Hi, say if i would get a 2.0 lsj ecotech engine, do u think it could be put in a 3rd gen fairly easy? Also found a t5 bellhousing adapter for it on Quads for rods. What other challenges am i agaist? thanx

 

it would take a good amount of fab work but ull have plenty of room. Not to bash but why are you wanting to do this?

 

Well i think it would be pretty sweet to see an ecotec in a camaro. sure its not the most logical thing if ur just looking for hp but it definatly would b different than a common v8 or ls swap. It probably would have fairly good street manners also. thanx for ur imput.

 

Probably its one of the few 4cyl engines that can have a 500+ streetable hp and stay reliable. Turbo that sucker and your doing better than most of the v8's do in stock trim or with a little work.

With gas getting as bad as it is or will be, 4cyl and v6 swaps are looking more appealing. A while back I wanted to swap my 2.0 cosworth 4cyl into my camaro but it will not make the power the ecotec will (290 at 10,200) and pushing the heavy camaro would hurt it overall. If you have the money I would say do it but only if there is boost involved because N/A it will be slow and turbo's are fun on high reving 4cyl engines.

 

http://www.dragracingonline.com/features/ecotech_1.html

This is sweet! Only thing is that the parts aren't widely abvailable with the ecotech like the ls and first gen small blocks.

I know there are mounts that bolt to what is the front an rear of the engine as it sits in a J body. The front on is on the upper half and the back one is on the transmission. I can't remember if it has side mounting holes in the block or not. Best thing to do is to try and make a motorplate for the front of the engine.

I am sure you will save a TON of weight to, so you might have to look into some suspension mods. I know I can almost pick one of these engines up by myself.

 

ecotecs are GREAT motors. even a 2.2 has more power than a 2.8 did. it would take alot of work. and i mean alot. worth it? well. thats definitely up to you. it would be cool for sure.

 

don't you have a 350 in it?

 

yeah i have 86' with a 350 auto now. My buddie and i swapped out the 2.8 last summer in my car. But I actually am getting a 84' camaro this week with a 305 with a 5 speed for $500!!! It runs, drives and interior looks decent, just needs a carb and exterior cosmetic work. Very little rust on surface so i snatched that up quick!

 

If you left the motor NA, yea, big fat turd that wouldnt want to get out of its own way, but with boost, it cold even be under 3000 lbs with not too many more reductions.

 

Due to gas prices last year, I also considered this swap for a while. An ecotec straight out of a Solstice GXP or Sky Redline would have 300 hp after throwing a boost controller at it. The 6 speed would be nice, and its ready to go for rwd. Plus the light weight, and embarrassing some weak v8 car with a 4 banger.
My issue would be the awkward sound 4 cyls make, and hearing/seeing that noise from an f-body....

 

Yeah that would be strange, but have you heard the new 3.6 v6 in the 5th gen? It sounds like a little Farrari. It is strange but yet kinda cool. Plus if you put tons of boost on top of that, it would sound all right. A solstice GXP would be awesome becase it is DI and could run all kinds of boost with the correct timing!

 

Keep in mind that the old quad4's used the 60* V6 bellhousing. The New motor uses a unique round bellhousing so it'll only bolt to another Ecotec RWD trans or to a trans with an ECOtec specific adaptor.



A 3rd gen can be brought down to 300-2900 lbs easily enough and that puts it in the same range as the Cobalt coupe and sedan.

Go drive an SS version and see if you like the power/weight situation.

The newre turbo SS's are a lot better than the blown versions, dont even ask about the NA SS's lol.


I'd also look at just picking up a used SS. Your gutted and rattly Camaro wont be any faster than a Cobalt with similar power and it'll be a lot more comfortable.

 

That's not true. It's not dead on, just close. This is still pretty interesting. Anyone heard about GMs book on getting high horse power from the ecotec?

 

Oh this is great!

Well as an owner of a 06 Cobalt SS S/C for the past three years, and one who has raced it and built it up I feel I should give you some pointers.

The 2.0L LSJ engine is a great engine in factory form and even better in Stage 2 form (700 dollar dealer add on). Stock puts 205hp 200tq and Stage 2 puts out 245hp and 230tq. Not a bad deal for a 700 dollar add on.

