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305 to 350 swap

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Old Jan 7, 2011 | 07:35 PM
  #1  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
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305 to 350 swap

I'm in the process of swapping out my 305 for a 350 crate long block. Here's what I've done so far:

Fan shroud, Radiator removed:

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Fan, alternator, power steering pump, fuel pump removed:

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Carburetor, Distributor, Water Pump removed:



Once I got the carb off, i saw this little thing laying there:

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It took me a minute to realize what it was. I'd lost it somehow about 3 months ago:

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All better now:

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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 12:10 AM
  #2  
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From: Sussex County, NJ
Car: 1994 Z28
Engine: 355 LT1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: 305 to 350 swap

haha that's cool. glad ya found it.

why didn't you take the accessories off after the motor was out?
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 09:40 AM
  #3  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

I took them all off mainly because I had nothing to do while I was waiting to get an engine lift. But also because the hayne's said so.
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 10:47 AM
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Car: '88 Black GTA, T-tops, digital dash
Engine: 5.7 TPI w/custom chip
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 327 posi
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Hey, just wondering what's wrong with the 305? What are you going to do with it?
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 06:12 PM
  #5  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Originally Posted by Davidgou
Hey, just wondering what's wrong with the 305? What are you going to do with it?
The only thing that I know of that's wrong with it is that it has 25 years of gunk in it. But, alas, I have someone interested in buying it already.
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 06:39 PM
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Car: '88 Black GTA, T-tops, digital dash
Engine: 5.7 TPI w/custom chip
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 327 posi
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Well, let me know if it doesn't sell pls
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 08:36 PM
  #7  
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Car: 87 Firebird
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

Will do. If you're looking for a 305, I also have a 91 GTA with a 305 TPI sitting in my driveway. I bought it for a parts car. I got everything off of it that I want and now it's just sitting there taking up space.
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 08:55 PM
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Car: '88 Black GTA, T-tops, digital dash
Engine: 5.7 TPI w/custom chip
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 327 posi
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Originally Posted by Will71
Will do. If you're looking for a 305, I also have a 91 GTA with a 305 TPI sitting in my driveway. I bought it for a parts car. I got everything off of it that I want and now it's just sitting there taking up space.
The thing is that you're like 355 miles away from me. What are you asking for the motor?
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 09:02 PM
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Car: 87 Firebird
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

Originally Posted by Davidgou
The thing is that you're like 355 miles away from me. What are you asking for the motor?
$250.00

Last edited by Will71; Jan 8, 2011 at 09:22 PM.
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Old Jan 8, 2011 | 09:20 PM
  #10  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Shot of the hood removed:

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Took off the cross member and jacked the rear of the tranny a bit, unhooked the starter wires, removed the engine. It was too dark when we finished so I'll have to take some pics tomorrow. I forgot about the tranny plug, so my car bled all over the driveway. No biggie. It'll clean up. Got the tranny removed from the engine, and the engine on the stand. Again, pics tomorrow.

Went out and bought a new Edelbrock Performer intake manifold ($153.00 total) for the new 350. Paulie mentioned that the flywheel had some teeth chipped, so tomorrow I'll take another trip to Advance Auto and see about replacing that. I need some RTV also so I'll pick up some of that while I'm there.

Question: if I run into clearance issues with the new engine/manifold/air filter combo, how hard would it be to fabricate some type of "shaker" system for the hood? It would probably be easier to find a shaker itself and cut out the hood to match that, wouldn't it? I'm just tossing out ideas around in my mind right now. I'm also wondering if an earlier hood would work, with the raised cowl on the driver's side. Or, maybe just get a thinner air filter. *THAT* would be the easiest way around that issue.

Next up: cleaning up the engine bay, painting it all nice and purty, then work on transferring accessories. Also plan on replacing some wiring in there that's showing bare wires from years of heat.

More updates as they arrive.
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Old Jan 9, 2011 | 07:37 PM
  #11  
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Car: 87' Camaro
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

well, the 350 isn't any taller, and i didn't notice any difference in height going to a performer manifold, so if you have any clearance issues i would think a shorter air filter would do the trick
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Old Jan 9, 2011 | 09:15 PM
  #12  
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Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

What is this part? It screws into the head, and has a wire clipped to it. I *think* it's the engine temperature sensor, but I can't find a pic of it on the internet.

