454 Project
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454 Project
Today i got my 454 from an 89 suburban and i had fun check it out....the motor has oval intake ports i know 454 had two diff ports...whats the diff
Last edited by five7kid; 05-17-2010 at 01:58 PM. Reason: spelling corrections for clarity
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Re: 454 Project
'89 was most definitely peanut port only, unless it has a pre-'75 version swapped in. that driver side exhaust manifold might just fit. That a/c setup sure won't fit under the hood.
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Re: 454 Project
good luck man i did it with mine and it's well worth it!! make sure you get a hi perf set of square port cylinder heads and a square port manifold.... i did it on mine an it is breath taking....
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Re: 454 Project
you don't need 4-bolt mains or rectangle port heads for 6000 rpm. The heads you have are a reasonable cam away from 415 horses at 5000 rpm. If that doesn't suit you, World Merlins in the large oval version are the best bang for the buck.
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Re: 454 Project
i think im gonna go with what i have now and prob play with it more later....will the turbo 400 fit in there or no because i know the third gen has an ungodly small trans tunnel
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Re: 454 Project
It will have a set of peanut port heads on it - around 210cc or so. The large oval port heads, like my 781's are around 265cc intake ports. These are probably the best street/strip BBC factory head there is, they can support plenty of power with just bigger valves and some compression. The peanut port heads will support 400hp or so no problem though, and make a bit better low speed torque too. BBC has a pretty bulletproof bottom end, so no need for 4-bolt main caps untill you're getting into absurd power levels. The 2-bolt blocks are still very strong.
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Re: 454 Project
NOW EVERYONE IS SAYING PEANUT PORTS....I ASSUME THE LOOK LIKE AS NAMED RIGHT? I TOOK THE INTAKE OFF AND THEY LOOK ALOT MORE ROUND THAN PEANUT SHAPED ILL TAKE PICTURES OF THEM AND POST THEM SOMETIME TODAY OR TOMARROW...IM NEW TO BBC LIL DIF THAN A SBC TO ME
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Re: 454 Project
But no, peanut ports do not look like a peanut in any way. But after 35 years of ALL the Chevy guys calling them that, it's best to just go along with it.
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Re: 454 Project
lol i got it now thanks for clarifing.......now is there a big diff in a t400 from a suburban as compared to one from a car?
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Re: 454 Project
Can the air tube fittings be closed off?
I'm 'yardin' tomorrow, so I may be able to pick some up.
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Re: 454 Project
with it being A.I.R im not going to mess with it. itl never pass emission standard anyway. the patriot headers are real affordable and less of a headache im sure and from what i understand a BFH is needed for the pass side floor.
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Re: 454 Project
It will have a set of peanut port heads on it - around 210cc or so. The large oval port heads, like my 781's are around 265cc intake ports. These are probably the best street/strip BBC factory head there is, they can support plenty of power with just bigger valves and some compression. The peanut port heads will support 400hp or so no problem though, and make a bit better low speed torque too. BBC has a pretty bulletproof bottom end, so no need for 4-bolt main caps untill you're getting into absurd power levels. The 2-bolt blocks are still very strong.
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Re: 454 Project
Looks like it will clear the firewall! Forgive my ignorance--if both sides are the same, is it just a matter of pipe work? I mean IF they clear the firewall, no BFH persuasion to the floors or framerail, then just a few $ for some custom pipe bends?
Can the air tube fittings be closed off?
I'm 'yardin' tomorrow, so I may be able to pick some up.
Can the air tube fittings be closed off?
I'm 'yardin' tomorrow, so I may be able to pick some up.
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Re: 454 Project
Oh yes, most definitely yes, on both counts. The legendary John Lingenfelter himself ported a set, put them on a built rat, and got 600 horses from them. that was with a big solid roller cam, and bigger valves, but still, it shows that the potential is there. If you want to go that route, start by buying a set of 2.19/1.88" valves, and the intake gaskets for the early large-oval intake ports, NOT the big rectangle ports.