In stock form I raced a 98 Trans AM with the LS1 and he blew me off by 5 cars each time except roll racing where he'd beat me by a 3 cars.

After stage 2 he could only beat me by 1 to 2 cars at most from a dig and in a roll it was a dead even race. He had the 3.23 gears by the way not the stock 2.73. So that shows you the engines have potential.

One of the better things with the LSJ is that like the old 305 motors they are torquey. But can hold the HP up unlike a 305.

Redline in stock form is 6500 in stage 2 its 7000.
Now there are some major drawbacks to the LSJ that GM Tuner Crowd (weird to say I know) has for the most part fixed.

The main concern is that the fuel system is return less.
This means that under certain circumstances it is possible for cylinder #4 to not recieve enough fuel and run lean. The most common blown cylinder is #4 for this reason just like #7 is the 305's. There are return fuel systems that have been designed for the LSJ I reccommend a company called Over the Top Performance they own and race there own Cobalts and sell kits such as a return system.

The LSJ has strong rods they are in fact forged but the pistons are not. (Don't ask me why GM thought that was a great idea?) The only benifit is the pistons and rods are made by Weisco. The same company that did the SRT-4 pistons. Common piston problems with the LSJ is piston rings burning up for various reasons. The engine can take a 55 shot as long as it's watched and some have tempted 75 shots of nitrous but most blow the engine around there.

The stock supercharger is the Eaton Roots GenVI M62. It makes effeciently up to 17lbs of boost. Stock is 12.5 and stage 2 is 16.
Eatons are known for there heat some common mods are bigger heat exchangers or dual exchangers or methanol injection to combat the heat.

Other upgrades include the TVS Eaton Supercharger which can make 24lbs of boost effiecently and with less heat then the M62. And generally puts down anywhere from 280hp to 340hp.

ZZP makes a dual charger setup. Using the M62 and a turbo there kit makes 440hp and 400lbs tq. Boosting around 23lbs. Don't worry the engine has been seen holding 26lbs of boost in stock form. Now certainintly the engines life is greatly reduced but it holds and while testing ZZP took it on race gas to 500hp and the only thing that finally gave was the stock clutch gave out . Kit cost 4 grand and they install it in shop.

So all in all its a great engine if you want to upgrade it's flaws then for a little 4 cyl it can kick some butt. Good luck man you'll need a transmission out of a sky or some other ecotech based system with RWD because the engine will not match a T-5 or other tranny with out a conversion bell housing which I haven't seen one so don't think it's been made.

Enjoy!

 

wolf. i think you're mistaken. stage2 blows. 'nuff said. honestly i wouldn't waste my time on the LSJ and just go with the 2.2L L61, turbo it. and call it done. parts are waaaaaaay cheaper for the L61, and the stock crank can hold more power the the lsj's. but first, a little background for ya. stock lsj's do not put out 205/200. and stage2 does not do 245/230. anyone with a TVS swap should be over 300whp. if they aren't they need to find a new tuner, someone who knows what theyre doing. my friend from ks, mo has one on his '07.....just under 400whp on his c16 tune. my cobalt. unported m62-just a tad above 300whp.

in other words, i wouldn't mess with the lsj, it gets too expensive for the amount of power you'll make. just swap in the 2.2L L61, turbo it-ported/worked head-nice fat intercooler-3" exhaust-3" charge piping-nice big turbo=ATLEAST400whp. for WAY LESS THAN YOULD SPEND GETTING THAT FROM THE LSJ

 

ok

Buddy you better be ready to back up your over 300hp un-ported LSJ.
I know what it takes to make a 300hp LSJ on the M62. Use to tune them.
The TVS on a 90mm (16lb or so) will make with a stock lsj engine and 60lb injectors around 280 and if a tuner pushes it can make around 300. Smaller pulleys mean bigger boost - at the expense of more heat, and then yes with a good tuner can make well over 300 hp.

So lets clear it up you drive a 06 LSJ Balt but your telling the original poster to get a 2.2l ecotech? And you claim the 2.2L ecotech (145hp) econo engine's crank will out beat the LSJ crank that was designed to hold boost and high revs? Sorry I have a hard time beliving that. As for cost of a 2.2L to a 2.0L LSJ? If you want that 2.2 to hold up get ready to put some money in pistons and rods.........and a crank and then get some heads or get head work. Plus better cams. Lets see what else?

