Im pulling a classical favorite: SBC 350 swap to replace a tired old 305. The doner vehicle is a 1990 G20, and i find it hard to believe that it has a little over 200k miles on it! The 5.7 is very clean, the only oil thats on it is from the valve covers and its more like sludge than it is wet oil, thats an easy fix. It is a TBI naturally, and I have the ecm available to hook up as well.

Does anyone have any tips to what I can do? Or any thoughts and comments? My Camaro is an 83 with a holley so I can start placing the van's ecm without having a sitting car cus I have to have a running vehicle within a week after starting the swap. 1 question tho, is it possible to turn an in-tank fuel pump into an in-line fuel pump? I really dont want to drop the tank :/ Its a pain, Ive done it before on my friends firebird plenty of times to last me a lifetime haha

 

OK - I'm lost here. Your car is already been modified to an after market carb (the Holley), but you want to swap to the TBI system that the 350 uses in the van? Why? Why not just put your intake/carb setup on the 350 motor and be done? (especially when your in such a hurry)

 

I got the wrong holley, as in, mechanical secondary quadrajet replacement. Right now it wont pass California's smog tests. None of the emissions are hooked up. I got the holley cus it was in good condition for $120 and it ran 10 times better than the quadrajunk I had too. Im not a carburetor guy, I'd rather run fuel injection.. and I know TBI isnt the best, but I can deal with it until I can get a port injection setup later on.

As far as fuel pumps go, I think i can run a pump from a late 80's ford truck, and get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator housing with a stiffer spring so that I can run 13-15 PSI. I seen them on ebay, pretty nifty I'd say.

 

is there something wrong with the 305 that it needs to come out right now?

I will never understand the rush to do all the work of putting in a 200k mile junker without rebuilding it first?????????????????

Is it to simply say that you have a 350?

If I'm yanking an engine and putting in another, I do not want to be wrenching the replacement engine within a few weeks or months, or worse, yanking it again to rebuild it.

 

The 305 actually smokes and I have pretty bad fuel mileage compared to the 20, 25 mpgs I hear that other guys are getting with mildly tuned 305s and even 350's. Alot of that has to do with gearing but Ill get to that when I get to it. The van has been sitting around the shop for a few years now but when we first got it my dad started it up and drove the hell out of it in the back lot for some fun, said it ran just fine. Whoever had this van sure did baby it. We just never sold it and used it for keeping the fire wood dry. I had plans to rebuild it.. til I lost my job that is, but Im confident in this engine, hell my camaro sat for 12 years before I got ahold of it and it runs... now. A properly maintained engine can last over 300 miles before rebuilds, my friends dad is proof of that. His POS Chevy truck runs like a beast still.

Right now Im just concerned about getting everything I need before I actually do swap it in, so Im not stuck with a non running vehicle for a month, looking for parts.

 

Your choices for an emissions-legal set-up are limited. The factory computer q-jet is the only legal carb. I'd guess you didn't replace the distributor when you put that Holley on, so right there is 90% of your problem (although replacing the distributor won't make it emissions-legal). Either rebuild the q-jet, or get a rebuilt one (about $400 from O'Reilley).

If you want to go with EFI, you need to use a passenger car system from the same year as your chassis or later. So, right there, you're dead with the G20 engine/system (not that it couldn't be made to look like and act like a passenger car system, but as it is, it isn't). Going from carb to EFI, you WILL have to go through the "motor change" process, which involves a referee inspection of the engine you've put in, plus making sure you have all of the emissions equipment that went with that engine when it was emissions-certified in a PASSENGER CAR.

If you aren't willing to drop the tank for a pump replacement, then I'd have to conclude that you aren't up to an EFI swap.

Get the q-jet back on and operating correctly. If you really want the 350, I can't promise that in a week, but the best course would be to take the heads off of the 305, have them freshened up, and put them on the 350 with the q-jet system. Keep your mouth shut about it being a 350 and you won't have any problems at the next smog check.

