Hi guys,

After talking to a good number of people, I've decided I want to build a 383 Stroker for my Z, rather than just dropping another, already built motor in it. I have a basic idea of bore and stroke numbers and what heads I want, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless (I've always been a sheet metal guy). I've looked through several build pages on this site, but most of the specs are complete greek to me.

Basically I'm building my project car as more as a ridiculously loud (straight piped, obviously), healthy sounding, weekend night downtown cruiser. Right from the start, I'm finding myself doing lots of research into different blocks. I've got lots of numbers, but again, I have no idea what they all mean. I really don't want to get into the 2-bolt vs 4-bolt argument that I've seen 100 times, but it seems everywhere I go, 4-bolts are the standard. Yes, I would like to have all new parts.

What I'm asking is for pointers in the right direction with this build. While I've rebuilt engines before, I'm definitely no performance builder, so any advice is appreciated! I'm not setting a dollar limit yet, but I'm also not spending $2k on just a block. I'm not looking to make 500hp, but I'm also not wanting to cruise around making 200hp either. I'd like to have the whole motor planned out before I start buying parts, as well. The only thing I've really got a bias towards right now is L31 heads. Even those aren't 100% yet, as I don't REALLY know if they're what I want.

One last question: I found a piece of software online called "Engine Builder 3d". Supposedly it has a huge database of parts that you can throw together to make a virtual SBC then get a readout of the projected numbers. Has anybody tried this?

Link:
http://www.virtualengine2000.com/EngineBuilder3D.htm

Sorry for making this such a long post, but I'm completely ignorant in this category. I'd be glad to answer any questions you guys have.

 

You need to have a definitive budget set in mind or you're going to get some VASTLY different builds. What can you comfortably afford? Once you establish that, we can go from there. Going fast isn't cheap.

 

if your looking for simple cheap and decent power id go with some vortec heads high rise intake carb nice cam and some headers should put you anywhere from 350-450hp depending on cam compression ratio and all that good stuff im not an engine builder though just what ive read on line when i was researching to build one btw dont know if you know or not but if you do go with the vortec heads you need a special intake to fit them

 

They would be the L31 heads he mentions liking

 

And other MINOR details like what trans / stall /gears ?
what induction?
have to past testing ? ,
worried about fuel economy?
A million and one 383 builds documented out there ; not all achieve the same results

FWIW you will be using a reg SBC 350 block ( unless you have $$ to waste )
( L31 Vortec block; cheap and common in junkyards , has roller cam ; likely to be 4 bolt) to make your 383

Or you buy this block ,already machined to put your shiny new 383 parts into
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-150100/

 

Honestly, I don't know what is expensive and what isn't. I was thinking about $1,500 once it's all said and done.

I was wanting to keep a 5 speed like I have now, but I know the stock T5 won't handle the power once this motor is built. Not to mention it already has syncro issues. I am hoping a good TKO 500 or 600 may become available for a decent price at some point. That's another question. What is the difference between them?
I have a Holley 650cfm carb I would like to put on it, but it's not set in stone. I'd like to stay away from fuel injection and a lot of the more modern niceties. Personally I like the oldschool look.
NC laws don't require emissions testing for anything older than 96 so that's a plus.
For a non-dd, weekend fun machine fuel economy isn't really a big deal. Matter of fact I was going to ask about using super high unleaded fuel. I can get 115 no problem.

This was actually the block I was leaning towards. Browsing several performance part sites I saw blocks upwards of $3,000! Reading through them I can't really tell the difference, but then again I'm not a professional engine builder.


Now, I also am looking for a more racy sound out of this thing more than super burn up the track performance. I've heard mixed reviews about the thumpr series cam. Most people say it sounds great, but doesn't make the 500+ hp they want. Fine by me. I'm thinking around 300 is a good number to shoot for. Enough to get into trouble, but not SERIOUS trouble

Maybe I'm asking a lot from this but it's simply from ignorance when it comes to building performance motors. TIA for the input, and those who have spoken up already!

 

$1,500 is potentially doable for your goals but you really need to know what you're doing and shop like a pro, otherwise you're going to go over budget very quickly. You're probably going to need to buy used parts to accomplish it, though; not that it's a bad thing by any means.. just be smart about it. I'd say you're skimming it with that budget, though.. and if you want quality parts I'd say you need to expect about 2,500-3,000 once everything is said and done.