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The one in the 305 is too small for the 350, so I have to replace it. Also... the knock sensor on the 305 had no wires or hoses or anything attached to it. Is it safe to leave it off of the 350? Where it should go, there's a plug screwed in it's place. If I understand correctly, the knock sensor is mainly for a fuel injected engine. I'm staying carb.

***EDIT***
I think I found it. This is the only thing that looks like the part:

http://paceperformance.com/i-5118460...t-threads.html

Also, on the passenger side, there is another sensor in the same place (toward the rear, since the head is facing the other direction), which looks like a disk with a small pinhole in the center. Once again, there were no wires, hoses or anything attached. I need something to plug that hole on the new heads too, which is also bigger than the hole in the 305.

Last edited by Will71; Jan 18, 2011 at 12:50 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2011 | 09:23 PM
  #13  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Shots of the engine bay, sans engine:

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Look at all that oil and grime. I've got a LOT of cleaning to do.
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Old Jan 10, 2011 | 01:14 PM
  #14  
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Car: 87 Firebird
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Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

I soaked it with Advance Auto Engine Cleaner. The rain has stopped and I just went out to look at it... it's tons better now. Just a few spots of buildup in small crevices.

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Old Jan 10, 2011 | 06:18 PM
  #15  
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Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Originally Posted by Will71
What is this part? It screws head, and has a wire clipped to it. I *think* it's the engine temperature sensor, but I can't find a pic of it on the internet.



The one in the 305 is too small for the 350, so I have to replace it. Also... the knock sensor on the 305 had no wires or hoses or anything attached to it. Is it safe to leave it off of the 350? Where it should go, there's a plug screwed in it's place. If I understand correctly, the knock sensor is mainly for a fuel injected engine. I'm staying carb.

***EDIT***
I think I found it. This is the only thing that looks like the part:

http://paceperformance.com/i-5118460...t-threads.html

Also, on the passenger side, there is another sensor in the same place (toward the rear, since the head is facing the other direction), which looks like a disk with a small pinhole in the center. Once again, there were no wires, hoses or anything attached. I need something to plug that hole on the new heads too, which is also bigger than the hole in the 305.
On the driver side, it is the temperature gauge sending unit. On the passenger side, it is the radiator fan switch. If you have an engine-driven fan, you don't need the radiator fan switch. If your car had an electric radiator fan, I'd keep it.
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Old Jan 10, 2011 | 07:52 PM
  #16  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Originally Posted by five7kid
On the driver side, it is the temperature gauge sending unit. On the passenger side, it is the radiator fan switch. If you have an engine-driven fan, you don't need the radiator fan switch. If your car had an electric radiator fan, I'd keep it.

Sweet. Thank you for that bit of info. I feel better now knowing that there wasn't an errant wire hanging around somewhere. I'll just get a plug to fill that hole.
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 07:39 PM
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Car: 87 Firebird
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Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Finally, a nice day today. Low 60s. I was able to finish cleaning and paint the engine bay:

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Color: flat black Krylon Rust Tough.

Got a little done to the new engine too. Put on a new timing chain cover, and bolted up a new intake manifold and cleaned, painted the valve covers with the same paint that I did the bay in. I'll have more pics tomorrow of the engine. It was too dark by the time I remembered to take shots of it :/
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Old Jan 15, 2011 | 10:04 PM
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Car: '88 Black GTA, T-tops, digital dash
Engine: 5.7 TPI w/custom chip
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 327 posi
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Looks really good. Keep the pics coming! Good job.
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Old Jan 16, 2011 | 06:37 PM
  #19  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
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Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

One more good full day of working on the engine. Here's what I did today:

Oil pump and rear mail seal stuff installed:

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Oil pan installed (timing chain cover done yesterday):

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And what I got done yesterday... valve covers and intake manifold:

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Old Jan 17, 2011 | 12:00 PM
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Car: '88 Black GTA, T-tops, digital dash
Engine: 5.7 TPI w/custom chip
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 327 posi
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Wow, looks great! Congrats!
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Old Jan 18, 2011 | 12:55 PM
  #21  
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Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

It turns out that i'm definitely NOT going to have any clearance issues. With this manifold, I don't need a the square plate adapter (or any adapter), so I actually lost an inch. Right now I'm waiting to borrow a harmonic balancer install kit from a friend. Until I get that on I'm at a stand still. I need to put the flexplate on also, but to do that I have to use the engine lift because the flexplate wont fit between the engine and the engine stand. The plan is to put the balancer on, put the engine on the lift, put the flexplate on, the torque converter, then the transmission, then drop it all into the car.