As for the smoke, if blue and at start-up, it's worn/hardened/cracked valve stem seals, which can be replaced without pulling the heads or engine. If it's black smoke, that's from running too rich, which the q-jet will take care of when properly set up.

Speaking of 300k engines, my Berlinetta #2 was a California car with the q-jet. When I took it apart, it had 304k miles on the odometer (which was probably low, because the speedo was calibrated for 3.23 gears and 14" tires, and it had 2.73 gears and 15" tires). It had a rebuilt carb and other new emissions stuff when I got it, but ran terrible and they couldn't keep it running to do the emissions test here. I took it home, set everything to factory specs, after that it always started right up and ran great, passed the emissions test with flying colors. It was almost a shame to take it apart (but that LS1 really is sweet...). Other than gaskets, it had never been apart - still the stock bore. So, yes, you can get a lot of miles out of these engines when they are properly taken care of.

 

From what I wast told from my friends at an official AC Delco smog station in town is that any engine can be put in my car if it is out of another car the same year or newer. Any truck or van engine, except diesel can be put in ONLY if it's out of a 3/4 ton chassis or less. I cant put an engine from a 1 ton in and get away with it when i do see the referee. This van is a 3/4 ton so Im good there. It's newer than 83 so Im good there. I was told that every emissions part off that van has to be incorporated into my car, and then if I am missing something or Im needing to change something then I can do it. People swap in LS1 engines and they are smogged as the vehicle the engine came out of, so basically Ill be smogging my Camaro as a 1990 G20 with fuel injection.

I actually did change the distributor when I put the Holley on and it does run better. The smoke is white right now. When I had my Qjet rebuilt it never ran right and i spent a month doing everything I could to make sure everything ran together fine but never got there. Ive had the best luck after putting that holley on, but I dont get the power or mileage I should be getting. I paid the boss $100 for a complete running engine and anything I need to have my car running out of that van so Im Jumping on that, then I plan to sell what I have to try and make my money back if not more. I do have a parts camaro with a fuel injection gas tank with baffles, but.. that seriously is gonna be a pain! Ill do it if i cant find an in-line pump. Ill use a regulator to get my 14 psi regardless of what pressure the pump puts out.

 

California is a bad place to be for this kind of work :/ but it can be done. Alot of what I know about this is stuff I got from my buddies at the AC Delco smog station, and .gov sites for california A.I.R. board. Trust me I have done alot of digging around before I decided to go through with this swap, my main concern is just getting the physical work done and seeing if others have worked with TBI systems and what not. Im not trying to say what people know is wrong but there is alot of knowledge about this out there and Im trying to find the best way about it (: I have the technical government part taken care of, its just the actual physical work im trying to hear out. Ive never worked with TBI Before

 

Yep - you do have some weird laws out there.

Unless the tech is going to dig behind the driver side head and find the block ID, there's no way they can tell what block I have, as externally all Gen I SBC blocks are the same, from 1955? until the LT1. And even then, if a 1 ton truck has a 350 in it, it's still going to be the same block ID as any 1/2 ton truck with the same 350 block - so that kinda makes no sense to me, and I think you're getting smoke blowed up your a$$ because the person you are asking doesn't want to risk telling you anything that might lose his license.

AND - in the end, the block has nothing at all to do with emissions. So why would it be stated to you that you have to have a certain block? Or heads even, as they have nothing to do with emissions either. That's like saying it's illegal to have a chrome oil pan due to emissions laws - makes no sense.

What does a full inspection cost in Cali?

I ask because, I wouldn't go trying to find the block ID on every car that rolled in for inspection without a hefty fee, that's a big PITA given the dirt/oil/grime that accumulates there, as well as the fact that unless you are in the circus you can't see block ID's easily.

Oh - and I'm not doubting you, or what was stated - 100% of the time laws are written that make no sense at all, and the general public goes along with it because these days, no one really cares, as long as they get to drive. Heck, most folks don't give about their cars at all anymore, or anything else for that matter - as long as they get to keep yakking away on their cells and updating their FB pages you could cut their legs off and they wouldn't care!

