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305 build 370+ hp?

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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 07:22 AM
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305 build 370+ hp?

I know this has been done to death but figured this is a good read if your car still rocks a 305 or your a 305 basher/dislikem whatever. Figured some of us guys with 305s would like to read this article. http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...s/viewall.html




This was done with a non roller cam.
'm not sure what's tougher, being a 305 Chevy, or being a 305 owner. It's all abuse and insults, and never any respect. Talk about building or hopping up a 305 and guys will generally shun you, or even boldly accuse you of being a fool. You'll hear, "Why mess with that junk motor? You're wasting your time." Wouldn't it be nice to lay waste on their stuff instead, with a few discrete bolt-ons? How about a bolt-on package that will add 150 crank hp, and still pull a good 13 in-hg of manifold vacuum at 850 rpm? And what if all the stuff comes in cheaper than what it would take to build the average high performance 350 short-block, and all the parts will transfer over to a larger engine and work great if you ever decide go bigger?We know there were tons of 305s built in the 1970s right through to the mid '90s, many of them in cars with definite performance undertones, most notably GM F- and G-bodies. We'll go out on a limb and presume that there are quite a few of these guys on a working man's budget who'd love to spring for a fresh up-sized engine, but have to make do with the 305 that's in it now.

No engine modification effort will be successful without giving it plenty of thought and planning. First, we really had to think about why the 305 has such a reputation as a pooch. We deduced right away that all of these engines were built during an era when horsepower took a back seat to other considerations, and were generally choked with all sorts of add-on emissions do-dads. Factory 305s came with anywhere from a low of about 130 hp, to a high water mark of 230 hp for the hot Camaro LB9 injected engines in 1990. Most 305s made right around 140-150 hp as the factory net rating, and that isn't the kind of output legends are built on. We also identified that the engine is small, and has a particularly small bore at 3.736-inches, while the stroke is the same as a 350 at 3.48-inches. The small bore is an immediate red flag to most guys; but is it really when things are looked at in proportion to the engine's size? In fact, the factory 305 bore/stoke ratio is actually slightly better than a stock 454 Chevy, and way better than any of the 4.030x4.000-inch strokers. Conjuring the Power Pack Actually, with the right heads, there is nothing inherent in the bore to stroke ratio of an engine of this displacement that will cripple cylinder filling, especially in the street rpm range of under 6,500 rpm. We had just the heads in mind for this project, the 180cc intake runner EngineQuest (EQ) replacement Vortec castings. These heads are machined for 1.94/1.50-inch valves, which are proportionally large for a 305-cube engine, and their low cost makes them a natural for a budget conscious 305 build. The flow of these castings is a major step up from restrictive stock 305 heads, and we have seen firsthand that they can support excellent output, even on a larger 350-cube engine. On a 305 engine, their 233-cfm of intake flow, if taken in proportion, would be the equivalent of running a 290-plus-cfm head on a 383 small-block combination. Our 305 should be more than happy with the flow these heads provide.

Shaver's Specialty Service supplied the EngineQuest cylinder heads, which retail for about $225 each as bare castings. We had Shaver's mill the heads a modest 0.030-inch, to reduced the chamber volume to 60cc, so that we wouldn't lose compression ratio compared to the typical production small-chamber heads used on these engines. Shaver's assembled the heads with a budget 1.94/1.50-inch valve combination, along with convention single performance springs with dampers. Later in testing, we wished we'd stepped-up to Shaver's extra-cost COMP No. 26918 beehive spring package, which would have allowed even more rpm, and possibly allowed the engine to make more peak power.

The cylinder heads from Shaver's were the cornerstone of our 305 modification plan. Besides the heads, we only intended a few other complimentary mods, intending to use a factory 305 short-block for the testing. Our 305 test engine had been stashed unused and unloved on a pallet rack at Westech Performance Group for years. It wasn't until the casting numbers at the back of the block were verified that they were even certain of what the engine was. It took considerable persuasion to build enough enthusiasm in the Westech crew for them to even consider forklifting it down. It turned out to be a low-end 305 with dished pistons and a regular flat-tappet cam. Some of the high-end 305s came with flat-top pistons for more compression ratio, as well as factory hydraulic roller cam setups. Our engine isn't ideal to show off the 305's potential, but if nothing else it does represent the typical 305 that people love to hate.
e.