LSJ ....throw a return style fuel system on it some bigger injectors and then turbo it or TVS or ZZP Twin turbo and your done. Again the engine has held 500hp stock!!!! Ask ZZP the thing that gave was the stock clutch! I'd like to see a 2.2L hold 500hp in stock internals and not blow.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...cs+page-2.html
They came with 205hp and 200 tq

and stage 2

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Coba...f59t4klXtCsyOS

245hp


I run 13.8 in my Balt before spray on stock tires so trust me I know what I'm talking about.

 

haha, look here
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/02.../photo_04.html

and here
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/02.../photo_04.html

full article
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/02...ing/index.html

needless to say, there is power to be had with these little boost hungry mills!

 

I was thinking about this swap when I still had my 94. On one of my old hard drives (probly the one that died) I had the GM hop up book for modding ecotechs up to 1000hp & what parts w/part numbers to get to do this. No mention of the tranny mods, but I do have a back issue of HPP mentioning that the drag car used a 4T65E tranny w/posi diff for the 1320.

SCore a donor block from a solstice/sky & other related parts and you're on your way.

 

There are proabably a dozen different variations of the 60* pattern.

Most if not all can be used with any other 60* style trans or motor with some slight mods. Usualy everything lines up perfect but one or more bolt hole is added, missing or relocated.



You are way off. The blown ss was rated at 205/200 while the N/A ss 2.2 was rated around 140-145. The Turbo SS is significantly higher though i forget the #'s, it's a seriously quick car in stock form.

The blown SS with all due respect isnt all that quick stock, my Mazda (161.5 WHP 151.5 WTQ) walks past them by 3rd.

I do understand the feeling of wanting to stick with the (slightly) larger motor but in a dollars and cents world the factory boosted motors win out every time.

 

just fab a turbo kit for your 350.

 

so is that why my ss did 231whp/205wtrq completely stock?? i think a person who owns two cobalts knows what he's talking about i own an '06 ss/sc and an '06 LS. and i highly doubt your mazda will "walks past them" with only 161/151. i have yet to see ANY ss/sc dyno 205 or lower. the 2.2 is useless unless turbo'd. and even then, don't expect anything greater than 360whp on the stock internals and head. and the turbo ss's aren't all that quick completely stock. they generally dyno anywhere from 235-270. but they get quick fast. with just a tune you will see low 300's(300-310). tune, charge piping, intake, full exhaust will net you mid 340's. but then top end fueling becomes a problem and the stock turbo is starting the push its max cfm. there is a K04 turbine wheel upgrade that you can do but you still have the fueling issue. GM does have a "Stage kit" coming out for the new ss's, much like they did with the supercharged ss's. but the aftermarket is already making that stage kit useless, unless you want your warrenty, because they already have parts out at lower cost and higher gains.


wow, then i'm sorry but you suck at tuning the LSJ then. my friend, who is probably one of the best tuners out there. has his TVS powered LSJ at just below 400whp on a 110octane tune. wann know what he did with 91 octane and the TVS 3.1" pulley??? 342whp/267wtrq. all he had was the tvs, 3.1" pulley, intake, header, downpipe, catback, valvesprings, and methanol injection. that is all. also, i don't know what youre talking about with heat issues, you must not have had any cooling mods. cause i have no problem with heat on my M62 and the tvs has very, very little issues...and hes running 26psi with it.

first off, ZZP does not have a twin turbo kit, its a twin "charge kit" using the stock m62 for lowend torque and the s20g, i believe is the turbo they use, for high end horsepower, but they didn't break 500, they made 465whp/414wtq. the return style fuel system from over the top performance is not something thats going to add power. its a safety backup for your injectors. all it just is keep even fuel pressure over all four so the IDC's PW's don't get crazy out of hand.

your car and driver and crateenginedepot ratings...are just that. ratings. not real world numbers. like i said, i have not seen ANY LSJ dyno at or lower than 205whp of a well mantained dyno. if it was on one of those stupid fairgrounds portable car show dynos...maybe, but not likely.

