I'm getting the GM 350 HO Crate engine thanks to everyone opening my eyes to swap out the 305. My question is, for the 2700 bucks that I would spend(2100 engine, 200 intake, 300 carb, 100 harmonic damper)I would have something like 330 HP. This is huge it sounds like, compared to the rock solid 190 that I'm putting out now. (he he)So would I break my transmission apart with this extra power?
Also, what the hell is a crate engine anyway(I'm stupid) besides an engine that comes to you in a crate?
Also, with this 330 HP, would I have to worry about any mustangs beating my *** on the road? How about a Stealth Turbo, V-Tec Integra?
Just curious, I've never been in a car with 330 hp, so I dont quite know what to expect. I have been in the v-tec however, and it was damn quick, so if I could dust his *** , that'd be great.
Thanks all
Dave
92 Camaro RS
Heart transplant coming soon(hopefully by may... need to knock off a few banks first...)

 

Uh you would beat a Friggin Type R integra light to light. Crate means it all comes in one package if think. With the proper Exhaust, induction, gears and traction you could hit mid 13's at 101+mph.

 

you will be happy with it...trust me. you will be able to take a LOT of people out there, but not everyone. most of the mustangs around here have a lot of wprk done to them, i dont know about your neck of the woods. they dont always play fair..so be prepared.

yeah the "crate" in crate engine is because it come in an actual crate..here is a pivture of my engine while it is still in teh crate. i already ripped off the top part of it in this picture, but you can see the bottom..



-Brian

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1991 Camaro RS - Ultra Blue Metallic, T-Tops
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GM 350 HO Crate Engine - Vortec Heads, Edelbrock Intake, Holley 670 CFM TB, Edelbrock Water Pump, March Pulleys, MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, 8.5mm Super Conductors, Cap and Rotor, Rapidfires, Hypertech Fan Switch & Chip, SLP 1 3/4" Stainless Headers, 3" Cat Back, Flowmaster 40 Series
700R4 - 2,400 Stall Converter, Vette Servo, Shift Kit, B&M Super Cooler
GM 10 Bolt -coming soon Auburn Pro Series Differential, Richmond 3.73s
Brian's 1991 RS Central NY F-Body Association
Join the Third Generation F-Body TBI Web Ring
z28boy@twcny.rr.com IM name: Z28 Boy

 

That's what i like to hear. 2000 Mustang GT's are a big hit around here(Colorado= mustang country? Why? I don't know)So I know that I would be racing them, but it's usually old men who are too stupid to buy a Camaro, and too broke to mod it out, so I know that they would all be stock, I'm not too worried about them, and I would like to have an engine that has no miles on it at all so I can drive it virtually forever.
Thanks all
Dave
92 Camaro RS

 

Highlands Ranch = Air Care Colorado every two years. With a '92, you're dead as soon as they open the hood (which they will do). Do you have some way to register this thing outside of the emissions test required area, or do you plan on putting your 305 back in every two years?

There's more to speed than the horsepower rating: Power to weight ratio, shape of the power curve, gearing, traction, etc. You might keep up with a Stealth Turbo from the light, but don't plan on it out on C-470 (don't try it, for that matter - I drive on that route, and don't want to get plowed by either of you). I happen to know a certain Stealth Turbo that drives from Conifer to the Tech Center - you won't keep up with him with the 330. I also know of an '89 5.0 that drives the other way from Broadway and C-470 - He'd give you fits with fewer horses.

Go ahead with carrying out your dreams (except for the banks part - I have a savings account, too), but be realistic about it. There will always be somebody out there who can shut you down.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, WP 305 heads ported & polished, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

Exactly what is "old" to you?

 

By old, I mean 50-60+. I'm 17, and everyone is old to me. I know that Colorado sucks with emissions, but my 305 did just fine, and I can buy the parts to keep it emissions legal. It's not illegal to get an engine swapped out, cuz there is worse things out here(like my friends 69 with a 454), so I'm not too worried about them slamming my car.

