I want to stroke my 305 in my '86 Firebird and am just wondering if anyone knows of any good stroker kits? I want them to be forged, mainly so if I decide to add nitrous it will be able to withstand it. Thanks for your help! (I apologize if this is not the board I should have posted this question in.)

 

Powerhouse (e-mail at powerplant@lightspeed.net) has a kit, with 58cc heads makes 10:1 compression (a mite high for nitrous, but do-able - larger chamber heads would bring it down). It requires .030" overbore, oil pan rail clearancing, and externally balanced flexplate and harmonic damper.

I know you didn't ask, but think hard about this before going through with it. For about the same money, you could get a roller 350 block, do the same machining and buy the same externally balanced parts, and have a 383 (the 383 kit costs less than the 334 kit). For even less money, you could rebuild the 350 and it would still be better than the 334.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, ZZ3 intake, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/'87 LB9 block, ZZ3 cam, ported World 305 heads, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat & 3" cat-back).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7 CR forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 600 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

The reason I plan on sticking with my 305 is because of my computer. I don't know how it would react with a different engine, 350 for example, and I just like smaller engines that put out big power. I want to smoke some new Z28's and then tell them I have a 305, just to make them feel like crap. Thanks though for the advice!

 

The 305's and 350's use the same computer. I understand you wanting to be able to smoke Z's with a 305, but a lot of Z's, depending on year, came with 305's themselves. I don't think anyone would be impressed with a 305 that smoked them. If I were smoked by a 305 car, the first thought I would have would be, "Geez, if he had spent all that money on a 350, he could've really smoked me!" Besides, after stroking your 305, you would no longer have a 305, you would have a 337 (?). I agree with five7 kid. Build a stout 350 for the same or less money. Ask yourself, "Is it really worth it to spend more money on less horsepower just to say I did it with a 305?" If you think it is, then by all means, build up the 305, but don't be surprised if you get toasted by someone (like me for example) who spent just as much on a 350.

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91RS convertible 355 TBI 65# inj. custom compcam grind .480/.480, Edelbrock TBI manifold, open element, hedman hedders, Y-pipe, cheap cherry bomb muffler, Hypertech cop car thermomaster, Accel coil, wires. 2.02/1.6 cast iron heads. Engine specially made by Pflugerville machine shop. Forged bottom end, balanced. Coming soon: Vacuum controlled FPR, better exhaust, Torque converter, DIY PROM, bigger TB.

 

I have to admire your idea. Doing something different. Good luck and have fun.

Phil


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89 IROC 5.0 TBI
Soon to be a 5.0 TPI, with a disk rear.

 

I didn't mean to sound like I was coming down on your idea. I just didn't want you to make the same 'mistake' I almost made. I also realize that I didn't really answer your question. Sorry about that. Powerhouse is the only company I've found that makes 305 stroker kits. You can run pretty high compression with the kits they have, which is bad for nitrous as 5-7 kid said. Also, you might want to try searching the archives. There's probably more info. The best advice I can give you is to do your research before you decide to drop a few grand. Hell, you might be independently wealthy and it may not matter, but the important thing is that you are happy with what you pick. After research, I realized that a stroked 305 is NOT what I would be happy with in the long term, and I am glad I went with the combo I have now, even though it isn't perfect. I searched these archives for hours every day for several weeks before I decided what to do, and even then there were some mistakes I made, but I was much better off than if I had just jumped into it without researching. That's what makes these boards so great. So good luck, and feel free to ask me any questions!


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91RS convertible 355 TBI 65# inj. custom compcam grind .480/.480, Edelbrock TBI manifold, open element, hedman hedders, Y-pipe, cheap cherry bomb muffler, Hypertech cop car thermomaster, Accel coil, wires. 2.02/1.6 cast iron heads. Engine specially made by Pflugerville machine shop. Forged bottom end, balanced. Coming soon: Vacuum controlled FPR, better exhaust, Torque converter, DIY PROM, bigger TB.

 

You cannot and will not build a 383 for the same price as a 334. The 305 stroker kit with good parts is around $700, a good 383 kit is around $650, but does not come with harmonic balancer and flywheel needed to use this combo. With a stroker 305 you can use your factory 305 tbi and ECM. With a 383 it is carb or not run worth a crap. Depending on machine work you could have a 334 for about $1000 if you build it yourself, a 383 is easily in the $2000 range. Also a 350 ECM and a 305 ECM are not the same, go to your local GM dealer and look it up. In fact the 305 is the only engine in late model Camaro's which didn't use the same ECM, the v6's used the same as the 350, but not the 305. Sorry for the long reply, but I wanted to set the record straight because everyone dogged me for wanting to build a 334. If I had done it my car would have a new engine now instead of in 2 months.