and your 13.8 is nothing special. i did that too, actullay it was 13.787@103 if you want to get technical about it. with only two modifications. along with, stock clutch, stock tires, stock mounts, stock exhaust, stock intake, stock axels, and full street weight. the "norm" for cobalts now is mid 12's to low low 13's

 

edit

 

there are four mounts for the 2.0L LSJ a passenger side motor mount, and three transmission mounts. i have some pictures, but keep in mind i've replaced all my mounts with aftermarket ones. these are pictures just to show the location. i just took these pictures straight out of the writeup i did on how to install these proporly

this is the passenger side, it is part of the the main block, crank case, whatever.


only the two lower transmission mounts are visibke, the one upper transmission mount is hidden by the fuse box. this is the lower, front transmission mount.

 

and here's the rear transmission mount.

 

seriously 4 posts!
cobalts are gay, can it already

 

Lol well please don't let the **** above give you the wrong impression most cobalt owners are cool and cobalts are capable just like any car. As for EXsoccer1921 if you would read my above post you'd see i never said the OTTP return fuel system made more power I said it was a protection because cylinder #4 is last in the line and can and has been shown to blow because of it.

Congrats you got a 13.787 on a stock car except two modifications...remeber anything over 55 shot is pushing it again if you read I said I did that with out nitrous. With nitrous I run in the low low 13's with a little 55 shot. Might be cuz I know how to A.) drive and B.) Tune but will get to that in a minute.

By the way the 13.8 run was on stage 2 with only a 2.5 downpipe and midlength header so bite me.

So you've never seen me tune...you've never seen my tunes, and your basing my ablilty to tune on what? What I said others usually get? Didn't say that was me bub. How bout this. Run timing at WOT at 25 degrees on a 2.8 pully with your only cooling system being an extra heat exchanger..cobra by the way not the bigger ones, on pump 93 gas with no knock on consecutive pulls then come talk to me about who can tune. By the way CSS.nets beloved Area47 has stated many times the LSJ's don't make any power after 24 degrees of timing. So kiss my ***.
And remember thats not on meth which by the way your losing power using meth but please don't start another flame war on css.net about it cuz the guys from AIS get mad and scream while Zoomer from ZZP gets in there and tries to give you guys some factual truth.

So keep spraying the 10 water / 90 methanol mix down your engines throat cuz we all know how engines like h20 in there system (hydrolock anyone?) Also you do know methanol burns clear right so you don't know when its on fire? Also methanol boils at 147 F how hot do engines get again ?

So do us all a favor keep the usual CSS.net bullshit on CSS and not bring it over here to TGO where people want unbiased opionions and real help not people telling them there stupid for wanting to try something.

Back to the original poster let us know what you need will give you a hand as best we can.

 

Ok lets first start of with your dyno numbers? What did you use to dyno with Dynolicious on your Iphone? Seriously unless it was a mustang dyno that was calibrated the day you got tuned or within a week of when you got tuned I am betting your numbers are high that is if you are telling the truth and those are "bone stock numbers". Just because you have two cobalts doesn't mean anything. Thats like saying because I own two x makes of a car means I know something it doesn't, sorry to get sand in your vagina. Didn't you just say above to get a 2.2 and turbo it instead of a lsj since the crank was stronger and then you say it'll only make 360 on stock internals. Twin charge a LSJ spend near the same money or so and make 100 more hp. Since they made 465 on race gas. BTW Stock Turbo SS's are keeping up with Stage 2 SS's so your saying your SS isn't that quick by logic. BTW I don't know what pulley you have, but stg 2 ss's have went 13.7-13.8 which is what u said u went below

Rofl....Its funny since the joke about eaton is they are called heaton's because of all the heat they generate. I have yet to see someone pop the hood of there S/C SS and touch the blower withing 5-10 minutes without using ice on it and not get burnt. So yes they have heat issues thats why they have heat exchangers for them along with other after market parts for cooling. As far as them breaking 500. It was posted by ZZP that the clutch lasted until after they upped the boost some more and went over 500hp on css.net, let me guess u missed that post somehow right? The numbers are from GM. You can't use dyno numbers since not every dyno is the same neither is every car so gm does an average of them and got the 205/200 for stock. Cool you did a 13.787@103 let me guess one of the mods is nitrous. I live in Florida and have been to the track with werewolf along with seen him tune. Before he started tuning he outran 6 other ss balts at the track when he was stock with just stage 2. The only one he lost to had a stage 3 pcm and spray and he ran a 13.7. You also shouldn't come in and just say stuff about a tuner you don't know. I also have seen his tune pick up .2-.3 tenths for other stg 2 people so his tune works. I have yet to see a single balt run faster than a 13 at bradenton. So your average of low 13's mid 12's is bullshit also dude. I also didn't post this since werewolfss is my friend. I just wanna see facts here on TGO which is why I read on here. Its not fully of garbage like css.net and people asking the same question over and over again because people can search here.