Have an automotive machine shop cut the heads to match the valves, then do a 75 degree bowl hog to follow up. Then you're ready to start porting.
This is one of the most challenging porting jobs going, and it has a few easy tricks that really help. If you go this route, I'll give you more details.
Have an automotive machine shop cut the heads to match the valves, then do a 75 degree bowl hog to follow up. Then you're ready to start porting.
This is one of the most challenging porting jobs going, and it has a few easy tricks that really help. If you go this route, I'll give you more details.
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Re: 454 Project
But if the budget allows, now is the time to do headers. If so, I definitely will offer to buy at least the driver side manifold, haven't seen the other yet.
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Re: 454 Project
Better to just test fit with the manifolds, including pounding the floor, because the Patriots require pounding anyway. If the manifolds clear, just plug the AIR holes for now, headers can wait until you get done replacing everything else. Like the soon-to-be-broken rear axle. :-)
But if the budget allows, now is the time to do headers. If so, I definitely will offer to buy at least the driver side manifold, haven't seen the other yet.
But if the budget allows, now is the time to do headers. If so, I definitely will offer to buy at least the driver side manifold, haven't seen the other yet.
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Re: 454 Project
The biggest problem with porting the peanut ports is the risk of breaking
through the port wall into the pushrod area.
Experienced porters can hear when the wall has already gotten too thin,
but too late is still too late.
One trick is before starting any porting, measure the port opening.
Cut a piece of white cardboard to match, then crazy glue it to the tip of a pencil.
Do a bunch of these.Split in to 2 groups. One for the long ports, one for the short
ports. Do the following to each set. groups, aLabel the first one 0.5, the second 1.0,
and so on.
Trim the first one until it exactly matches the ports 1/2" into the port. Trim
the second one to match the ports 1" deep, and so on.
Then get blue and red sharpie markers. Draw a line down the center of one intake
port floor, then use it to make a corresponding dot on each template.
Then cross-mark the port floor at each depth you can.
Then use the templates to mark the other 7 intake port floors.
Then, when you're porting, with the decks down, don't grind on the port floors.
Focus on doing the other 3 sides about equally.
grind, then try your template to check your progress. Use the red lines and
dots so the template stays centered left to right.
It's fairly safe to remove up to 1/8" around the 3 unmarked sides of the templates.
this technique will help you do consistent work.
It's better to leave too much iron than to hit water. If you hit the pushrod area,
JB Weld is your new best friend. All you're really risking there is a vacuum leak.
There are many more good porting tips in my thread on porting DIEs
(Dart Iron Eagles, though that thread is moving in to other heads)
through the port wall into the pushrod area.
Experienced porters can hear when the wall has already gotten too thin,
but too late is still too late.
One trick is before starting any porting, measure the port opening.
Cut a piece of white cardboard to match, then crazy glue it to the tip of a pencil.
Do a bunch of these.Split in to 2 groups. One for the long ports, one for the short
ports. Do the following to each set. groups, aLabel the first one 0.5, the second 1.0,
and so on.
Trim the first one until it exactly matches the ports 1/2" into the port. Trim
the second one to match the ports 1" deep, and so on.
Then get blue and red sharpie markers. Draw a line down the center of one intake
port floor, then use it to make a corresponding dot on each template.
Then cross-mark the port floor at each depth you can.
Then use the templates to mark the other 7 intake port floors.
Then, when you're porting, with the decks down, don't grind on the port floors.
Focus on doing the other 3 sides about equally.
grind, then try your template to check your progress. Use the red lines and
dots so the template stays centered left to right.
It's fairly safe to remove up to 1/8" around the 3 unmarked sides of the templates.
this technique will help you do consistent work.
It's better to leave too much iron than to hit water. If you hit the pushrod area,
JB Weld is your new best friend. All you're really risking there is a vacuum leak.
There are many more good porting tips in my thread on porting DIEs
(Dart Iron Eagles, though that thread is moving in to other heads)
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Re: 454 Project
The valves are a fairly large expense, you need stainless, swirl-polished valves with undercut stems, Have the shop put a small 30 degree back cut on each and every one of them before cutting the seats to match.
