Why don't people swap in 327 sb, my dad is a mechnic and he said that those 327 were screamers and didn't know why they stopped making them. I really want to put in a 327 in because I heard that they are faster than 350's because they have a shorter stroke than the 350. Also the 327 has the 4" bore so any cylnder head will fit on top. I know that their only two bolt, but chevy said that two bolt engines are good to 500-600hp. Is it worth it to put in a 327. Thanks

 

I think changing to the 327 is a great idea. I have an 89' RS with the 305 TBI and was planning on making the same change. Keep me posted on your project.

 

No disrespect to the 327, but with equal mods, the 350 will develop more power than a 327 by fact of the extra cubic inches.

Chevy went with the 350 over the 327 for the extra torque (and extra power potential). This is very same reason so many people stroke their 350 to a 383 (with a .030" overbore); more power and torque.

High rpms are great for the track, but on the street, you want torque also.

 

Glenn is right about the 327s torque curve; it doesn't match modern transmissions, gearing, fuel mileage, or emissions design criteria. Plus, you don't get more power out of an engine by making it smaller. That's nonsense.

The TPI is not set up for high RPMs. The whole system is carefully designed and "tuned" to help an otherwise anemic 305 have some degree of torque. Even in a 305 the TPI falls flat on its face at 4600 RPM or so. There's no way to take advantage of the specific strong points of a 327 with a TPI. Total mismatch.

When the 350 started becoming widely available, we all stopped building 327s, because all of a sudden we could go faster with a 350 than we used to be able to with a 327. That hasn't changed.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

If torque is what you are worried about than why is the ford 302 so popular it only has a 3" stroke, and the 302 will beat most 350's. Also 302's are in trucks and made to have torque. I heard that the 327 does have alot of torque it just was made to rev, any cam would fix that. I heard that 327 in late 80's camaro's are much easier to get into the 13's rather then the 350.

 

In my '57, I've had the original 283 (3-7/8" bore, 3" stroke), 327 (4" bore, 3.25" stroke), 302+ (4.060" bore, 3" stroke), 355 (4.030" bore, 3.48" stroke). Currently engine in sig.

With the 396, I just recently beat the times the 302 turned (1/8 mile only - it was just getting going). My favorite engine overall was the 327 (until the 396, that is - I kinda like my baby Rat). If I still had the 327, it'd be going into the Camaro, no doubt about it.

As for being "screamers", it really depended upon the "package" - cam, heads, induction & exhaust, and to some extent compression. I drove farm trucks w/327's - didn't "scream", but sure pulled! On the other side, fuelie Vette 327's are legend.

If you have a 327, put good heads, cam, intake & exhaust on it, designed to work together, and you won't be disappointed (you're sticking w/TBI, not going to TPI, right?). If you have a 350, it probably doesn't make sense to go looking for a 327.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, WP 305 heads ported & polished, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

Oh, I can have fun with that statement, but I'll be nice.

Ok, so lets look at the 302, 327 and 350. Here are the bore stroke combos for all three, Ford's 302 is the same:

302 = 4.00" bore x 3.00" stroke
327 = 4.00" bore x 3.25" stroke
350 = 4.00" bore x 3.48" stroke
(Ford 351 = 4.00" bore x 3.50" stroke)

You agree here right? Now, the only difference is the stroke correct? That is what enables the 350 to produce more torque than the 327, let alone the 302. Look at it this way, when you are loosening bolts on your tires (lug nuts), do you use a ratchet with a 3" handle? What about a 4" handle? Well, I use my torque wrench (there is a reason it's called such ), which has an 18" handle on it. This allows me to "break loose" the lugs nuts with out using too much strength. The 3" handle would require a seriously buff dude to loosen, I know I wouldn't be able to. You see why a 3.48" stroke produces more torque now? It's all about leverage. The ford 302s aren't good off the line, I don't care what anyone says, compared to a similar 350 (or 351 in ford terms ). The 350 will launch hard off the line, leaving short strokes to catch up almost and sometimes too late. And as for them being in trucks, my father has a 302 in his F-150 extra cab. You want to talk about a dog . My '84 with a stock 305 (although lighter) could rip it apart at half throttle with the truck being floored. Also a friend with an AOD 5.0L mustang raced me once, I killed him until about the end of second. That is where the 302s (short strokes) shine, on the top end. Ok, I've said enough.

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George P. Lara
1984 "L69 A4"
Soon to be 357, T5, 3.70
1994 LT1 M6
SCCA, SCFB, SC3GFB

 

RawPower, a 302 Ford will not beat most Chevy 350s. That is completely false. A 302 Ford will hang in there with a TPI 350, but is clobbered by an LT-1 350. Reason? Induction system, not displacement.

As for a 327 being easier to get into the 13s than a 350? Again, induciton system. Most guys that swap a 327 into a 3rd Gen generally have a carb.

The stock TPI system was designed for a 305 and then added onto a 350 as an afterthought. However, to conclude that just because a carbed 327 is easier or faster than a TPI 350 means the 327 is faster (it is not, or else a 383 would be the worst mod in the world) is because you are comparing apples to oranges.

It is like cutting the legs off a frog and then telling it to jump. And when it can't jump, concluding that cutting the legs off makes the frog go deaf.