Oh, and stay away from Thumpr and Edelbrock cams in general.. they're trash. Get something from Comp, Bullet, or Lunati (preferrably the last two). Harold Brookshire did all the major designs for all three of those companies (like the XE's with comp, and then the VOODOO's with Lunati) and his most recent grinds are with Lunati.

 

Actually i've read these arent too shabby. They surprisingly make a wide broad powerband. I'd run them for sound if you arent overly concerned about hp but there ARE ways to get the sound and performance you want. Thumpr stuff wont be a total dog either tho so dont be overly concerned. They likely will work ok with vortec heads since the exhaust side is so weak.

My cam was sorta thumper like, 230/245 on a 109 but with big .603/.613" lift. Sounded evil, drove docile, and ran like an ape who's butt hurts. 400whp, 11.4's ET's at 119mph best trap.

1500 is more than likely gonna be eaten up in the bottom end alone. After you buy the block and rotating assembly, you'll have no money left over for head work/cam/all the other small parts needed

you may beable to get away with stock reconditioned rods and cheap cast crank with some cheap budget hyper pistons... depending where you shop around but i'd balance the assembly for certain which can be a 200-300 dollar job right there. machine/size the old rods with new 8740 ARP rod bolts can cost a few hundred. It all adds up.

But in the end you'll like what you have

 

Has anybody else tried any of the Thumpr cams? I'm interested in feedback on them. Like I said, I've read mixed reviews. What kind of options do I have for valvetrain with L31 heads?

Also, vetteoz, that block is currently unavailable or it would be on its way.

As for budget, I had a ballpark number and no deadline. If I have to save up a little bit to build this thing the right way then so be it. I'm putting away a few hundred a month for my project.

 

Joe Sherman racing engines has done a few 383's with AFR 210 heads and the ***** thumpr cams, 235/249 on a 107lsa. Had the idle of a race car but still made torque and good power. They do work alright. Now your L31 heads will limit hp and rpm so you may want to run the base thumpr cam with less duration. I think it would be a fun combo. Just get a dish piston to keep compression below 10 to 1

 

Make a thread with pictures on how to build a 383 for $1,500 bucks.I am a doubting son about that.But you could prove me wrong.

 

Of course, since you're more interested in what it sounds like than how it performs, a Thumpr cam and Vortec heads should be fine.

 

Well I definitely don't want a dog, either. Any ballpark estimates on what kind of numbers I'd be looking at with this configuration?

 

It wont be a dog. It should be north of 400hp on motor but under 450. Somewhere in there.

 

Yeah.The fact some cam companies are building cams for the sole reason of "sound".That is sooooooooooooooo bricer that ignores the last 20yrs of what we have learned about the overheads.Man that bugs the hell out of me.

 

no kiddin'. freshen up a stock 400 shortblock with a set of cheap heads and a thumpr cam. done. would sound great.

 

What's wrong with a cam made for sound? I want this motor to sound good without being a maintenance nightmare or being too powerful for its own good. If I want to go fast or just get my adrenaline up a bit, I have a kart that I race. I never really liked drag racing and that's not what this car is going to be used for.

 

My answer is the whole history of Hot Rodding has always been performance first and if done right the sound of the engine was a result of that.To install a cam for the sound of it is a false premiss filled with mind games.I think it is dishonest.

 

1gary,

I don't want a race motor (because of the cost and maintenance that's involved in it), but I want it to sound like one. I want something with some kick over the stock motor, and I want to build it myself. I'm not putting many miles on the car, and they won't be race miles, either. This is a project my dad and I are working on together (when I'm home, anyway). It wouldn't be as fun to just drop a crate 350 in it. If I'm more worried about the sound than the performance, that's my prerogative. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this opinion. How do I know this? There are lines of cams created JUST for the sound they create. If this bothers you, kindly unsubscribe from this thread and stop reading it.

On to another question: I think I'm set now on the block (specs at least) and heads I want, now I'm on to valve train. I've read that there are different types. i.e. solid roller, hydraulic roller, hydraulic lifter, etc. Also, I've read that there are different types of rocker arms as well. What are my options with using the L31 heads?

 

Yepper.Cam manufactures have reached a new low with the offer of "sounds like" cams but isn't.You out grow that fast the first time you get slapped hard in a stop light street race.It's kind of embarrassing.
Look,if you really want me off your thread,no problem.Just know your asking yrs of doing this stuff to ignore what you want.Might want to think about that some.

I'll end this post with a thought for you.Just be true to yourself...........OK??.

