 5 second quarter mile?

kennn

Now THAT would be excessive

All I'm really looking to do in terms of maintenance is change fluids, filters, and maybe plugs once in a while. Outside of those things, I really don't care too much to be working on the engine every week. Lord knows I got enough going on with the rest of the car to spend time fixing the motor.

Everyone is constrained by budget so I suppose that's a given assumption.

Plus I daily my car so it's gotta run on pump gas.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

I say go with a mild engine setup with a procharger or some other form of boost. Easier to dd if you want, simple maint., good gas mileage, etc.

Or if you are an NA sort of guy, go LSx block with 454 internals, some all pro heads, HUGE solid roller and a sheetmetal intake. Probably be around the same price as the above crate engines but would make SICK horsepower. A college (S.A.M) in Texas build a 500 cubic inch LS1 based engine that put out something like 7-900hp at the crank.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

suprised no one mentioned this one.. by far best bang for the buck

472 small block... this is the baddest streetable small block crate i think

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/472_classic.asp

next best would be LSX series and the new block for 480-500 cubes

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ You gotta love how they embellish "custom" camshaft, while witholdding specs. For 12,000.00+ I want a damn cam card along with it....

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

You better be prepared to spend mega bucks for suspension, transmission, and rear end if you want reliability out of 600 ft. lbs. of torque. What transmission are you going to run? Do you have SFC's ,torque arm? tubular control arms, Panhard bar etc... Why not get a GM Crate 5.7 350/????HP for under $4000 and then put the rest into other aspects of your car so that it's safe and reliable?

kennn

Thanks for your concern, but that's a lot of assumptions about facts not in evidence .

This is a motor thread. I don't want to discuss other aspects of my car right now.

Thanks for the advice but I know what I need to do, for the most part I'm just fishing for good crate motor ideas in this thread.


If you're curious, I plan on upgrading the T5 to a Richmond 6-speed when I upgrade the current motor. My rear end has been known to hold up to 500 ft-lbs in competition cars, so for DD it should be ok. If not I plan on upgrading to a Ford 9". The car weighs 2,500lbs fully loaded without driver. The suspension is McPherson front/multi-link rear with coilovers. There is really no need to retune the suspension unless I'm adding significantly more front end weight, like a BB. My suspension is modeled after competition cars putting out 500ftlbs as well. That's why I want to stay with a small block

Like I said, this is not your average Camaro with blown suspension, no offense to those with blown struts/shocks

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

Maybe you could start another thread in the suspension catagory. I'd love to see pictures of it. Sounds like it's dialed in.

kennn

I don't think you'll like what you see

I must confess. I don't really have a thirdgen . I have a custom street rod and I modeled the drivetrain after the thirdgen because of factory support, cost and availability.

That's why if I went with a big block or LSx, I really wouldn't have a reason to come here any more because there are other forums dedicated to those drivetrains.

You guys for the most part are a cool bunch so I wouldn't want that to happen

Batass

Lol, I was kinda getting that feeling. I think everyone would want to see it anyway. lol confessions.

This is a damn fine forum.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

oh i'm sure you'll get one once you place the order

tilstad

This seems like a bargain, never seen this engine before;

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=4

480 HP LS series engine new from GM for only 6350,- ??

Only 25 less HP than the LS7, and under half the price. Sounds like a good deal. Seems like it has variable valvetiming, and perhaps even cylinder deactivation technology...All in a "stock" very streetable package...wow!


I gotta read up on this baby

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yep they have L92 based heads which are very similar to Ls7 heads. all you have is less cubes tho but still can get great power from them LSx motors

paul_huryk

If you want to go all out, an LSX motor is the way to go - for many reasons.

1) They are very easy to make big power and are designed to be very strong, even with stock parts
2) Dropping one into an iron block/iron head car chops 150lbs of weight off your front end
3) No hood clearance problems with factory intake manifold
4) Will bolt up to automatic or manual transmissions (assuming you have the right one)
5) The cathedral heads offer excellent flow without totally killing bottom end TQ like a 225cc+ SBC can on a sub 400ci motor
6) Stock ones look the same as modified ones from the outside

Batass

That is a good deal. I spent a little more than that building my sbc that probably only makes 450-475 N/A. Paid 3k for the shortblock assembly.

The LS3 is 350 bucks less, swap the cam for that much and make an easy 500hp.

If I would have done that, I would have a car that I could drive more often and not spew raw fuel out the A$$ end.

kennn

I hear you and agree with everything, but the only problem is that I will have to start over with fabrication. Everything, and I mean everything, in my car is dialed in for first gen small blocks.

Now if I drop in an LS I would have to basically start over from scratch and sell everything I have. Not necessarily a bad thing, but the fabrication would be wasted

Such a dilemma

Batass

Well Id say if you want a wild true street car, LSx is the only way to go.

kennn

I'm really saving the LSx for my second car that I'm getting ready to build

Batass

Id try to find something fuel injected. Very low maintenance. There's so many options out there.

antman89iroc

Ok coming back down to earth now. The 454 SBC you found looks pretty good to me. Is it the "baddest"? No. Like being the "fastest" -there's always someone faster.