Last edited by Will71; Jan 18, 2011 at 01:00 PM.
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Old Jan 19, 2011 | 08:41 PM
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

Harmonic Balancer is on. Tomorrow I'll install the flexplate and torque both down, then the torque converter, then it'll be ready for install. Just need to wait for someone to help me attach the transmission and then lower it into the car, that has a lift long enough to reach. The one I got from harbor freight doesn't reach
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Old Jan 20, 2011 | 02:54 PM
  #23  
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Car: 87 Firebird
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

I figured... why not? Vettes have their symbol, Camaros have the Chevy symbol, why can't I have a Firebird symbol?

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I painted a section of the cover gold with a paint pen, cut out the bird from vinyl sticker paper, stuck it to the cover, then sprayed black over it. Pulled up the sticker, and voila
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Old Jan 29, 2011 | 09:22 AM
  #24  
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

Got the transmission hooked up, and the engine back in the car. Spent most of the day yesterday trying to get the freaking hedders back in. I had to jack the car up and go in from the bottom. The driver's side slid right in, but the passenger side was a PITA. I ended up removing the motor mount bolt and lifting that side of the engine about an inch or two before it had clearance. Then I had to use a hammer to make a dent in the one of the pipes so it would fit and sit flush with the engine.

I have pics of it going in, and a couple of it sitting there with the hood off. I'll post them up tonight. I need to put the carb on, some belts and hoses, and hook up all the wires, then double check everything, then check it all again, then I'll put the fluids in it and see what happens.
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 10:25 PM
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Car: 87 Firebird
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Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

So... I had a little hiccup with the top tranny line going into the radiator leaking, caused by the threads in the radiator completely stripped. I took the radiator from the '91 sitting in my driveway and voila... problem solved. Then I cycled the break in oil through the engine by turning the key to start with the spark plugs still out for 2 minutes, as per the instructions sent from the manufacturer of the engine. Put the plugs in, turned the key... and nothing. Troubleshooting time. I unhooked the battery, double and tripple checked everything, turned the key again and the engine turned, but didn't catch. It backfired tho. We messed around with the distributor for a bit, and got a very cool, but very frightening show of fire shooting from the top of the carburetor. I turned the distributor 180°, hooked it all back up again, and she fired right up. The car jerked forward, apparently it was in drive. Tomorrow I have to crawl under there and figure out why the gear shift is in park but the tranny is in drive. Point of the story... SHE LIVES!!! (sounds freakin awesome, too. Has a deep grumble now)
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Old Feb 1, 2011 | 08:18 PM
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

Here are the shots of the engine going in, and the car jacked up to put the hedders in from the bottom:

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I've got the hood back on now. I'll take a pic of everything all done tomorrow. Right now, the engine is slow to start, but it gets better with each subsequent startup. The first time I had it running I let it idle at around 18-2k rpm for 20 minutes. The rpm needle stays at a constant 1k in park, and 500 in gear, with no wavering what so ever. Tomorrow... the first test drive around the block. Staying close to home for a few days.
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Old Feb 1, 2011 | 09:16 PM
  #27  
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Car: '88 Black GTA, T-tops, digital dash
Engine: 5.7 TPI w/custom chip
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 327 posi
Re: 305 to 350 swap

good job, looks great
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Old Feb 2, 2011 | 01:19 PM
  #28  
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Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Originally Posted by Will71
Right now, the engine is slow to start, but it gets better with each subsequent startup. The first time I had it running I let it idle at around 18-2k rpm for 20 minutes. The rpm needle stays at a constant 1k in park, and 500 in gear, with no wavering what so ever. Tomorrow... the first test drive around the block. Staying close to home for a few days.
If you haven't done it yet, get a timing light and set the timing properly. You need to disconnect the vacuum line from the vacuum advance to do this. 8-12 degrees BTDC is typically a good starting point at idle without vacuum advance. Get the timing set properly, and it will likely start and idle better.

