anyone have a good 454 Build sheet, producing about 5-700HP?

 

700 hp from a 454 is asking a lot. What do you intend to use it for? Giving specs for an all out race engine won't do you any good if you plan on using it for a daily driver that never sees over 3000 rpm.

 

im looking for about 500-700HP.

and yes it will be a daily driver.

any suggestions or guidance to build sheets?

 

So which is it, 5 horsepower or 700 horsepower..big difference

 

forced induction

 

Why would you want 700 horsepower on the road as a daily driver? Have you ever driven a 700 horse car!? (I'm going to guess no since you are 19). You'd be dead in a few weeks. That's like a low 10 second street car... I've been in a high 10 second radial car and I was scared.

 

like i said 500 being the lowest 700 being the highest.

500 obviously is more appropriate.

 

could i build a 454 with 550HP for under 11,000$?

 

Depends what you have to start with but a 500 hp 454 isn't that hard to do.

As mentioned above, the best way is forced induction (a power adder). If you don't want to use a blower or turbo, a simple nitrous setup can bump you from a 500 hp engine to a 700 hp engine when you need it.

A 700 hp NA engine won't have very good street manners for a daily driver unless it's at least a 632 CID

 

I don't mean to be a pest, but you do realize the engine I offered you yesterday will make about 600 Hp on pump gas and it will cost you less than half of that $11K? The best way to make the most of your money is to buy somebody else's project. Then you have more money to do other cool things to your car.

Not to mention, those custom made Lemons headers I was talking about? Well, they're the only set in the world and fit like a glove in the engine bay. Lemons is some of the best stuff you can buy. You will never find anything like this again.

 

Oh? What size are the Lemons?

 

I asked Lemons to give me a set of headers that dump in the trans tunnel with a TH400. The solution they came up with was a tri-Y design with 2-1/8 inch primaries and 3 inch collectors. (The collectors are measuring 2-7/8 ID with my tape measure.)

These are brand new. They are so clean I put them on my white carpet to take pictures. I've never had them installed in my car. Once, with the engine out of the car, I bolted them up to just to see what they look like. The headers have been sitting on a shelf for about 12 years. I called Dan at Lemons a few weeks ago and he charges $1200 for a set of headers. I just want enough out of these to trade or buy a set of Hawks LS swap headers with 3" collectors.

 

You can probably build two for that price and have a nice chunk of change left over.

A 500-550 horse 454 can be built for about $4,000-4,500 if you can get the block cheap enough... probably cheaper than that.

Put it this way, a guaranteed 550 horse is a cheap $1,000-1,200 rotating assembly with a $1,000 in machine work (for sake of argument we are building a 496). Now add another $1,000 for a set of dressed/machined 781 heads. $3,200 and that will live you with $1,800 to cover cam, lifters, rods, timing chain, carb, intake, gaskets and dress up accessories. They also have a $120 or $210 set of headers that can be made to fit with very little alteration to the firewall.


This is using pretty much all cast parts, eagle makes a crank that is stronger than a stock cast crank and can support the power.

 

hate to be a buzz kill but the 2nd gen camaro headers fit with very little fab and you could save $1,000.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ap-header.html

 

Not killing my buzz. Those are entry level headers for a big block. Primaries are kind of small and they look like shorties. It's definitely a worthy alternative to the Hooker headers (which also have small primaries) unless you like the look of side pipes. But at the end of the day, those Patriots didn't fit either. He had to smash up the firewall and grind the motor mount.

My headers have larger primaries, are mid-length tri-Y, are better built, and they fit. A tri-Y works really well on a performance street engine. The reason you don't see them for sale is because they are expensive to manufacture. Most people aren't going to spend the money on Lemons and I'm not encouraging them to do so. But there are some people that will perk up really quick at the idea of buying a set of Lemons relatively cheap.

 

My Ed Quay headers are worth at least that much also. 2-1/4" primaries with 4" collectors. Large tube race headers are never cheap even if you're going to build your own set.

For a basically stock 454, 1-7/8" headers are fine but if you have an engine with any kind of performance, at least a 2" header is required.

 

could you steer me to the P.N.'s you would suggest and parts?

 

We can't suggest anything without knowing more about the big block you are building.

 

alright thanks, ill be getting it within two weeks!

any blocks youd suggest? block numbers or anything.

 

Any pre 1991 factory 454 block is fine as long as it's a short deck block.

 

i heard something about peanut something aswell with 454's whats that? lol.

an LSX block doesnt use a carb does it? would this be a better option than my 454? or will it be more expensive?

im not worried about maintenance.

alky and zraff i really appreciate the info!

 

Using a carb on an LSx block is wasteful when the technology for the computer/fuel injection is right at your fingertips for cheap. You can build a stout LSx, but anything LS is generally 2-3 times as much as a smallblock. I would say it's slightly more expensive than building a 454. If you get into serious LSx modification it's very expensive, very fast. Prices have dropped over the years, but they're still up there. I chose to go with a build smallblock as opposed to a stock low mileage LS1. Price was the same.

Oh, and you'll spend some getting it to sit in there correctly as well. Don't forget that.

 

thanks for your input delta! yeah i was thinking of just going with the 454, i think its alot cheaper for what i want. i dont need a race machine.. but i like that big block sound and i want a bit of power to put the rice in there place. i think ill stick with the short deck 454 i can always achieve more power with NOS or Forced Induction. Thanks alot

any info on the "peanut" thing? i heard something about peanuts and a 454 haha and to stay away from them lol.