FYI, I have a friend with a 300 HP 327 in a 64 Vette and my basically stock L98 beats him and I have yet to be beaten by a basically stock 302 Ford.

 

I have a 327 in my car now under a STOCK TBI unit. And it hauls major *** . I also have my better set-up, using aftermarket intake and carb that I run during the summer. And this combo REALLY makes the car fly. Fact is, the 327 has a lot of HP and a lot of torque too. It's a rare set-up for a 3rd gen. Camaro and you won't be dissappointed. GO FOR IT!!!!!

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Alex (AKA chevyboy) '91 RS 327, trans-go shift kit>> manual valve body, cat-delete, MSD (ignition, coil, 2-step, timing retard/ advance),Flowmaster, complete Edelbrock suspension including shocks, struts and lowering springs. CRAGAR drag wheels. Lowered 2.25" in front and 1.5" in rear....Best E/T 12.84 @109 mph...(got spray?)plus more!!

 

I understand everything about stoke, the more stroke you have the more torque, and the less amount of stroke the more horsepower. If you take a 327 and a 350 in the same car and both have the same horsepower in the 1/4 mile I bet that the 327 will win. But your right about one thing 350's are much easier to find, so I will proably go with the 350 HO crate from gm. Are the accessiory holes different on the 327 so you can't put on the 80's hardware or do you just have to buy different heads. Also one more thing the chevy 383(4.030" X 3.75") is just one big 305 (3.74 X 3.48), small bore and long stroke if you add it all up it is just a bigger 305 does anyone want that. I bet the 383 does have a lot of torque though.

 

You're still missing it a bit. Horsepower is a "formula" based on torque & RPM. A shorter stroke engine will TEND to rev higher, but that does not mean it will have more POWER. A longer stroke engine putting out more torque at a given RPM will be putting out more power at that RPM than a shorter stroke engine with less torque. For example, a 327 with the same compression, heads, cam, induction, and exhaust will "tend" to have less power than a 350 will all those things, assuming the package is designed to work together.

A 383 does not compare to a 305 in any way. It compares to a 327 and 350 because they share the same bore (well, .030" over). The 305 has the same stroke as the 350, but is a much smaller bore. The larger bore of the 383 (and 327 & 350, for that matter) allows the valves to breathe better, so it will put out proportionally more power.

A magazine recently tried to show the differences between stroke & bore by building similar 383 and 377's. Since these have different bore & stroke, it's not quite the same as the example you are using. But, the 383 made more torque and therefore more power until RPM's were over 6500. Then, the 377 started to take over, but in a drag race, "all other things being equal", the 383 would most likely win.

The accessory hole issue is only for '67-older engines, and involves the heads only. If you put later model heads on a 327 block, there would be no accessory issues except for the location of the dipstick (which would also be an issue for older 350's).

By the way, I love 327's. Wish I had one. But, in your case, since you do not appear to currently have a 327, you would be better off getting a 350. The HO has Vortec heads, be sure to plan your induction accordingly (no TPI, for instance).

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, WP 305 heads ported & polished, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

Five7kid,

You said there is nothing the same about the 383 and 305, but I said that the 383 is just a big 305. This is my theory that I picked up from someone on here awile ago. Here it goes:

305 ci.= 3.74"bore/3.48"stroke=1.07
383 ci.= 4.030"bore/3.75"stroke=1.07
The two engines have the same distibution between bore and stroke.
This is how I think of a 383, because it has a small bore and a long stroke and that is why it makes torque just like the 305, but the 305 is a smaller engine so that is why people cut down the little 305. If the 305 had more performance heads for them not as many people would cut down the 305. I could be wrong about all of this, but just look at the facts and think about it and if disagree with me then tell me. No one is always right because someone could show the other side of the story. Thank YOU

 

I'm I right in my thinking or not I want to know. Thanks

 

Sorry, haven't been to this thread for a few days...

The bore/stroke ratio may be the same, but that's not the real issue. The castings are different and don't share parts like the 327/350 do, or the 350/383 do (that's the side I was coming from). The real issue with the 305 is the lack of space for getting bigger valves in the bore, and flow around them because of the close proximity to the bore wall. World makes 305-specific heads, but nobody else has bothered because of this factor and their smaller and unique chamber size (although Vette aluminum heads have the same size chamber).

If you check my sig, I'm building a 305 with those WP heads, so certainly I don't flame those building them. To say, though, that 305's and 383's should make proportionate power to displacement because they share the same bore/stroke ratio isn't realistic.


On another note, there's another '57 owner out here who runs a Nomad w/383. He waxes me by over 1.5 seconds in the quarter. There are a lot of factors, but if I had done everything to my 396 and the rest of my car that he has done to his, I'd probably be .5 second faster than he. Why? More room to get flow into and out of BBCs than SBCs. I've certainly spent a lot less money on mine than he has! And, we tied for points in our class last season...

 

Five7kid,

Thanks for your input I understand what you are saying, but why are you building a 305 if you think that they are junk. My 305 is a fast one I can beat my dad's Avanti that has 270 hp. When my dad drives my car he can get rubber in third gear I can only get rubber in second gear. He said that my 305 is one of the fastest 305's he has ever seen.


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