SORRY IF THIS IS LONG JUST TRYING TO GIVE ALL INFORMATION I HAVE ABOUT MY PROBLEM

ok so i did a 2.8-350 swap on an 84 firebird i went from carburated to carburated. I finally got my car running yesterday from having problems after problems,it was running and idling fine( i do not have the torque converter hooked up just the tranny bolted the the engine but nothing else) but everything checked out no leaks coolant fine and oil pressure fine but when i went to shut the engine off i turned the key back and it didnt shut off, so i have figured out it is because i have a constant 12v source going to my distributor instead of having 12v only when the key is on. so i cut the wire and added in a switch. I went to start it,it turned over but didnt start so i gave it some gas tried again and nothing car wouldn't turn. Everything else works fine(i.e lights,indicators, gauges,etc.) the engine just won't turn over so i disconnected the switch and just put it back to the way i had it before..same thing nothing engine won't turn over so now this is what i have done.

1) tried to jump the starter didnt do anything(had the wires that needed to be on it on it.
2) took the starter off the engine gave connected the battery wire to it and tried to jump it off the car with th ignition wire not attached or the other wire and it didnt move, so i assumed it was the starter...
3) went and picked up a new starter, tested it with just the battery wire,it worked
4) hooked it all back up and turned the key,nothing.so then i tried to jump it while it was on the car and all wires connected(battery,ignition, and the cars power wire) and nothing again.
5) took the starter off tested it again works fine, hooked the ignition wire to it and tested it using the key..got nothing so that made me think " ok its gotta be a short somewhere" but then i went to jump it and it would only jump when the starter is touching parts of metal inside the engine bay
6) i've checked all my fuses and they are fine

so know what i need to know is
1) why will my starter only work outside of the car when its not bolted to the engine
2) where could my short possibly be?
3) if i test the ignition wire what reading should it give my with the key on/off?
4) how come my starter has to be touching something in order for me to jump it? and why will it only jump not bolted to the engine.

please any answers will be great i need something im completely lost im looking over my hanyes and chilton manual over and over and cant figure it out

thank you everyone for your time and patience
-Josh

 

Do you have the ground straps all connected - sounds like starter is not getting gronded. There is no ground wire to the starter, it gets it's ground from the block - so if your block isn't grounded ...

Should be neg batt cable to block, and another smaller neg wire off the neg batt cable to the body, then a ground strap from motor to body (usually at rear of pass head). Check the grounds, amke sure all getting good contact.

 

lol i should have listened to you and not put a kill switch in since then its been doing this i will check those wires right now and get back to you

 

ok so they are all connected nice and tight...so it has to be something with my ignition shorting out somewhere i think....its the only guess i can have unless there is more to it lol

 

OK PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE lol
i got it to turn over using the key while the starter isn't bolted to the engine i hooked it all back up went to try it heard the starter..then nothin im back to square one any ideas would be great

 

i fear the worse...u siad it will kick the starter out of the moter still hooked up to the ignition correct? well i would ask you then does the motor turn over at all put a breaker bar on the crank and try and turn her over i hope its not locked up.

 

i don't think its locked up i can't even hear the starter engage or click I'll try and turn it tomorrow my dad is convinced its a bad ground but it ran before the kill switch

 

bad switch maybe

 

nuetral saftey? or kill switch, cuz i took it out to ty it and still nothin

 

UPDATE

so today i went out side with a test light. this is what i got.

1)checked the ignition wire are the starter, light went on
2) checked the wire at the distributor, light went on
3) checked to see if the transmission was in park, it was.(not hooked up to the shifter
4) shifter is in park position
5) checked to see if power was getting to the starter, light went on
6) checked to see if engine is seized and i turned it by hand so not seized.

now this is where its gets confusing yesterday i had 65% 12.6v on my battery according to the charger, i let it charge over night did all those tests today and jumped the starter and to my surprise..IT ENGAGED!
So i turned the key motor turns over...wtf? won't start so gave it some gas turned over some more little back fire out of the carb and then the engine just freezes...i think it seizes up so i turn it by hand and it moves i back track test everything again again everything is getting power but when it froze the battery dropped from 100% to 50% in a second and it had 0v then jumped to 13.3v and still at 50% battery life i try and jump the starter nothing won't move again check my connections and power again all good took the starter off cleaned the block up so its grounded good still won't jump...got this starter brand new from partsource yesterday...

ANY IDEAS, im guessing its my battery it came with the car looks new but not sure how old it is and it was for the v6 but that shouldn't matter

 

it can effect it to some extent if it doesnt suppy enough cranking amps to kick the starter to turn the motor then it wont spin the starter....not enough amps means not enough power to turn a bigger motor over...did you rid yourself of the toggle switch? backfire can mean a few things out of time most likely if i cam from the carb that may be a possibility but not the reason why its not cranking....try a bigger battery it may hold power but still have a dead cell in it

 

got a 742 cca battery hopefully that Will work lol

 

it should

 

ok she runs again put the new battery in added the kill switch and a push start the key still has to be in the on position but it was the ignition wire to the stater shorting somewhere causeing the battery to die and not starting so the push start is a quick fix but WILL not be permanent

thank you for all your help

 

cool man but please do not leave the ***** buttons in there