 

Peanuts... they are referring to a port design on the heads. If you buy a bare block or short block it won't come with the heads anyway (and we'd need to change the heads to get the power you want anyway).

"Peanut" ports are meant for torque, they are low flowing and an overall poor design. If you were building a motor to turn 40" tires, it would be perfect. I've seen a set of ported peanuts on a mildly built 454... it was pretty stout for a budget build but it stopped pulling at like 4 grand.

 

Peanut port heads are actually not that bad... they make a poor race head, but they are actually excellent street heads. With bigger valves (2.19/1.88) installed and some mild port cleanup, they can support about 450hp, and GOBS of low end torque, and keep good driveability. Stock, they have intake ports around 200-210cc. I wouldn't pass on a good motor just because it has these heads. They use an open-chamber design like most post-1970 big block heads, but have slightly smaller 110cc chambers (most others were 118-124cc chambers) so the compression will be slightly higher.

A set of the large oval port heads are around 270cc. They are a good street/strip head, but they are getting harder to find. They will support a big more power than the peanut port heads. The most common castings for these are 049 and 781. I have a set of 781s on my 454. GM only used these heads in production up to about '74, which is when they were replaced with the 'peanut port' heads.

Rectangle port heads are around 300-310cc, but unless your motor is over 500ci or its a pretty hot race motor, forget about them. You'll never get the full benefit of them in a small motor like a 454 unless you spin it to the moon. These are even harder to find than the large oval port heads.

 

Any aftermarket aluminum head is better than an old factory cast iron head. An inexpensive aluminum street head (pick any brand) can be worth a lot less than taking an old set of iron heads and having them reworked to flow better, have bigger valves installed and have better springs installed. Chances are the aluminum head will still outperform the worked over iron head and the aluminum heads will shave about 70 pounds off the front of the car compared to the iron heads.

You should be able to get a set of fully assembled oval port aluminum heads designed for street use for less than $1000. Find a set of 781 iron heads, bare, for maybe $200 (if you're lucky). Spend $300 for new valves since you want to put in 2.19 intake valves anyway, $200 for new springs, Maybe $500 for all the machine work (depending on what they may need, guides, seats, porting etc) and you get close to if not over the cost of new aluminum heads. Throw in all the other things to rebuild heads such as valve seals, spring shims, aftermarket keepers and retainers etc and you easily surpass the price of aftermarket heads which already have all that.

 

Where are you getting aluminum BBC heads for >$1000?

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot-Perfor...ductId=1122040

OK, they're bare castings but 2 heads are less than $1000.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot-Perfor...ductId=1122040

Assembled, they're only $1400 for a pair which is still a good deal over old and heavy factory iron castings. Ebay also has some good deals on similar heads.

As a comparison, my race heads assembled are worth at least $5000

We're not talking high quality, all out performance castings with top of the line components. These are mainly intended for street use. Aluminum heads are far more affordable now than they were 10-20 years ago. Some high end Dart or Brodix heads will set you back a few thousand dollars but are not required for a street engine.

If you just want to slap a set of heads on to have a running engine then some 781 or 049 castings with the original smaller valves will do fine but a BBC will always have more potential for upgrades.

 

Just something I've been brewing on after seeing and thinking about this thread... now before you guys all jump the gun, let me restate by saying I KNOW THESE ARE GENERALLY NOT GOOD WHEN PRE-ASSEMBLED.. that being said, if you were to build a 454 - would it be better to build a set of 781's and get all the work done, or buy a set of Procomp aluminums bare and assemble those? The work for stock heads gets expensive fairly quickly, so I was just curious. Maybe you can even get lucky and find a used set of Darts or AFR's for a grand and some change.

What do you guys think?

+ didn't see your post Alky (for whatever reason). I'd rather spend the extra money with Patriot, but I'm still curious about the subject I mentioned.

 

yeah i heard the AFR heads were pretty good, what would u guys suggest? under 1500$

2400$.. i changed my mind hahaha.

 

Keep it realistic. You can find machined & dressed 781 heads for $1,000-$1,500 all day long. Their is a set on ebay right now that flow a touch over 300 CFM on a 4.250" bore. That is probably enough to get you a streetable 500 horse on a virgin 454. I've personally seen a local shop build one and it seemed very stout (he told me he figured it was around 540 horse).

 

The question I have is - why would you pay that amount for old 781's when you can probably get used aftermarket heads for around the same price (or in this case, the Patriots are $1400 a pair NEW)?

Just thinking critically about it.

 

I looked into a set of Patriot heads for my old small block build and the local shop said he never had good experience with the patriot heads. He said something along the lines that they are slapped together in a very sloppy manner.

If you can get a set of aluminum heads for the same price, lovely!

 

which ones would produce more horsepower? aswell i think the aftermarket would be a better bargain i mean they are brand new.. and about patriot.. maybe the machine shop was saying that so youd buy his?

guess all thats left to do is pick up the block and a stand.. thanks guys!

 

where are these headers?

 

He wouldn't have been benefiting either way if I bought the patriots or not... he extends me his prices for pistons & rings so I doubt he'd be intentionally doing me wrong.

As far as the headers go, read here:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ap-header.html

They may not be perfect but realistically it's a heck of a lot better than spending the extra grand.

 

did he mention anything about the casting quality, though?