 

Lol thats true. Well to see a referee and get it inspected is actually free... but it costs to buy the certificate.. I think my buddy at the smog station said it was around 20 something dollars? I wont doubt him for his word in all of this, he has an older fox body mustang that used to have one of those inline 4 cyl engines and he swapped in a 91 thunderbird's 5.0. Told me that he ran back and forth to the ref 10 times trying to get it just right cus he tried using parts from the mustang 4 cyl and 8 cyl versions, parts off the t bird and it was just a big mess. I shouldnt have many issues if i try using everything off that van. Im sure the referee will check the block ID to confirm that the block is from this particular van, im sure GM probably stamped different numbers on the same engine going into a 1 ton truck and an IROC Camaro.. You know I think its for the cam specs or something? Just a guess. The heads would have their own cast number but I want to keep the heads from the van, I hear they produce more low end torque.. which is what I want, if I cruise at my peak torque then Ill have my best fuel economy, or so states the theory. Plus, the Camaro's aerodynamics, and the 3000 LB average weight also mean great mpgs. People are shocked to see V8 engines, even BIG V8s get 20, 30 mpgs! It all depends on what you put it in, and how it is tuned/geared.

 

Remove the "unless", and you'll have exactly what is going to happen.

Don't underestimate the lengths they'll go to.

I'd doublecheck that 3/4 ton truck information. It's not what I've seen or heard, and I don't think you want to take chances here.

 

No wonder Cali is broke - must take 45 minutes or more to just do an inspection, and someone is paying the techs! NC just connects computers to car computers and fails for any codes (OBD2 only, OBD1 cars are exempt from emissions and just get safety (lights, brakes, horn, wipers) inspection.

I'm glad it's you guys and not me.

 

California is polluted, especially So Cal.

Not saying their efforts always lead to the intended results, but it can get pretty hard to breathe out there.

 

Yea no kidding, SoCal is VERY polluted. It's a scary sight, you're coming into the valley out of the mojave desert on the 58, and the sky turns from a brilliant blue, to grey.. sometimes brown on a bad summer day.

No, I got that 3/4 ton info straight from a California.gov site Ill look for it again and post the link.

I cant tell you why things like this in Cali are retarded like that, its a visual inspection more than anything else on a normal smog test, but they run numbers when you go to certify your car after you get a new engine, it dont matter if its a brand new GM Goodwrench 350 crate engine or not.

Oh and earlier, how I said I would have to smog test my Camaro as a 90 van, I meant to say, pass the emissions test with the same numbers expected to pass a normal 90 G20 van with a 350 and it's original smog equipment. TBI did not exist on a 350 in a 1983 Z28 and basically California says fuel injection runs cleaner, so use it. And, you cant put a carb on a vehicle that originally ran fuel injection.... legally lol.

Seriously I live here in Cali and I bash on this state more than anyone, you cant put any thing on your car UNLESS it has a CARB number on it... Even if these nice Hooker headers will let my car pass with 20% better results on the smog test, if there is no CARB number, then it's illegal

 

That would be good to know, because like I said, that wasn't my understanding.

It makes sense, of course, that a '90 3/4 ton truck runs cleaner than an '83 passenger car, but you know how it is...

 

Or you can tune for E85, obtain the Federal alternative fuel emissions exemption and tell the Cali smog board where to stick it

 

Ill probably have to do that, I just remembered that this van might of been registered in Canada or made in Canada. It has Arizona plates on it at the moment though. So the engine might have 10054727 as the cast number.. I havent checked it yet. If this is a Canadian engine it probably wont have what I need on it already to pass it for Californian standards which will be a pain. But, if I keep my carbureted setup on the newer 350 then I just keep my mouth shut at the smog check. Im wanting to get the vortec setup from a 96 and newer car or truck when I can but that will be much later. Then again, I do have over a year to get it checked out by a referee, how are they gonna know I swapped engines a year before my next smog check? Id have this time to find CA compliant smog equipment to bolt on, maybe AIR injection? Im not sure if the California G20 vans even had AIR Injection

 

Yep, missed a detail on the ca.gov site, doner vehicle must be california smog certified... but the possibility of it working fine is still there, a california cert vehicle might have the exact same parts as a Colorado certified vehicle. My friend has a 91 Camaro RS with TBI and that engine looks very very identical except the air cleaner is different. There is NO air injection smog pump either. Ill keep digging around for info, a cast number is a cast number but a vehicle VIN number tells you if its Californian, or Canadian. Brand new 350's are hencho en mexico so theres a story haha

 

Some were in the past, but not lately.