 

'69 w/454 is no-sweat. A '92 w/carb is no-go.

(I'm closer to 50 than you are to 21. Watch what you say about us old farts... )

 

Hey, I'm not trying to disrespect you. I have nothing but love for everyone on this site. Ok, now for the engine. Don't I have a carb now? I'm not really changing anything, I'm keeping the TBI set-up instead of a carb. Can I get the engine emissions-legal?

 

Pullmeover, there will be two of us in the area cause I am doing the same thing in my 91. As for emissions, you can do it as long as you keep the emissions stuff especially the EGR. Call the Air polution control division at 303-744-2442 option #3. Ask for mike and tell him what you are going to do.
(no, they don't trace calls or anything). I talked to them cause I was concerned about the EGR which has to be run off the exhaust manifold instead of the intake which is noticable during a visual inspection. but they probably won't pick it up . If they do you can go to the above number and have them do a special test
and as long as it passes standards, they will give you a special waiver which goes in the computer. You gotta run the EGR and most of the other stuff to pass, so make sure you get the EGR intake.
The 330 HP engine is rated at the crank as I understand it and is tested using a 750 holley and full length headers. I doubt we will be at that level but it will be a hell of a lot better than the 305.
I know about the bros on 285/c-470 driving to the tech center cause I drive it every day. There are a lot of "old men" and kids that drive pieces of **** but there are some of both that drive some wild stuff and we ain't in the same league. But so what.
We will at least not be embarrassed anymore
my the multitude of daily drivers that can can outrun a 170 HP TBI camaro.
There are a ton of rice rockets that can outrun my harley, but the ***** always wants to ride with me even though I am an old guy.
Go figure.......bob


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91 camaro RS L03 convert,
t-5, ultimate TBI mods,TBI spacer,SLP 1 5/8 headers,
3"cat back, 3.42 torsen posi,alston SFC's,Global West LCA relocation brackets, edelbrock STB

 

another thought for the "pullmeover kid".
My neighbor got a 300hp? (man that sounds like a lot) audi A6 with all wheel drive.Its a 4 door and looks like an old man car which it is. But, no matter how much horsepower I get, I don't think I can safely out run him in the canyon to conifer.
Plus he paid $40,000 for it and we won't have 1/2 of that in our cars.Not a lecture, just some thoughts. Good luck on your project.......bob

 

rsilver, the 330hp 350ho was dynoed with long headers YES, but with a 650cfm holley carb. Not 750cfm like you said. I'll have to show everybody what a 350ho can do with TBI. Then I think everybody will shut up with the "TBI sucks." It's a lesson that needs to be taught to the majority of thirdgen owners.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

Jprevost, thanks for clearing that up on the carbs. So far I have heard nothing but good reports on the vortec 350 with TBI, I just don't know that it will make 330 hp when installed in a street car. Regardless,I would sure like to hear about your 350HO...........bob

 

Shoot,
I don't really care if I'm only making 300 hp, thats still huge power compared to my 180 now. and for $2700? Damn, I'll have that in a few weeks. The torque is still huge, and without power adders, you can't ask for much more than that. I saw a 2000 Civic Si that's getting a supercharger, and his car is only going to put out 275 hp AFTER the charge, I'll be 50 ahead on just the stock engine! That's huge.
BTW, who makes an EGR intake, cuz I have to make sure this swap is emissions legal. I'm not planning on doing anything that's gonna get me busted, just a little bit of the step up from my L03

 

Red, I was just tugging on the cuffs about age

I got the carb bit from your original post, you included $300 for carb. With TBI and EGR, you should be fine.

I haven't heard of anyone that makes an external EGR passage TBI (or carb, for that matter) intake. You might have to fabricate such a fitting/passage. If you find someone who can weld aluminum, I would think you could tap the existing crossover passage and weld a fitting onto it. Then hook it to the header similar to the Vette TPI method.