Is this a roller lifter engine? I see it is one-piece rear main seal, but don't see anything about the cam/lifter type.
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Old Feb 2, 2011 | 03:03 PM
  #29  
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

They are flat tappet. Would poor timing be a cause for the positive battery cable to get hot to the touch and the negative battery cable to get so hot as to melt the rubber bushings?
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Old Feb 2, 2011 | 03:27 PM
  #30  
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Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Timing shouldn't cause hot cables unless it is kicking back into the starter so bad it barely starts. You either have something hooked up wrong, a bad starter, or cables that are too small.

Flat tappet means you need to go through a cam break-in procedure when the engine is first started. Hopefully you either did that, or haven't run it long enough to cause damage.

Flat tappet also means you need to use an engine oil that has sufficient ZDDP in it. The typical GF-4 or GF-5 oil now on the shelf for OBD-II engines does not, and will wear your cam & lifters prematurely. Either use a ZDDP additive, or look for a pre-2007 model year diesel oil that is rated API CI-4+, SL (the "SL" is important, because the "S" means "spark ignition" - i.e., gasoline engine).
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Old Feb 2, 2011 | 03:50 PM
  #31  
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

Originally Posted by five7kid
Timing shouldn't cause hot cables unless it is kicking back into the starter so bad it barely starts. You either have something hooked up wrong, a bad starter, or cables that are too small.

Flat tappet means you need to go through a cam break-in procedure when the engine is first started. Hopefully you either did that, or haven't run it long enough to cause damage.

Flat tappet also means you need to use an engine oil that has sufficient ZDDP in it. The typical GF-4 or GF-5 oil now on the shelf for OBD-II engines does not, and will wear your cam & lifters prematurely. Either use a ZDDP additive, or look for a pre-2007 model year diesel oil that is rated API CI-4+, SL (the "SL" is important, because the "S" means "spark ignition" - i.e., gasoline engine).
Thanks for the info on the cables. They're the same ones I had before when the 305 was in. I'll look into the possibility of replacing them.

For the oil, I've got joe's break in oil with zinc. came with the engine.I followed the instructions sent with the engine for cycling the oil and letting it run 20 minutes at 1800 - 2k rpm.
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Old Feb 2, 2011 | 03:54 PM
  #32  
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Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Originally Posted by Will71
For the oil, I've got joe's break in oil with zinc. came with the engine.I followed the instructions sent with the engine for cycling the oil and letting it run 20 minutes at 1800 - 2k rpm.
Very good. Did they recommend anything for after break-in?
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Old Feb 2, 2011 | 04:00 PM
  #33  
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Re: 305 to 350 swap

Change the oil after 500 miles, check for leaks, change after another 500. Don't maintain any high rates of speed and take it easy until after about 1200 miles.
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Old Feb 2, 2011 | 10:39 PM
  #34  
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Be sure to use ZDDP oil as stated above.
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Old Feb 3, 2011 | 12:33 PM
  #35  
Will71's Avatar
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Junior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 66
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Taking the advice from someone, I looked under the hood and found a flat, braided wire attached to the firewall, and hanging loose on the other end. I attached the loose end to the engine and it started instantly when I turned the key. I let it run for a few minutes and checked the terminals... no heating. Shut the car off, started right back up. I did this about 5 or 6 times. Every time it started right away. Just need to set the timing now.
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Old Feb 4, 2011 | 06:50 PM
  #36  
Will71's Avatar
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 66
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From: King George, VA
Car: 87 Firebird
Engine: 5.0
Transmission: 700 r4
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Well, here it is, all done.

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Old Feb 4, 2011 | 10:32 PM
  #37  
Davidgou's Avatar
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 504
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From: Hollywood, FL
Car: '88 Black GTA, T-tops, digital dash
Engine: 5.7 TPI w/custom chip
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 327 posi
Re: 305 to 350 swap

Great job man, congrats!!! Looks great!
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