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Re: 454 Project
awsome i will print that out....im takin the heads in tomarrow for machineing and ill see on geting into porting them....thanks alot for the tips i will keep this thread updated as i progress
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Re: 454 Project
IMO, you'd be better off to spend your money on a set of used 049 or 781 (they are basically the same) heads and rebuilding those, than throwing money at the peanut port heads to have them ported - the peanut ports will do better with porting, but not like the 781 or 049 'large oval' heads will. 781 heads are not rare by any means, so you can pick up a serviceable set for fairly cheap still - MUCH better way to spend ones money IMO. A set of stock 781s will do what a set of ported peanut-ports will, and if you port the 781s, the peanut port heads will never catch up to them, no matter what you do to them.
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Re: 454 Project
However, in my area, finding rebuildable large ovals run $500 per bare pair, while peanuts are under 40% of that. By the time you get hardened seats, new guides, resurfacing, and the valve job, you're the same money for the large ovals as just buying new bare world Merlins.
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Re: 454 Project
im not going to port them just yet but they are geting machined and microfluxed today...when its in the budget i will look into my options for heads....at 150 a head for machineing and valve seats....ect im ahead for now....no what i mean.....and attilla i will hopefully have the pics of the manifolds today if time alows me too
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Re: 454 Project
im not going to port them just yet but they are geting machined and microfluxed today...when its in the budget i will look into my options for heads....at 150 a head for machineing and valve seats....ect im ahead for now....no what i mean.....and attilla i will hopefully have the pics of the manifolds today if time alows me too
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Re: 454 Project
I think we should clarify this. Lingenfelter-ported peanuts beat unported large ovals.
However, in my area, finding rebuildable large ovals run $500 per bare pair, while peanuts are under 40% of that. By the time you get hardened seats, new guides, resurfacing, and the valve job, you're the same money for the large ovals as just buying new bare world Merlins.
However, in my area, finding rebuildable large ovals run $500 per bare pair, while peanuts are under 40% of that. By the time you get hardened seats, new guides, resurfacing, and the valve job, you're the same money for the large ovals as just buying new bare world Merlins.
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Re: 454 Project
Now, Merlins come already fitted with hard exhaust seats and new guides, and a valve job, so no, your argument doesn't stand. Yes, both still need springs and so on, but neither of us actually typed that. You just inferred it.
Anyway, by the time GM got the exhaust seats right, the peanuts had replaced the large ovals.
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Re: 454 Project
a few years ago Hot Rod did a junkyard jewel 454. It had peanut ports and 7.75:1 compression. With a Performer type intake from World, and a 228/238 cam, it made 414 hp at 4900 rpm, if I remember correctly. They swapped to the Merlins, no other changes, and it jumped to 449 hp at 5400 rpm, again, if I remember correctly. I have that article in my files, but haven't seen it in nearly 2 months.
35 HP isn't much for $1,000 but the extra rpm range means they're gonna be worth even more HP with a bigger cam.
They are better out-of-the-box than entry-level-ported production large ovals from GM. They're certainly not cracked, and they have more iron in them for more extensive porting.
Still, that 228 cam is a street/strip grind for an 8:1 454, and with that cam, 35 hp doesn't justify $1000.
If you do pull your heads, and you don't find domed pistons, you can help your compression a bit with these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-1131G/
35 HP isn't much for $1,000 but the extra rpm range means they're gonna be worth even more HP with a bigger cam.
They are better out-of-the-box than entry-level-ported production large ovals from GM. They're certainly not cracked, and they have more iron in them for more extensive porting.
Still, that 228 cam is a street/strip grind for an 8:1 454, and with that cam, 35 hp doesn't justify $1000.
If you do pull your heads, and you don't find domed pistons, you can help your compression a bit with these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-1131G/
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Re: 454 Project
is it possible to do 8.8 rear end from a mustang to bolt in directly and will it hold up to a 454?
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Re: 454 Project
well im crafty for the most part is there an upgrade i can do to my a$$ end to hold up a 454?
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