Obviously, cam and valvetrain would be part of the strategy. With the engine's small-displacement and undoubtedly compromised compression ratio, too much cam would be counterproductive. Since this is a flat-tappet engine, we decided to stay with that type of camshaft, as opposed to a retro-fit hydraulic roller, which would have been considerably more costly. Had this been a higher compression roller block, we definitely would have gone with a more aggressive hydraulic roller camshaft. While erring too big would ruin the build, erring too small is also a mistake-one that would curb peak power. After much consideration, a COMP XE268H flat-tappet hydraulic was chosen. This cam allows a smaller engine to make power up into the 6,000-plus rpm range, yet its relatively short duration, at 224/230-degrees, preserves cylinder pressure and maintains acceptable street idle quality. For a general purpose real street cam, this stick is hard to beat. The final components of our 305 power package related to the induction system. This engine was a carbureted unit, and we intended to keep it that way. Later 305s had some form of fuel injection, but for all-out power and a broad rpm range, a properly chosen carb/manifold will out-gun the factory EFI stuff, and is far more cost effective than a trick aftermarket injection setup. The manifold decision was easy, since the Edelbrock Performer RPM AirGap consistently shows the capability to make good peak power, while having much better torque than a single plane. With the 180cc EQ heads, the AirGap would be a perfect match when considering the port sizes. To top the manifold, we decided upon a 650-cfm Speed Demon carb, a good general high-performance carburetor, in a flow capacity that seemed about right for an engine of this displacement.

The Test We had essentially mapped out our entire modification plan before hitting the dyno, a basic heads/cam/induction package that we figured would breathe life into one of these underachieving mills. For a baseline combination, the engine was all stock, including the short-block, heads, cam, a cast iron GM two-plane intake manifold, and a Quadra-Jet carb. As the engine was docked to Westech's SuperFlow 901 dyno in this form, the engine's virtue was disparaged as is usual for 305s. The scuttlebutt indicated the engine would be well short of the 200 hp mark, except for one optimistic passerby who put the number at 275. Well, the engine was being tested bare of all of its factory smog equipment, through excellent long-tube dyno headers, and with an electric water pump in place of the factory belt driven accessories. My 225 hp guess proved to be pretty close, with the 305 delivering 221 hp at 4,800 rpm, and 291 lb-ft of torque at 3,200 rpm. Normally, we like to make changes one step at a time, but in this case, we planned to make the changes all at once. There seemed to be no use in trying to run the good heads with the tiny stock cam, and the big cam with the junk heads also seemed like a dog of a combination. Finally, we weren't going to add a good set of heads and a hot street cam, and then cap it with a stock iron intake. This program was more of a full power package, so with the baseline numbers in, we stripped the 305 to the bare short-block and got to work. The heads were bolted on using Mr. Gasket's thin 0.018-inch head gaskets, actually the same set that had been under the stock 305 heads. The COMP cam got a new set of COMP's standard hydraulic lifters, along with COMP's pushrods and their Pro Magnum steel rockers. Shaver's supplied the rocker studs and guide plates that work with these heads, and before long we were bolting on the Edelbrock Vortec AirGap intake and hooking the linkage to the 650 Speed Demon carb.

What would the 305 make? We had plenty of time for conjecture while the engine was being run for the cam break-in cycle. Even though the stock 305 had show better output than most of the detractors had anticipated, there was little confidence in the 305's potential. Jawboning in the cell predicted numbers in the low 300hp range. There were a few surprised expressions when the 305 cranked 367 hp at 6,000 rpm on the first pull. With some fine-tuning of the air/fuel ratio via a jet change to the Speed Demon carb, power inched up to 372 hp at 6,100 rpm. That's credible power for any street small-block; enough to make a Third Gen Camaro really scoot. Had we started with a higher compression hydraulic roller 305, as is typical of the later F-bodies, there likely would have been even a little more. The lesson here is that any engine can be made to perform with the right combination of parts, even those that the vast majority of people are reluctant to love.