 

Take the mufflers off and pull the choke out

 

Block you pick will determine IF you get a choice.
Summit roller cam block above lets you have roller ( preferred ) or flat tappet cam.
Old style (<'86) block is flat tappet only unless you want to spend big $$ to convert it to roller cam

Anything you like; stock the Vortecs have self aligning style
If putting a new cam in ,then 1.5 rockers . 1.6 rockers are for those wanting more valve lift without swapping the cam out

 

I really don't plan on racing it, though. If I want a race fix, I have other ways to get it. My town has a big police force for how big it is, and the only good cruise spot is by the PD and courthouse, so not really any chance to race even if I wanted to. The cam manufacturers are in business to make money, not just to produce performance. If there are a crowd of people looking for a good sounding cam, then they have the freedom to supply the demand. I don't really want anybody that could help off this thread, but I've had issues with people on forums in the past. I was harassed right off the FSC forums for an ambitious fuel mileage project (which is why I ended up buying my Camaro). Pages and pages of dudes telling me I was stupid, smartass comments and suggestions, etc. I am NOT letting that happen again. I know people aren't going to agree with what I want, but it's my project not theirs.

Already did that with the 305 in there now. It sounds...ok, but definitely not what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the info!

 

I'm more on your side than it seems.When people around you find the car isn't as bad bass as it sounds,it reflects badly on you as the builder of the car.Worst case is they might say so to your face,but behind your back.To have a high performance street car you build doesn't mean you have to use it and get in trouble with the law.Heck,you could buy a new factory rod,but that shouldn't mean it ends up in the impound lot for you doing something really dumb.

If you follow the advise of this forum and build a parts matched well planned out build,each time you get behind the wheel you have the pride of what you learned about it and working to build it is as much of the fun as driving it.You know that in no way have you short changed the very fabric that has been apart of hot rodding by a cam and it doesn't need to be expensive to be relativity done right.

Your in the right forum to get there here.Many of the members here are well equipped to get your build done right.

 

stock, low compression sbc with a thumper cam is about all i would spend on it. no roller cams or whatever else, thats just a waste of money for your goals.

it will be a slow turd, though.

 

A decent cam L31 head 350 should run 12's. A 383 with more torque should easily get there. Thumpr cams should get you there. I wouldn't worry about other ppl's opinions on your car. Go to any car show and see hundreds of old muscle that sound like race cars but be hard pressed to get out of the 13's. I'd say 50-75% of cars at shows don't run as good as they sound. My daily driven ls1 with just bolt ons, idles like stock since stock cam but has catback exhaust, will outrun a lot of those cars. It's been 12.1's lol and not much is done to it!

If this was goin to be a carbed car then I'd order a lunati or comp cams equivalent of a 268-276 advertised duration cam on a tight 107-108 Lsa. It will give you a good lopey idle and perform great at same time. Flat tappet to keep it budgetary

 

Orr-I hold you in the highest regard.I get it.Limit the suggestions to the question asked.I certainly do not want to lose any poster ever because I suggest a different direction for them to take.It's just these want-to-be cams being sold grades against me so much.

 

lol Not sure I'm one to be held in highest regard but thanks. I understand where you are coming from. I'm not a huge fan of it either because I know I can still get a good idle sound with a regular cam, playing with exhaust, and working the tune all the while getting good power and torque But if thats what they want then let them do what they want. Helpful suggestions are good along as it doesnt turn into an arguement trying to force an opinion/suggestion on someone else Its like the 305 build threads...always ends up off topic

Although its a cam advertised for "sound", i think it actually will work quite well in power too. More than enough to be happy with for the OP goals.

 

I'll admit I'm a misfit. I get a certain amount of pleasure taking my "secretary's car" (with bad paint, stock rims with highway radials on the fronts and DOT slicks on the back, full exhaust, smooth quiet idle, no power adders) to the track and pulling up next to the cars with new paint, flames, pizza cutters on the fronts, big tall slicks on the rears, 6 point roll bar, stripped interior, racer seat, big tach with shift light, spoiler on the back, lopey idle, open headers, and outrunning them by a second and 10 MPH. Even better when the other car is a Vette.

But, that's just me...

The Thumpr cams are going after the "muscle car sound" market. Yes, they will make okay power in a larger engine like a 383, but won't have the power or driveability of even their XE series cams. Like gary said, that "old school" sound came from what was "performance" at that time. Today, it's a different ballgame.