 

My car is carburated and I don't plan on making it fuel injected. Does that matter? My computer really doesn't do much for my engine, that I know of, so wouldn't it be OK to put a 350 in it's place? How is it cheaper to go 334, instead of a 383 as far as parts are concerned? Wouldn't I still have to buy the same parts for the 305 as I would the 350? Stroker kit, Edelbrock matched system, main caps, etc...? I appreciate you're concern and want to know the problems you've run into. Thanks for your time!

[This message has been edited by jharms (edited August 15, 2001).]

 

The harmonic damper and flexplate are the same for either a 334 or a 383. Powerhouse adds the same amount if you opt for those parts (with balancing). The rotating kit does, however, cost more (a good $100) for the 334 than the 383. Simple matter of the economics of volume.

If the computer doesn't like a 350, it isn't going to like the 334 any better. The only difference between the 305 & 350 computers is the chip - easy enough to handle. Check out the mag articles for the "Stroke in the Desert" pieces - LG4 carb setup handles a 383 just fine with a Jet chip.

I'll repeat - think hard before doing it. I was all ready to go for it in April; the machinist I talked to (reputable race & street engine builder - did the lower end of my 396) said he'd provide the block for less than the difference in the kit price. I decided not to do anything to the low end of the engine I'm putting together, since either choice costs more than doing nothing!

 

Yes, the parts are about the same, but if you don't already have a 350 you have to buy one. I wouldn't build a 383 without a 4 bolt block (just my preference with all of the money involved) so probably 400 dollars or so plus the machine work. You already have a 305 and if it was well taken care of like mine it will need minor machining. If you want to be different and save a little money I recommend a 334, if you don't care then build a 383. With the same modifications on either one you will never be farther than 100 horse apart. Take your extra 800-1000 dollars and invest in nitrous. One more thing for gas milage purposes the 334 kicks the 383's butt.

 

Actually, I have a friend that's going to give me, or at least REALLY cheap, a 4 bolt 350 block. Also, I was going to buy a 305 block, if I go that route, so I can continue to drive my car while I'm building a new engine. 100 horse is quite a bit of difference but the better gas mileage is something for me to think about. But with an Edelbrock performer RPM package, on either one I'm probably not looking at over 10 mpg anyway. (I think.) AHHH! Frustration is mounting. I want to be different, 334, but I want POWER(383)! I think I'll just go pray now and hope that God drops the engine he wants me to put in my car right off at my door when I get up in the morning...

 

I'm not sure what gears you are running, but with my 2.73 and a 4L60 I get 20-22 miles per gallon with my 383. With a 305 27-29 mpg and with a 334 around 23-24 mpg. It all depends on how it is geared though. With the 3.73 I am going to put in probably 18-19 with the 383. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

Well now my friend is saying that maybe I should just drop the whole stroked engine idea. (Because machine work will cost lots more $$$.) I really don't know how much machine work would have to be done to stroke an engine. Also, he is willing to sell me a good set of cast pistons for what he paid for them, $80. But should I go with hyperuetecic or would the cast pistons work fine? He's recomending just boring out a 350 block and then going with an Edelbrock of Holly performance system. (makes 400+ HP and torque. That's not bad.) Idea's/suggestions?

 

If you're buying another engine anyway, a 350 makes a lot more sense. 350 internals are less expensive than 305 parts to boot.

The stroking machine work isn't that much more than a standard rebuild rebore, especially if you do the rail clearancing yourself. It's the cost of the rotating parts and what else you need to get it going that starts ratcheting the price up.

If you go with the Holley or Edelbrock kit, you might want to do hypereutectic pistons. 400 hp is stretching the capabilities of cast pistons. You'll also be able to get something that matches the system well (like flat-tops instead of dished).

 

I guess I don't really know the difference between hypereutectic and cast for example. I know forged and cast, but not hypereutectic. Is it a diff. metal? So a flat top piston works better with Edelbrock and Holly systems? As far as the machining I probably wouldn't do the rail clearance myself, not really sure what that is... Thanks for your info.

 

"Hyper" means "above" or "over". Eutectic is the point at which the ratio of silicon to aluminum gives the lowest melting point and at which the alloy melts in a single phase (i.e., all liquid, not a liquid/solid slush). Cast alloy is typically at the eutectic point for ease of pouring; hypereutectic has more silicon in it for additional strength. The casting method is altered slightly to be able to get the material to flow and solidify properly.

Flat-tops may not be ideal for the Holley/Edelbrock systems. Talk to them to get their recommendations.