 

red, Edelbrock makes a carb intake with an external EGR that is run off the exhaust manifold. I think Gm makes one too and you can use an adapter to fit your TBI on it. GMPP has just come out with a TBI manifold also that has EGR which is really expensive. There are some posts on this at the TBI board. I agree with you, I don't exactly know what HP it will make, but it sure is the best deal out there.
Five7, I am not sure if the above manifolds are external passage, but I know they will run an EGR just like the trucks do...bob

 

Yes, so after I buy the engine, what would I need to buy(brands also) to keep this emissions legal? I'd prefer not to make this too difficult, because this is my first engine swap. I want to keep the TBI system, so I'm not swapping to carb. Also, I was reading anewer post, and saw something about having to change out the computer with this engine swap.
How much would that cost? Do I have to do it? I'm all confused, I thought this would be easier than this, I guess not. Any help is appreciated.


Dave

 

No computer swap, never. You'll need a 350 knock sensor but that's about it. Also a stock chip will power it if you adjust everything. The only problem with the stock chip is the EGR. The chip is going to advance the timing more than if no EGR was present. Since the chip still thinks the engine has EGR it's going to advance it might cause ping which will be detected by the knock sensor and the chip will then turn timing down to like 20 to get rid of the ping. That makes for crappy gas milage and isn't the best for an engine. Z28 boy is running a hypertech chip with the TBI 350ho engine and he isn't having any problems so I don't think it's that big of a deal. A custom chip is a good idea though. I'm getting into EPROM burning and when I come out with my chip I'll make sure to tell all of you. If it's worth it or not and if so I'll have no problem burning chips for other TBI guys.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

Jprevost, If you use the EGR vortec manifold is the timing a problem with a stock chip or will it sense the EGR and leave things alone?( I assume your comments were related to NOT running an EGR) Also I have heard in addition to the knock sensor you should change the ESC? module.I saw this on an old thread but I can't find it.Is it necessary? Appreciate the help..............bob

 

Prevost
Thanks for the response, but the ping wont be a problem because I have to run with EGR. I don't have a choice if I want to drive my car at all in Colorado. It has to be completely emissions legal(egr on intake manifold)I'll be using the stock chip for a while cuz I wont have any money after this swap is done, I'm only saving up like $4000, and that had better cover all of it.
Thanks

 

http://www.paceparts.com/small_block..._manifolds.htm
You have two choices really, the TBI or the square bore. I know someplace is selling take-off parts for real cheap. I think they where taking intakes off of the 350ho deluxe which has the intake on it. I also have emissions testing and "need" egr but if the engine breaths clean and runs fine I know a garage that is going to overlook it. They will fail me if it doesn't pass all the tests though. So I'm keeping the normal cam for a while. Then swapping it out for the one that makes 380hp and 420ft-lbs.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...d=839&pid=8143
I don't know what this is but it might be a mistake. I don't think any vortec intake sells for that cheap. Call them up and ask, maybe it's for real and if so then you've got what you're looking for and for only $130.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

I have a simular swap keep me posted man good luck with all the crapstangs out there

 

Pullmeoverred, have you checked out the plumbing and mods necessary to run the egr?
Has anyone on this thread done it and run the egr ? I would sure like to know what is involved to make all the egr plumbing work from the intake to the exhaust header. The EGR hose does not look like it will clear the stock fuel lines where it somes out of the manifold although a 90 degree fitting or somethin else may work. Also how much welding is required to tap into the headers for the egr hose? Check out my other posts asking these specific questions. I thought I would ask any of you guys if you have done it with egr and what was involved. Its hard to tell from pictures how it will all work. \
i think there are a lot of guys who are considering this so I would sure appreciate the help..............bob

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91 camaro RS L03 convert,
t-5, ultimate TBI mods,TBI spacer,SLP 1 5/8 headers,
3"cat back, 3.42 torsen posi,alston SFC's,Global West LCA relocation brackets, edelbrock STB

 