Last edited by slowoh5; Nov 13, 2011 at 08:11 AM. Reason: added pics and qoute
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 07:38 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

very cool, i had read this article many times, its very interesting. i myself am a 305 guy. i would rather keep my 305 than swap in a 350 simply because i rather keep the heart of the car original. Im all for totally building up the block top to bottom, but anybody could swap in a 350 the easy way. I would rather invest a few more pennies in my 305 just to prove people wrong. many people thing 305s are crap, the only reason why they are " crap" is because of the heads and cam & compression. those are the only major problem with these blocks, but with a simple build the whole entire engine changes. i believe the block is a 2 bolt main [if i stand corrected] so the engine can only withstand a max of mabye 450 hp. in the future i plan on building up my block with only the finest products to ensure quality, power and longevity. my 305 has a edelbrock performer intake, stock 750 cfm Qjet carb, edelbrock tes headers, edelbrock high rise valve covers & emissions delete along withe egr delete & cat delete. more modificaitons, but those are the major ones regaring the engine.


ps. thats cool that that was done with a non roller. I talked to a guy down at the performance shop the other day and i asked him, roller or flat tappet? he said only for high hp roller, flat tappet will be fine otherwise.
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 07:46 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

thats one of the articles thats heped me decide to rebuild the stock 305 . now just imagine how nice that one woulkd be with a t70 turbo on it .
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 07:54 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Figured this would be a good post for those considering putting a 350/ls swap. I personally want more hp BUT don't wanna take out the original engine that's in mine. It's made it 21 years so far...(with a rebuild of course )
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 07:57 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by slowoh5
Figured this would be a good post for those considering putting a 350/ls swap. I personally want more hp BUT don't wanna take out the original engine that's in mine. It's made it 21 years so far...(with a rebuild of course )

Totally Agree! ^
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 10:03 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by 84firebirdlg4
very cool, i had read this article many times, its very interesting. i myself am a 305 guy. i would rather keep my 305 than swap in a 350 simply because i rather keep the heart of the car original. Im all for totally building up the block top to bottom, but anybody could swap in a 350 the easy way. I would rather invest a few more pennies in my 305 just to prove people wrong. many people thing 305s are crap, the only reason why they are " crap" is because of the heads and cam & compression. those are the only major problem with these blocks, but with a simple build the whole entire engine changes. i believe the block is a 2 bolt main [if i stand corrected] so the engine can only withstand a max of mabye 450 hp. in the future i plan on building up my block with only the finest products to ensure quality, power and longevity. my 305 has a edelbrock performer intake, stock 750 cfm Qjet carb, edelbrock tes headers, edelbrock high rise valve covers & emissions delete along withe egr delete & cat delete. more modificaitons, but those are the major ones regaring the engine.


ps. thats cool that that was done with a non roller. I talked to a guy down at the performance shop the other day and i asked him, roller or flat tappet? he said only for high hp roller, flat tappet will be fine otherwise.
I am with you up to the point of the question of a roller or not.Just the cam profiles alone is more than enough reason to go with a roller.Then the question of the lack of what is needed in today's oils for flat tappet cams kind of closes the deal.In today's machine shop services market many shops turn down jobs unless a roller is in use.
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 11:04 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by 1gary
I am with you up to the point of the question of a roller or not.Just the cam profiles alone is more than enough reason to go with a roller.Then the question of the lack of what is needed in today's oils for flat tappet cams kind of closes the deal.In today's machine shop services market many shops turn down jobs unless a roller is in use.

well yeah and to tell you the truth, as you know changing cams isnt like filling the tank with gas or doing a oil change. if im to do the cam im gonna make sure that it is a roller to make sure that it will have the longest life compared to a flat tappet.
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 11:20 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

The 305 isn't a "crap" engine. It's actually a very good engine. It's just that the 350 is much better.
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 11:27 AM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by MGM-RS
The 305 isn't a "crap" engine. It's actually a very good engine. It's just that the 350 is much better.

yeah i know lol, the 305 is just a slightly smaller version of a 350 with more restricting components
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 12:00 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

305 ci into 370 hp is about .84 hp per cubic inch.Let say you remove the restrictions of the intake/heads.You still have the issue of the bore size and how much you can fill that.Aaaaaa-but not really.Ford's "5.0" is really only a 302.Yeah they do kind of not talk about that too much.But people rave about that,don't they??.I would be willing to bet if you looked up some of the super stock drag race cars,surely you would find some kick butt 305's.I mean wheels in the air on the launch 305's.So the loaded question for you guys to find is how are some of those super stockers doing that??.
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 12:03 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by freaky
now just imagine how nice that one woulkd be with a t70 turbo on it.
.... or a T88.
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 12:38 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

The 305 isn't a "crap" engine. It's actually a very good engine. It's just that the 350 is much better.
True dat.

Note that in this case, THEY DID NOT TOUCH THE SHORT BLOCK. Basically that's the cutoff point between modding vs replacing a 305: as long as you can take a good short block and bolt stuff to it, it's reasonable, but if you have to crack open the short block, time to do it to something else larger instead.