 

i'm not here to argue. i saw this guy was wondering if he could put the LSJ into his car. i came in here to say why it wasn't worth it. and saw some things that i wanted to put into truth. btw wolf. i AM running 24.5* of timing at WOT, with no knock. and guess who tuned me. area47, guess who's making power after 24* of timing??? me. guess who's pulling even more timing than that, him

and when did nitrous come in to play here? cause i don't have it. that 13.78 run was with like a 60* outside temp. with a 2.26 or something 60' time

soooo....what about all the drag cars running methanol as their main fueling???

oh really?
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showp...25&postcount=1

yup, thats whay i said. but i didn't say the crank is what was stoping it. differen't stroke, different compression ratio, and different head is whats stopping it.


oh and sorry, i'm not seeing ZZP's magical 500 horsepower dyno on here. just their 465 one, which was on the race gas.
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showp...86&postcount=1

WENT, with a 2.8 pulley and 60lb injectors. thats not what i'm currently doing
hey look what i found
oh hey look, a dyno sheet too.






but like i said, i'm not here to argue, just to clear things up. i joined this forum to look in to buying a thirg gen to build into a little bracket car. i saw this thread and thought i would drop in. then noticed a little misinformation and tried to clear things up, but i guess once you guys type something its final and your minds can't be changed

 

I'd love to see someone do that!

 

Well, well, well I almost don't want to reply cuz all I'm doing is feeding the troll but lets give you a small pimp slap since your trying to distort some things.

Congrats on running 24.5 degrees of timing. I'm still doing 25...lol and again......

NOT ON METH INJECTION! With only a little cobra heat exchanger hooked to my stock exchanger for cooling. No Ice box, no cryo2, no chiller killer, just a cobra he.

Now before you run off with another tangent let me shut you down now. Area47 is an excellent tuner there's no arguing that. While I and others have quarrels with his particular way of answering questions or giving advice with random and ofter stupid reply's there is no arguing he is a good tuner. Congrats on having a good tuner.

As for methanol in drag cars. Yes they run methanol, methanol is a powerful additive with a better burn rate it creates power....when put into the right setup and as they are running it 100% methanol only. But lets not distort this. How much methanol is going in your engine compared to fuel? Lets get a real equation here. 60lb fuel injectors when maxed push 60lbs of fuel an hour correct? So if we do the math the ratio of fuel in seconds is 45.36 grams per second. According to ur sig your pushing 10 grams per hour or is that suppose to be seconds? well hell lets say it's a second. so 10 over 45.36 means your pushing a ratio of 22% methanol to gasoline.

Oh wait no your not cuz the 45.36 is per cylinder you methanol is injected in the intake at 10 gps so we need to divide that by 4 cylinders since its divided as it hits the intake manifold so 2.5 gps per cylinder so again a total fuel ratio of 2.5 over 45.36 means your ratio of methanol to fuel is 5% methanol to 95% gasoline.

So lets add this together for all 4 cylinders in total and the fuel to methanol ratio is
2.5gps time 4 and 45.36 times 4 = 10 and 181.44 so the ration 10 over 181.44 come out to again 5% methanol to 95% gasoline.

So is 5 percent of total fuel consumption enough to make a difference?
Well therotecticaly you've increased your octane from 93 to 97 or so roughly.
But remember higher octane does not mean more power the higher the octane the higher the resitance to combustion and the slower the burn. The longer it takes to complete the burn combined with the rpm of the engine means that unburnt fuel is released increasing emissions and also means that there was fuel left that did not burn meaning it did not create power.

Cars are complicated things there is no one simple answer.

