jchaussee

I have been searching threads , looking for ways to improve my 327 and I see a lot of 327 bashing. Typical answer is " get rid of it and get a 350". Why? Where is the love. A 327 can put out quite a bit of reliable power without breaking the bank. How much power is enough?? I feel like 300 to 350 is plenty for our cars unless they are seeing a lot of track time. Most build their cars for the summer cruising. Anyways let's give some love to the 327

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

ive owned a 327 in a 68 camaro that pushed out 450hp. and it was reliable. just do the right combination in parts and it will run good.

zraffz

I can't answer what the 350 craze is... if they are playing off the "more cubers, more power" logic, why not go around suggesting a 400?

Air_Adam

Yep, thats why.... and we do suggest that. But a 400 is far less common than a 350, and generally more expensive.

jchaussee

Or better yet. If we are talking bout small blocks. 427.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

A 327 is perfectly fine, in a vacuum. If there were no other choices in the small block Chevy product line, it would be king of the heap. In fact, it was for about 6 years or so.

Those of us who were in the hot-rodding hobby when the 350 appeared and started becoming available as buildable cores can tell you, the 327 was a DAMN GOOD motor when the only other choices were a 265, 283, 302, or 307. Problem is, we can also tell you how bad we got our butts kicked when the 350 appeared, and people who built them spent the same amount of money on them and did all the same things to them and used all the same parts, and MOPPED UP THE PAVEMENT WITH OUR A$$ES. There was absolutely no way to compete: equal money, equal parts, equal attention to detail, equal work, equal everything else, the 350 would ANNIHILATE the 327, EVERY TIME, no hesitation reservation or equivocation, no other possible outcome, take it to the bank. We got real tired of it and quit building 327s real quick. Took me getting humiliated about twice to figure it out (I'm REAL slow that way, old habits die hard).

Now as I said, the 327 is not a "bad" motor; or more accurately, a "bad" combinaton of bore and stroke to equip THIS motor with. Only, it's simply not THE BEST; and MUCH BETTER ones (the 350 for one) are a dime a dozen and are literally littering junkyards everywhere. Walk into ANY junkyard, and I DARE YOU to be unable to find a 350. They are EVERYWHERE. If you walk into ANY junkyard and aren't careful where you step, you will stub your toe on one; they're THAT COMMON.

If you have a 327, and it runs good and gives you no trouble, and does what you want it to, and you're not trying to compete in some sort of class where you're not CID-limited, then it's fine. Use it. Hop it up. Whatever. But it's like the 305 in one respect: if you have to TOUCH the short block, GET RID OF IT. DO NOT spend your money on it. Because, you will SURELY get beat by somebody that spent THE SAME, or maybe even LESS, on a bigger motor (most likely a 350). That's where the dividing line falls: at short block work.

Think of it this way:

Fun = CID * $$$$

Real simple, eh? For any given amount of $$$$, if you add more CID, you get more Fun. Or, it takes more $$$$ to get an equal amount of Fun, if you start out with less CID. Or, if you have few $$$$ but you want lots of Fun, the quickest way there is CID. It's just cars, not rocket science or anything. If an epsilon-double-minus sub-moron like me can "get it", surely you can too.

So remember. It's just like a 305. Anything above the head gasket you want to do, go ahead and do it. Anything below the head gasket, throw it away and get more CID. Pretty simple rule really.

cuisinartvette

/thread

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Why so small?

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ine/index.html

Stock Car Racer

I'm sorry, but this post completely lacks intelligence.

From 1962 to 1967 - all 327 Chevrolet engines had a STEEL crankshaft and was internally balanced.
The weight of the balancer on the front of the engine and the amount of malloy that you have to add to the crankshaft is minimal compared to other combination.

When Nascar was forced to use a small block Chevrolet engine - their first choice for a crankshaft was the journal size for the older 327.
It is now the same size as used for a 283.

You have to understand bearing speed and other internal forces that acts against the bottom end that subtracts horsepower from the final equation.

I don't know how much you people understand about a internal combustion engine - but the double hump heads - fulie heads that first came on the 327's were state of the art at the time and if you look at the car collection that Junior Johnson has - there is several 40 Ford Standard - automobiles with a 327 engine with fulie heads on them.

Junior Johnson and Smokey Yunick were the people most responsible for the development of the small block Chevrolet.

Yes you do need a stout bottom end to make power, but the horsepower comes out of the heads and not the bottom end.
The bore is exactly the same between the 327 and the 350 - at 4.001
The 68 - 327 even had a large journal crankshaft and it was also a steel crank and not a cast iron piece of junk.