Oil pan rail clearancing is simply grinding off a little material on the inside of the block pan rail to allow the rods, which swing out farther in a 3.75" stroke motor vs. a standard 3.48" stroke, to pass by without hitting anything. It's not too hard to do, but there are a couple of things you need to watch out for while doing it. An experienced machine shop could do it for a little more than the other machine work they'd do for a rebuild. But, a more standard 350 is probably a better way to go.

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited August 18, 2001).]

 

Thanks for the advice. And you're right. The flat top pistons are what Holly "recomends" for there system. Anyone else have anything to add?

 

Flatlander racing makes a 305 stroker kit. I'm pretty sure they have forged stuff that you looking for. They have different combos for it to choose. I'm thinkin bout using them for my 305 unless I can afford one of those new RamJet 350's. Here's the address:

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/

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86' IROC-Z
5.0L TPI
Spohn panhard bar and LCA's

 

we(myslef and the guy i work for at night)are doing a 335 storker as we speak. we started assembling the short block this week. WE HAD MORE FREAKIN CLEARANCE PROBLEMS than i care to discuss. rod bolts hit everywhere. mainly on the block, but two on the camshaft. i realize its a machinced 400 crank. thats alot of stroke for that small of bore, oughta be a tourqy SOB. his engine is a TPI setup in a 92 Z. the guy wants it done so he can take it to bowling green the 15th to race it. i told him theres now way. is anyone else going to that race? i live about 2 hours away, me and a friend of mine is gonna run down there. anyways, back to the stroker. the kit is ok i guess, it has a one piece rear main seal(obviously)machined 400 crank, stock rods(oh, 4 out of the 8 pistons had loose rod bolts, powerhouse apparently cut the rods the wrong way, and the cap lost is hold on the bolts, it was explained to me how excatly it works, but at this time of night i dont remember)and keith black silvo light pistons(i am planning on running them in my 406 for my bird)
we had it balanced, but since a stock 305 is balanced differently than a 400, the guy that did the balancing had to weld weights on the back of the flywheel to get it right. hmmm what else.....so far, i think thats bout all the trouble we have had. below are the mods for the engine.
335 powerhouse stroker
world products tourqer S/R heads
SLP cam( i dont remember the specs)
Aftermarket runners, eldelbrok lower, AFPR, roller rockers, edelbrock A.I.R. headers, 3 inch cat back( i cant believe edelbrock sent a 2.5 cat with that system) custum burned chip, by who i dont remember. built 700R4 with small stall.
i think thats it. personally i think it will run out of steam about 5300 hundred cause of the stroke, i may be completely wrong, like i said, i cant remember the cam specs. sorry this was long, maybe this will help on the 335 stroker idea. any q's email me. lil j

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Wide Open Till You See God...Then Brake

 

It'll run out of steam because of the TPI and cam, not the stroke. I watch a 434 stroker run to 6 grand all night long. It's not the stroke that limits RPMs.

BUT, for a 305 TPI, the 334 isn't all that bad a concept - low RPM torque is what the TPI is all about. A 350 will still have more, that's all.

 

I just together a much more common 383 for my Malibu this past spring (350 with stroker crank). I didn't have as many problems as Jay did with his 334 but only becuase I bought the whole assembly pre-balanced. Other than that, yep, that's about par for the course shoving 3.75" worth of stroke into the bottom end of a small block Chevy (305 block or 350).

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND against building a stroker motor for your first or second engine project. You will end up broke and/or frustrated. Please do yourself a favor and build up a proper 350, OK? In fact you could BUY A COMPLETE NEW CHEVY 350 LONG BLOCK FOR ABOUT WHAT IT WOULD COST TO SIMPLY REBUILD YOUR 305 AND A LOT LESS THAT WHAT IT WOULD COST TO STROKE IT.

GM universal replacement 350 long block fully assembled with cam already installed: $1100. Rated 250 HP. It'll feel like you dropped a second engine under the hood compared to the tired little 305.

Other "build 'em yourself" kits are available with even more HP for about the same money for various mail order places.

[This message has been edited by Damon (edited August 24, 2001).]

 

Thank you for your advice Damon and me and a friend of mine have been talking and we've decided not to stroke anything. What we've been tossing around is buying an engine like the one you mentioned, long block 350 with 250 HP, and pull off the cam, intake, heads, etc. and put an Edelbrock or Holly system in it's place that's guarunteed to make 420 HP. That's ample HP and even if it doesn't make those numbers, it'll still make HIGH 300's which will enable me to be very competitive on the street. Any comments as far as this idea is concerned?

 

vortech heads+268xtreme cam in a 350=bout 400hp

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Wide Open Till You See God...Then Brake