If you want 600 HP that'd be a good choice. And not to question your power level but that's a lot. I'm running a L98 ~ 350hp NA and a 250 wet shot and let me tell you that's a lot of power in a third gen! No it's not the fastest. Mid to low 12's. But it's set up for street. Daily driver with cruise and A/C.

I'm not suggesting you run nitrous. I'm just saying that 1500-2000HP is a whole other world. A 600HP SBC (or BBC for that matter) can be mated up with properly prepared factory trannys and rears for daily driver reliability. Sounds to me you want "turn key" service that you're not having to adjust valves and do other periodic stuff to. If that's what you want then you can get there without anything exotic IMO.

But... Those TT's and 700+ci engines are awesome!

Batass

600hp IS quick on the street. Thats probably what i was making with low boost and I ran out of road quick, not to mention low speed traction problems.

N/A I had around 450-475 and that was quick but another 50 would be kick *** in a street car.

I take it your car is pretty light also. Depending on how light your car is, really determines how much low end tq you need.

That 454 would be bad A$$ no doubt, but I think you could do much better for the money.

antman89iroc

Great ain't it! Traction... What's that? 1st gear is part throttle at best on the street. At the track though

kennn

Thanks for the comments.

Right now I'm pretty much stuck with the carb'ed first gen because I don't want to redo my mounts or rewire the car, or get all new accessories to make it work. I'll definitely do an LSx on my backup car when I start building that.

Right now the car weighs about 2,500 fully loaded without driver. This is my daily so I will be adding some insulation as well.


So right now I'm looking for:

1) gen I sb
2) carb
3) zero maintenance, as much as possible
4) long block, I can reuse all of my accessories except for possibly the carb depending on the motor

#3 pretty much throws out nitrous and forced induction.

Right now the current $2,200 crate motor is putting out 325 ft-lbs at the wheels, which should be adequate. You would think

GTA_IN_T.O

how about this motor for about 5k......

wont let me put a direct link.......


http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Pa...l.jsp?engine=0


on the far right zz383

Batass

I think that 454 might be your best bet. To get that much power reliably out of a small block, youd have to go forced induction. I've been doing some reading on the stroked and bored 400's and seems the reliability is greatly questioned.

A 436 would def be cheaper and same power, but the stroke puts a lot of side load onto already weak cylinders. That is what I read anyway.

Not sure where your from, but that 454 is going to be difficult in the cold months.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The ZZ383 is a very good engine. It has Fast Burn heads, which require a Vortec-style intake manifold. It ain't the "baddest" thing out there, but it has plenty of power and maintains street manners.

Threads like this are really close to meaningless, because there is no way the "baddest" SBC crate is going to be zero maintenance nor daily driver. As always, it's better to discuss use, goals, and budget, and go from there.

I second the ZZ383 for meeting:

1) gen I sb
2) carb
3) zero maintenance, as much as possible
4) long block, reusing all accessories (a CC carb would even work with it)

If your budget can handle it. . .

Batass

The fastburn heads are great, but I think that engine wastes them. Similiar power can be made with cheaper vortecs and more low end tq to boot.

If you kept the zz stock anyway.

If the guy has the money for a hardcore 454 why sell him the zz? Would the zz be any more reliable?

antman89iroc

I think the 454 is right if you can afford it. No substitute for cubic inches, right?

On the other hand, although it technicly doesn't "fit the bill", the ZZ383 certianly is interesting since it's a long block you can put some $ into a good EFI system for reliability. And that short block could easily handle 250 on the spray. So how does a solid 650hp on the juice with the "economy" of a 450hp 383 sound? And for the same $12000 or less. You could even spray it later as budget permits. Just a thought...

kennn

Well, on one end you have full race motors that probably need some sort of attention after at least every race or even more frequently.

I want to go to the other extreme where I don't have to do anything in terms of maintenance. So reliability is going to cap how much power can be had. I have accepted that.


Right now I'm toying with 383 or 454. I would really like the 454 even if it's a little more expensive because there's no replacement for displacement

There was a full tube chassis drag car with a small block 271cid on the dyno before me. Even though he revved to 12k RPM, he only made 50 ft-lbs more than my stock 350cid crate motor.

It's insane because he has a built motor with holley and race fuel from what I saw. I don't know what he has inside.

But even with all that, he didn't make much more torque than me

Grizzle B

iTrader: (1)

I've looked for a very good crate engine the best one I found was from yearOne. it make over 400hp for only $2,995!

it comes with a 2 year warranty.

the best value I have found

antman89iroc

Yep, and as long as the larger engine isn't "wilder", it should be more reliable- horse power to horse power. Larger engines generally make the same power at lower revs and that means big torque which really gives a car a lot of "grunt"!

Grizzle B

iTrader: (1)

Forced induction KILLS big cubes less weight and at least the same power

antman89iroc

Are you saying big block vs small block with forced induction? I believe the 454 we're looking at here is based on the small block. So no weight penalty for 383 vs 454 cubes. Now I have no experience with forced induction here but one goal is super reliability with little maintenance. Forced induction does add another level of complexity. Parts left out cost nothing and never fail!

kennn

I agree. I really do not like adding complexity. The fewer moving parts the better.

This is the reason I went with a simple sbc instead of some exotic turbo setup. Now if we start adding too many parts to the motor then it starts defeating the purpose of why I went to the sbc to begin with.

Nothing wrong with forced induction, but I don't want any part of it.