But moving on my final complaint your css link is to the fastest cobalts out there right now This is not the norm. This is the best of the best who have pushed the machine. This isn't everyone and there moma. Average Cobalt LSJ off nitrous and drag radial/slicks is in the 14's plain simple truth.

But moving on congrats on considering a third gen. They're great cars they have loads of potenitial they're not burdened with the usual Cobalt issues (FWD, Stupidly low first gear and so on). Hope you make a great third gen and enjoy it.

Now lets let this thread get back on track if you want to argue or give more to your side then pm me so we can leave these people in peace eh?


Edit: Also if that GPH is gallons per hour it converts out to 10 grams per second anyway.

 

so, is anyone selling a black 3rd gen??? hahaha

 

Your best bet is Autotrader and Craigslist in your local area.
Any particular third gen your looking for (RS, Z28, Iroc, T-top, Convertible, V6, V8, manual, automatic)?

If you look you can find a deal, I got my 90 Camaro RS 305 V8 for 700 bucks all it needed was a fuel pump and the body save for one small spot was rust free. So deals can be had. What are your plans for the car?

 

Not stock I knew you were full of it lol.


So now that we have established that you are a liar why dont you STFU and go join a Honda forum or something lol.

And if you doubt the effect of a catback on a boosted car you have no place in any automotive forum.

 

yeah, cause this 2.5" CRUSH BENT ebay fart can is gonna give me 26whp HAHAHAHAHAHA. guess what, the stock exhaust is...oh my god, 2.5"!!!!




even the whole header, downpipe, catback i have on there now gained me probably around 20 or so. but no, i'm not gonna go join a honda forum. i don't want, nor am i looking to buy one, like i am a camaro

 

i've looked on autotrader quite a bit and there really isn't much selection out right now. or ebay too. everything is too far away. as for the style, it really doesn't matter, the engine, trans, interior, axle, wheels, everything is going to be replaced. i just need a good straight clean body is all

 

Craigslist you'd be suprised what you'll find.
To bad your not down here in Florida. While we're not blessed by the hurricanes and heat we are fortunate that cars down here last much longer than most places. Again the 90 camaro I got last year only had one rust spot on the infamous door jam way. Looked at the under body pulled the carpet pulled headliner, checked engine bay theres no rust .
For being a 19 year old car thats been sitting outside for 7 years that ain't bad.

Good luck with your project what are you putting into the Maro?

So whats the plan drivetrain wise?

 

Non stock is non stock, you cant use these numbers to support your assertion that stock SS's make 40-60 more WHP than they should.

It's just not valid period.

 

when did i say they dyno'd 40-60whp more??? i didn't i said i did 231/205, with a muffler. a muffler that in your eyes gave me an extra 26horse power TO THE WHEELS.

 

i'm just gonna take it to my friend rodney's shop and basically say "here ya go, build it"

i'ld like to build a nice foot brake bracket car. no/e more than likely. depending on the budget i may build a "slower" superpro car, like a 9.50-9.60ish. would like to not go any lower than 9.50 though cause we have a lot of index races here as well as brackets.

as for the engine and drivetrain, whatever he sees fit to get me down the track. i'ld really like to stay away from power adders though, just more stuff to worry about and maintain. if i did have to choose one though, it would more than likely be a procharger or a smaller roots blower. everything else is really up to him

 

My thoughts exactly! Also-
True: 4 Bangers with high revs and new tech can produce some pretty high output. However, damn.... what a shame that would be in some ways.... WHATEVER you do... please please don't put a rice burner coffee can, craptastic exhaust on it!

Hey... Ever consider the horizontally opposed 4cyl "boxer" motor like the WRX's and STI's have? They have impressive power, fuel efficiency, GREAT to turbo, and to satisfy the previous discussion about sound..... well... they sure sound a lot better than a civic. For a 4 banger, they actually sound pretty damn cool actually

here are a couple links just in case you were curious about the sound of those motors. When reving they sounds a bit like a V8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47NJBTT-1m4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX89w...eature=related

 

You are confusing WHP with CHP. The SS is rated at 205 at the crank, if a car is actualy making 230 +- at the wheels then the actual gain is closer to 40-60 HP.

An honest 205 at the crank translates to 170-180 WHP.