 

Ive thought of another way, if I can confirm that this engine's cast numbers were also used in california vans, and how california's smog regulations changed a bit in 1991, all I have to do is find a smashed, un-salvageable 90 or 91, depending on if there is a cast number difference on the block between a 90 and 91 G20, and just use the VIN number from that van when I show the ref what vehicle the engine I have now came out of. The smog pump, if i need it wont be an issue, I think that was the only difference between California cars and 49-state cars.

Where are the new 350s made now? Ill laugh if it's Canada! I Doubt It Though

 

I doubt the inspector will check the block casting # or the motor's VIN stamp; never happened to me while I lived out there. (Carlsbad) Which SUCT because I did THE EXACT THING I always tell people NOT to do, just in case they did: I rebuilt the car's original motor. What a bone-headed waste of perfectly good gasket sealer. But, it's pretty easy to re-stamp the block, so that's not much of an obstacle. It's the casting # that might getcha.

If you stick that 350 in there and MAKE DOUBLE DAMN SURE that EVERY SINGLE PIECE of "emissions" hardware is installed and operating, odds are they won't look any farther. But there's always that risk. Just make sure you get those crap TBI heads off of it, so that at least it's about halfway worth your while.

 

Yea, the cast number im not too worried about, these engines were not JUST in canadian vehicles, that would be stupid. These were also in trucks, suburbans, and the Caprice too, so I heard. The cast number would all be the same, its the VIN number I need to worry about, but like SofaKingdom said, the VIN can be re stamped to match the VIN from a Cal emissions compliant vehicle. Anyways, are the swirl port heads really that bad? I know that good low end torque will improve highway mileage, but porting and polishing the heads of my 305 could also be good.. you know I should do just that keep my heads and make them flow better, switch them with the TBI ones later when I finish. As for right now, I have next to nothing in funds, Im getting all the freebies I can take for now. Im gonna take it to the ref in Bakersfield, or Fresno. But I should go hit them up, pick at their brains before I actually go to get inpected.

 

No, not really...

They're WORSE.

Your 305 heads can be made into halfway decent performers. Main problem is, they have the itty bitty 305-sized valves, that will CHOKE a 350. Not too hard though, to have 350-sized intakes put into them (1.94"), which makes a substantial improvement, if the bowls right behind them seats are blended. What most people call "porting", which usually means dinking around with the square part of the port, is mostly USELESS, so don't bother with that. Same with "polishing"; it accomplishes basically NOTHING, until AFTER all the other things that are a worse drag on performance than the surface roughness, have ALREADY been taken care of. By itself, it is worthless. What you should do is get the larger valves (the cheeeep Manley "street performance" ones are a great low-$$$ choice), clean up the throat and bowl, contour the guide GENTLY into a sort of "teardrop" or "airfoil" shape, and smooth the short-side radius of both ports, WITHOUT lowering the floor or removing any more metal than ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Doing a Cletus and BillyBob job of "hogging em out" will make you go slower. The flow follows the "common" side of the port, along the roof for the most part, so make sure there are no irregularties on that side. Shoot for the throat reaching about 85% of the diameter of the valve; I use a 1.5" exh valve as a go/no-go gauge, and just get the intake bowl to the point that the valve will fit in. All you're trying to do is eliminate turbulence in the ports, NOT make them larger. Then lay back the chamber on the intake side, on the side of the chamber where the spark plug is, so that there's more than just a crack for the air to get through as it enters the chamber.