If you were looking to do the same thing but in your case a rebuild happened to be necessary, then for $50 spent on a different block core to rebuild, you would get about 60-75 more HP. The cheapest HP money can buy.... a rule of thumb in this hobby is, $10 per HP is the "worth it" dividing line, more or less; hard to argue then with HP at less than $1 apiece.

For those who want to keep their original engine but at the same time make alot more power when the OE needs a rebuild, a MUCH better idea is to pull the OE and store it, and buy a core 350 or even a 400 if possible to build up.

And then, if you just can't resist it, spank off about putting a turbo on THAT instead. Especially since the cost of ACTUALLY EXECUTING a successful turbo build is usually FAR MORE than the cost of a short block; kind of doesn't make sense to sink all that $$$$ into anything less than the most you can sink it into.

Last edited by sofakingdom; Nov 13, 2011 at 12:42 PM.
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Old Nov 13, 2011 | 01:59 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by Street Lethal
.... or a T88.
a t88 isn't too big ?
i said also not instead
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Old Nov 14, 2011 | 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 1gary
305 ci into 370 hp is about .84 hp per cubic inch.
Backwards. 370 HP into 305 CI is ~.824 CI/HP (corrected value inserted as well).

305 CI into 370 HP is ~1.21 HP/CI.

About the original article, they showed pictures of the "production cast dished pistons". They were the '87-'92 pistons, with a slight dish, that produced 9.3:1 CR with 58cc chambers. They kept talking like their CR was more like 8:1. Little detail errors like that erk me to no end. On the other hand, how they got a non-roller block with roller-era pistons is another good question, suggesting the engine may have been rebuilt sometime in its past.

But, all that aside, I agree with sofa on this one. If you don't touch the shortblock, then you can make more power for the same money than you can by starting with a 350 builder.

HOWEVER, a 370 horse 350 will outrun a 370 horse 305 every time, any day (all other things being equal).
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Old Nov 14, 2011 | 06:22 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Good article. Thanks........
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Old Nov 14, 2011 | 06:41 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by five7kid
Backwards. 370 HP into 305 CI is ~.824 CI/HP (corrected value inserted as well).

305 CI into 370 HP is ~1.21 HP/CI.

About the original article, they showed pictures of the "production cast dished pistons". They were the '87-'92 pistons, with a slight dish, that produced 9.3:1 CR with 58cc chambers. They kept talking like their CR was more like 8:1. Little detail errors like that erk me to no end. On the other hand, how they got a non-roller block with roller-era pistons is another good question, suggesting the engine may have been rebuilt sometime in its past.

But, all that aside, I agree with sofa on this one. If you don't touch the shortblock, then you can make more power for the same money than you can by starting with a 350 builder.

HOWEVER, a 370 horse 350 will outrun a 370 horse 305 every time, any day (all other things being equal).

Well on my Chinese calculator it worked.Yeah your right..............Again.
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Old Nov 17, 2011 | 03:44 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by 1gary
Ford's "5.0" is really only a 302.Yeah they do kind of not talk about that too much.But people rave about that,don't they??.
I think that Ford's 302 is a much better motor than Chevy's 305. Likewise, I think Chevy's 302 is a much better motor than the 305. The small bore of the 305 really limits what you can do with cylinder heads. The larger bore on the 302s allows for much better heads, even if you need some extra RPM to utilize their flow.
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Old Nov 17, 2011 | 04:03 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by freaky
a t88 isn't too big ?
Not at all, as it depends on how you build it, not to mention the exhaust housing on the turbine side that your using. A 1.94" intake valve is more valve than the 305 is ever really going to need, as anything larger than that is doing more harm than good in my opinion....
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Old Nov 18, 2011 | 04:13 PM
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Re: 305 build 370+ hp?

Originally Posted by 1gary
305 ci into 370 hp is about .84 hp per cubic inch.Let say you remove the restrictions of the intake/heads.You still have the issue of the bore size and how much you can fill that.Aaaaaa-but not really.Ford's "5.0" is really only a 302.Yeah they do kind of not talk about that too much.But people rave about that,don't they??.I would be willing to bet if you looked up some of the super stock drag race cars,surely you would find some kick butt 305's.I mean wheels in the air on the launch 305's.So the loaded question for you guys to find is how are some of those super stockers doing that??.
i think the difference is that the 302 is is large bore short stroke where as the 305 is small bore with a longer stroke... there are some mean 305s out there... but its a 350 bored .060 with a 3 inch crank...
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