 

please tell me you don't actually think the sc cobalt is the only underrated car out there.

 

this is my first post, but i had to jump on board this one.
i have built and tuned many 4,6, and 8 cyl. cars. ok were to start with this one. when i comes to making a 4 or 6 cyl. make power you have to get a decent amount of boost. i built a old 2.2 liter in a 85' cavalier hatch back with a turbo and it was about as fast as a stock 305 camaro or firebird. i then graduated to a 3.8sc in my 98' gtp coupe. after owning that for years and dupping about 8k in the motor in ran a best of 7.7 in the 1/8th which i beleive is a around hight 11's to low 12's(someone chime in if i am wrong with my calculations). after blowing the engine for the third time it was time to move on. so i picked up 90' firechicken with a 5.0 and stick for 1600 bucks. decent find. but my thing is say you take your 350 you have know, drop some forged internals from say summit, add a nice gt35 bb turbo, some nice heads, etc... you should be in the 500-600hp range pretty easily.
you will probably spend what it would take to convert your car to except the eco tech(which is a nice engine)on what it would take to make the power in your 350. so just my two cents, when it comes to making power you can make just about any engine fit in your car and make power, but the cost to power ratio has to go to the 350 as the parts are readily availabe and much cheaper. sorry about the long post guys

 

Ofcourse not, My Mazda is only rated at 160 crank and it was bone stock (no catback even !) when it pulled 161.5. And this was at a meet with half a dozen other MX6's and probes that ranged from stock to most available boltons to a couple 200 CHP Japanese motor swaps.

The conclusion was that my car had a freak motor since id dynoed right smack between the two 200 CHP motors.

But your numbers simply dont ad up.

With 230 at the wheels a stock 2900lb cobalt should be dipping into the 12's absolutely stock.

The times you are reporting are closer to what a much hesvier car will run with the same output.

A friend of mine in PR has broken into the 11's in a FWD 2750lb hatch with just 224 WHP so why are you so slow?

 

The Answer is Traction.
And Gearing.

The stock tires are little 215/45/18's.
And the transmission is a Saab transmission that was built for towing trucks.
So first gear is ridiculously short. Anything above 2k to 2.3k and 50% throttle and the tires will spin (actually they wheel hop in stock form ) so getting them out the whole with out slicks and a tune to control boost during launch means you have to have some good driving skills keeping it right on the verge of spinning but not quite there. Most Cobalt owners can't seem to do that or do it wrong and fry there clutches and bitch about how the stock clutch is "no good". Oh well I have 30K miles on my car with my own tune, and roughly 60 passes at the track plus I drive sprinted and my stock clutch is as good as the day I got it.

So ExSoccer your going to have another guy build the car and then you just race it?
Aww come on the real fun is in building it yourself then taking it down the track.

 

yup. stock tires suck. thats why i got me some 235/40's

not me, see pictures of my modified TTR upper mount and my transmission mounts above.

2.19 60' was the best i got on street tires.

troof. and me and you are doin something right then, i'm just about at 47k on the stock clutch and about the same on passes and its just now starting to slip at the top of first and its just gone going into second. but this is only at the track, street driving you can't tell anything. but im gonna be getting a spec 3+ or 4 clutch and a nice hoosier slick setup soon after i move and get a job. oh and yes, he'll be doing most of the work, but that doesn't mean i won't be helping him build it.

well like i said, i'm not the only one this has happened to. theres a few people that have dynoe'd higher than i did when i was stock. but i still have only seen maybe a handful dyno lower than 210, and maybe one below 200

 

I dunno how i missed this convo... Anyways its nice to see a couple fellow Cobalt guys on the forum

 

1st gear Cobalt SS = 3.38. 1st gear for MX6 = 3.30.

These are not unusual ratios for FWD cars with smallish motors.

The final drive ratios more than make up for the difference though, I do understand the issue you have with the low 1st gear ratio. I have the same issue even being N/A. I plan on turboing the car eventualy and 400-450 WHP is very easy with these cars so I anticipate major traction issues even at just the 5 PSI I'm planning for to start with.

I'll be rebuilding the trans with both a higher 1st and a higher final to load the engine for better spool and to reduce torque to the wheels a bit.