Sounds to me like it's time to make a decision... do you just want a 350 in your car and don't care if it actually runs any better than alot of 305s do, or do you actually want some results to show for your money spent. Sure you can go fast for cheeeep, but you need to put forth some effort, and concentrate it on thigns that actually accomplsih something, and leave the Friday night McDonalds parking lot monkey-spank out of it.

 

That first one isnt showing the best angle and even I can see that it flows like complete SHEEEEET haha. Basically that is a 305 head, with a guide line drawn, by a new head gasket im guessing, and using a dremal, grind down some of the excess around the valves without grinding too deep? I surely dont plan on leaving my Camaro in this state for long, but surely a non smoking, non 2 barrel carbed engine will get a bit more power and mpgs and be easier to start (no choke on the carb) The stock 305 I have was the worst V8 option of the three, only Pushing 150 HP, but now, Im running a cheap spread bore Holley without the secondaries since its not a vacuum secondary carb on an engine that smokes for a minute after start up. That will not pass Californias NEW standard: if it smokes it fails

 

I got the engine pulled out of the van, got a new battle wound like any shade tree mechanic haha. There would be NO space between the firewall of my car and the engine for them to read any cast numbers, unless it was very clean, and they had a mirror and a light. They will NOT be able to read the VIN off the front of the block thanks to that super bulky accessory drive bracket. All I need is the smog pump, the exhaust manifolds with AIR Injection tubes, (that is if stock 350 truck manifolds will fit the Camaro's frame) and a VIN number off a california van or maybe even a truck lol its the same setup as in a truck, and the van specific componets wont be there to see, like the oil filler tube, and stuff like that.

Ill just save up the $600 or $900 for brand new aluminum heads with new valves and springs, new rockers and an aluminum carb intake, and get a TBI Base adapter since I hear that that setup flows better than the TBI intake

 

Yes that is a 305 head (081 I think, if memory serves, but it might be 416) with 1.94" intakes cut into it. I coated the head with Dykem and scribed the gasket line into it, about .050" inside of the gasket itself, so I'd know where I had to stop. The upper pic is one of the chambers stock, the bottom is showing a chamber that has been relieved around the intake side to cure the shrouding problem, wherein it doesn't matter how far you open the valve, if all the material trying to come in has to squeeze through a crack less than 1/8" between the outer edge of the valve and the chamber wall. That's where the flow is, is on that side, because of the shape of the port.

No I didn't use a dremel; I'm patient, but not so patient that I'd be willing to spend that many weeks full-time working a chamber.

The set of heads in the pic, if bolted onto a 350 short block in place of the crappy swirl-port truck heads on a stock van motor, would probably be worth a good solid 100 HP, with no other changes, assuming everything else (carb, intake, cam, exhaust) would support it. Maybe more.

 

So it would be just as good as getting a new set of Vortec heads, but without the price tag? What did you use to grind with? A dye pneumatic dye grinder? I have access to one. And scribing the safe line definatly makes more sense than just using a soap pencil. How much is safe to take off? Surely there is a thickness threshold that I shall not Pass or it could create hot spots right?

 

No; nowhere close. But alot better than they started out in life.

Yes I used a die grinder, and a selection of diamond cutter bits.

Yes there is DEFINITELY the chance of going all the way through metal and hitting whatever is on the other side. Hard to predict in advance. Experience helps. After you scrap a few castings, or thin them down so far they crack within the first month, you lose the eagerness to lay a BillyBob "hog em out" job on anything. Some places are thinner than others, for example the chamber roof between the valves.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-60859/?rtype=10