The shorter the stroke, the quicker you can get the engine to accelerate and the higher you can carry sustained RPM's.

The DZ 302 was nothing but a 327 bore and a 283 crankshaft.
The best part about it was that it was able to hold 9,000 rpms way back in 1968 - 69, and it took Nascar 20 years to be able to do the same thing with their so called big block engines and later versions of small block engines which shared similar parts with the old 302 / 327.

There was a test done in the 1920's where engineers documented the results of experiments made to internal combustion engines and it was found that the ultimate size bore was + or - .125 of 4 inches.

That is the reason why the bulk of small block Chevrolet's falls into this category.

The 400 bore is 4.125 - stock.

With the introduction of the SB 2 - the increased the bore spacing which allowed them to move the cylinders outward and change the valve stagger to get rid of hot spots in the heads and allowed the Nascar teams to get bores of around 4.250 which is about as large as you want to go - because when you add bore - you also have to deduct stroke.
The advantage of the larger bore is that you have more quench area on the top of the piston and that extra squish is what gives you the compression and the area needed to fit the larger valves and unshroud the valves so the heads can breath better.

If you read the new issue of Circle Track they show the new heads which were introduced at the PRI show this year which is a 9* head - which retains the original valve stagger.
The heads do not make as much top end power as the 11 - 12* heads, but they have more bottom end power in the 1500 - 7500 Rpm range which is where it is most useful for a dirt late model and a street machine.

With the right heads, camshaft, intake manifold, carb, ignition, exhaust - it is possible to obtain as much as 450 HP easily out of a 327 SBC with 100 octane gasoline.

The same components on the same configuration - with a slightly longer stroke crankshaft (3.48 vs 3.250) - 350 engine would only produce about 15 more hp on the dyno then the 327 - so how much are you really giving up?

jchaussee

Read my original post. I was jusy asking why all the bashing. My point is that for most third gen owners, a 327 will put out plenty of power with a few minor upgrades. I myself kindof like the sound and high revs of mine. I would be completely happy with 300 or so horses. More then enough I need to cruise in the summer. And I can achieve those results on a mild budjet.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I'd love to have my 327 from my wheel standing (don't tell my Dad it was capable of that...i was 17! )Camaro from years ago, over my 350 of today any day!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

most of the bashing is because people talk about building a 327 from scratch or rebuilding one, when for the same $$$, or even less $$$, you can put together a 350cid. then people try to give them advice to build a 350 because the only difference between a 350 and 327 is the stroke, so same cam/heads/intake why give up 23 cubes (power) ?

as for the 327's "rev higher" thats not true in any practical application like a weekend driver 3rd gen so when people come in talking about the "high reving 327" they recieve a lot of crap. if a motors rotating assembly is properly balanced the valve train is what limits rpm not the motors stroke (the only difference between a 327 and a 350)

a 327 is not a bad motor to have or upgrade, but as said before if your going past the head gaskets the smart choice is to go with as many cubes as you can afford (350 is = or less $$$ than a 327 unless your doing a very basic rebuild)

jchaussee

Yeah I just rev mine up in my driveway. It does sound differnt also. Beings mine is already in my car, I may just upgrade the heads. I need to get it running for more then a few weeks at a time first though. LOL

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As stated, if you have a running 327 that does what you want and doesn't need anything to get it to do what you want, go ahead. But you'll still have issues with mounting 3rd gen accessories and using unleaded gasoline.

I'm sure Junior Johnson's fuelie heads were factory unmodified.

Smokey Yunick called the SBC design okay, but manufacturing quality junk. I've seen more than one 327 with a flat cam lobe.

Put Vortec heads and a modern cam on/in a 327, and it'll run fine.

If you have to go out and buy a 327, don't. Unless you're convinced your only other option is to buy or build a 305.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Those are issues more to do with the heads one chooses to use & than with the cui choice.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

They are in reference to having a complete, stock, ready-to-run 327.

If you switch the heads, it won't be a stock 327.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Who ever said anything about running a stock headed 327? I thought we were basically talking about 327 vs more cubes (350/383/400).

EDIT - Who put that edit button there?

Air_Adam

If you are going to drop in a running motor, then thats fine - but you will have issues with the heads. If you're building a motor, why a 327? I think thats the point Five7 is trying to make.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

While there are exceptions, the typical 327 query post starts something along the lines of, "My uncle has this 327 laying around, and I was wondering about putting it in my 3rd gen..."

So, in response, we usually say something along the lines of:
Then, in the spirit of full disclosure, we need to follow up with:
So, that's why the "bashing".