That's my problem. I'm 17 and basically inexperienced in any of this emissions crap. I just wanted to swap out my engine to get me more power, and now all of this extra EGR and all these different parts I need is really starting to get confusing. I'm gonna end up having a shop install this engine, and maybe they will figure it all out for me for the 1000 bucks I pay them to do it. They can figure out how to keep my car emissions legal. However, I got my emissions done last year, so I don't have to do it for another year, so I could have it all figured out by then. I am so confused

 

pullmeover, don't blame you for being confused. I am an old guy and have been on this board for a year and I am confused about certian things too, so don't feel bad.
Just stay with it, read the archives and do searches for your questions. You will learn a lot.
Your idea is very good to put the engine in now and work on the EGR/emissions stuff over time before your next inspection. that will give you pleanty if time to get the bugs worked out. If I do the vortec, I figured I would do the same thing cause it can be done.
Who is doing the swap for you? do you recommend them? Thanks........bob

 

I ordered the engine today and all the parts are on there way. I'm going to be taking pictures of the swap and posting them on the internet daily between March 16-25th. If you check out my website, go to cars, my car, scroll down a little and you'll see the engine flash animation, click on it and it'll bring you to my parts list. It has the list of every part I need from intake bolts to gaskets and even a starter heat shield. The parts you NEED are marked with an *. My mom wanted me to get a shop to do the swap but I convinced her I could do it. I have one friend that rebuilt his 69 from scratch and hopefully NJSpeedster is going to help out a few days. Honestly it isn't that hard of a swap. Only a few small problems which I will post how to work around. I will also do more research into the external EGR. When I figure it out I'll make sure to post the parts and how.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

I ordered the engine today and all the parts are on there way. I'm going to be taking pictures of the swap and posting them on the internet daily between March 16-25th. If you check out my website, go to cars, my car, scroll down a little and you'll see the engine flash animation, click on it and it'll bring you to my parts list. It has the list of every part I need from intake bolts to gaskets and even a starter heat shield. The parts you NEED are marked with an *. My mom wanted me to get a shop to do the swap but I convinced her I could do it. I have one friend that rebuilt his 69 from scratch and hopefully NJSpeedster is going to help out a few days. Honestly it isn't that hard of a swap. Only a few small problems which I will post how to work around. I will also do more research into the external EGR. When I figure it out I'll make sure to post the parts and how.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

Honestly? I don't know who is going to do the swap for me. I was originally going to do it myself, but then I figured that I would shell out the extra 1000(thats what I think it is)to have a shop do it for me. I'm looking to have it done by August(gotta save some cash)
I have learned a lot about cars since I began looking on these boards, and thanks to everyone who has helped me. Unfortunately, I haven't learned enough to completely change my engine. My uncle is a mechanic down in Texas, and he has the sweetest 69 Camaro I have ever seen. It is immaculate, but hes on his 4th engine in it because he mods the things out so heavily. He recommend that I buy a bigger engine instead of heavily modifying my 305, which is what I'm gonna do. I figure the whole thing with installation will cost me a good $4000. Does that sound resonable to anyone?
Thanks all

 

I'm doing it all for ~$3000

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)
Dale Earnhart, you have done so much, you will be missed.

 

jprevost, right on man!!!! I will check your site in March. No one else has answered my questions about the EGR stuff, so hope you get some ideas.
Pullmeover, I think you can do it for$4,000
if you find the right shop for the labor.I have had quotes of $1,000 to $1500 but I think a good job can be had for less.........bob

 

Rsilver

Keep me posted on the EGR stuff, cuz I don't wanna get the engine completely done and have to rip it out in two years. I found a shop that will do it for me(maybe cheap cuz my buddy works there ) $4000 is no problem, and since you live around here rsilver, maybe we'll bump heads on the road sometime.
I rode in my friends 65 ***tang today for the first time since he rebuilt the engine, and he has like 260 hp in it, I can only imagine what my car is going to feel like. F**kin SWEET!
Thanks everyone for your help
Dave