I was talking to a friend of mine that has experience in making anything he touches better and told me to take a set of heads to a local speed shop thats here in my town, probably less than $200 to work them, OR save up $670 and get a pair of Edelbrock Performer heads assembled and get a set of 1.5:1 full roller rocker arms. I think this 350 might of been rebuilt. There was a sticker in the door jam that replaced the original sticker saying that it was converted at so-n-so and the odo reads about 220K miles, but the engine was so damn clean! It probably has 50-100K on it already it wasnt THAT clean, but a bit of carb cleaner and a wire brush and its now nearly spotless. Any gaskets I pulled off stayed in one piece too so thats a good sign. The TBI looks brand new again. Im gonna hate re-using the stock exhaust manifolds fromt the 305 block but its all I got until I can afford 50-state legal Pace Setter headers. I hope the accessory bracket fits under the hood, I know Im gonna need a cowl to fit the air cleaner if I want to fit the stock one under the hood.. maybe

 

I got the 350 cleaned and painted. It will have to do until I can do a full rebuild. I know Im gambling but the original engine sat doing nothing for 12 years with the rest of the car and it passed a smog test. Im just finishing up the wiring and cleaning up the engine bay. My friend with the Firebird is gonna buy an 85 or 86 Camaro that has a 5 speed for $500 and Ill help him swap transmissions in his Firebird, and Im wanting the electric fan setup, the vinyl door panels and the much nicer condition dash pad, along with the gauges and things like that, we hit a gold mine basically.Also cutting the front springs a little bit really helps the look, and Ill find out very soon about ride quality when its running and I can drive it around. If its bad, I have back up springs just in case.One good idea I came up with is putting a hidden toggle switch in that controls the power wire for the TBI injector pods, if someone happens to hotwire or grab my keys tthe car wont start if the injectors have no power. The only hard parts left is making the new Y pipe, hooking up the fuel supply and making sure all the sensors work fine without having diagnostic tools to determine anything.

 

Your old 305 accessories will bolt right up to that motor; far better chance of fitting under the hood than those big truck brackets waving around in space up there. You don't want a bulge to be required in your hood just to fit the A/C compressor.

 

I guess I missed this.

Won't fly. California has been given special privileges with regard to emissions controls and air quality. They can't relax Federal requirements, but they can impose anything thing they want that is more strict. So, a Federal exemption would be meaningless.

 

Well you could always do that.... but then, they'll just politely decline to license your car. And nothing within your power can force them to go along with you. Probably not the intended outcome.

There's times to argue with The Man, times to figure out ways to weasel around him, and times to just assume the position and prepare to enjoy the experience. Emissions inspection in CA is one of the latter kind of situations. THEY hold all the power; YOU hold none.

People who have never lived there always seem to think they know more about it than .... they actually do.

 

Haha yea, if I had a dime for every guy on the east coast telling me in Cali... That Camaro that me and my friend will probably get has all the right brackets I need for a serpentine belt. I just remembered that. As far as emissions go, I have a year and 3 months to come up with a smog pump, the solenoid thing for the AIR injection, street legal headers with the AIR injection, and a cat. Also I need to get another computer out of a California vehicle, before I never considered that the comp out of the federal emissions van could be missing the function for controlling the AIR injection solenoid. Im taking the VIN number off a crushed.. or will be crushed, van or a truck with the same TBI 350 so if the inspectors ask what mine came from.. Ill have numbers, and proof that It was crushed.. they cant find proof that the engine didnt come from a crushed vehicle. If I do run a cowl induction hood, It will be a real functional cowl induction, with the right air cleaner for it, and the seal, you know, not just something that looks good.

 

All the wiring under the hood is nice and tidy now. Just needing to hook up the starter to the alternator and battery and have that go to the ignition switch. Some wires yet to be figured out too, but probably for the gauges. Found out that flex plates are different. The 350 flex plate has a larger diameter, but a smaller bolt circle. The torque converter that went to the trans in the van has a different spline, or I just wasnt seating it in right, I dont know. But I can fit it all, the old TC and the new flex plate match up and fits well. I need to start messing with the fuel lines: the old setup has them coming up towards the radiator so the lines can hook up to the mechanical fuel pump. TBI injection has fuel lines coming off the back of the unit and down along the bell housing, so I need to shorten the original lines. Just the feed and return line. On the van, they were screwed together with fittings, but if its low pressure I should be able to get away with using band clamps right?

 

The Monster... SHE LIVES!!!