But, it's your car, and it's your money. Do with them as you please.

 

Ok well answer me this... if I end up deciding that the motor isn't exactly what I want after it's all said and done, how hard would it be to swap cams out? I'd imagine there's not much more in it than removing the valve train, removing the cam, set TDC, and reverse the order.

 

If you go flat tappet then cam and lifters need swapped, so intake off, pull old lifters and pushrods. Then rad and all accessories need removed to get at timing cover and possibly lower oil pan abit to get cover off. Abit of a pain IMO, but doable in a weekend. Once you set all the lash/preloads then gotta do a new break in for 20 min. Change oil and then retune.

Should do it once and be done

 

Well from everything I've read it sounds like roller cams are the way to go. I'm sure there will be some diehard oldschool guys that will say a flat tappet is better for all applications. My question is: is it worth the upgrade? It should just be a different cam and lifters, correct?

 

Yeah retrofit cam and lifters with cam button on timing cover to keep cam from walking. Abit more money but better option. No worries on break in or need for special oil additives since today's stuff isn't suitable for flats. You can run similar duration and run more lift at same time which will make more torque and power most of the time.

 

The roller option is certainly the way to go.Much better cam profiles and the added bonus of a broader torque curve depending on which cam you choose.If your going to use EFI the lobe centers matter for easy of tuning.

 

That's when you cover your ears, turn around, and walk away.

If you start with a factory roller type block, then it isn't an "upgrade".

 

Yeah 57-I think I said the conversion kits costs more than a fully machined roller block.

 

are you going to go with a stroker kit, or piece parts together? they are completely different animals

 

I cherry picked parts for my stroker.I found some kits aren't that good and in fact some are just out and out junk.I was able to build for a SCR with 5.7 good guy rods and dished pistons to use pumped gas.Packaged stroker kits with a low price point should lead to look for the weak link in the package.In terms of that I will never own,use,or suggest anything Eagle and just leave it at that.Also there isn't any power output advantage in full floating pistons unless you plan on swapping pistons often.So a press fit piston would work fine for this application.

 

I was planning on piecing it together. I've used kits before in other aspects and there's always something that could use tweaking.

More info: Since I have connections, I'm debating on running the car on higher octane stock car type race fuels (110, 112). Besides carb tuning what all would be different from running 93 pump gas? Would I need different hard parts?

 

I dont think you need special parts but you could build with high compression now if you want to run 110-112 oct.

But I dont see the need to do so when your just considering a mild vortec headed combo with thumpr cam to make it sound pretty racey but maintain driveability and not shooting for super high hp numbers.

Piece together a kit yourself ensures you get all the right parts for the job. Thats the way I do it.

 

use rods that are stell with alot of clearance in them, thats all i have to say. also why use a flat tappet when hydraulic is much better

 

I think the industry of high performance parts is geared to the high compression engines where to run pump gas you have to be more selective about the parts/ and build plan.Even with 93 pumped gas,I think a good target for scr's is 9.3 with cast heads.With aluminum heads 10.1.The thing with aluminum heads it is true you can raise the scr's but because of aluminum material lowering the scr it is in a weird way meaning less.Heat is power output and the aluminum dissipates heat better than cast iron lowering the scr,so what's the point??.It isn't a true 10.1 anyways.

Cam choice is dictated by compression ratio,so you not caring about having to use race gas makes the world more your pearl.You could given a good bottom end start looking at 64 cc heads with shopping for good forged dome pistons to end up having 12.1 scr's.The telling end result will be once you figured in a cam and the dcr.How much overlap can help or hurt the end result in the trade-offs for a planned power curve.For the idea for most hot rodders of a guy like yourself not minding the use of race gas,having a forged 12.1 scr on a stroker,would give those hot rodders a woody.LOL.Yepper-I owned fresh off the showroom floor a 1964 dual quad 427 Ford that was a 12.1 scr.It was a smile a mile drive.Buzz to 7 grand no problem with tons of bottom.

 

Because of aluminums ability to dissipate heat you have to run more static compression to equal the power of an iron head of same port style/flow. Differences may not be all that huge depending on the motor but that's a general rule of thumb

 

iron heads add 50lbs to the front of the car.

 

Digger.I don't think on a street car 50lbs either way matters all that much.

 

Use the vortec heads with a comp cams xe274 and then around 9.5-10:1 compression and you should be right around your goal for a street car with a good sound, and it also wont be a dog. Plenty of guys run this combo, and it makes good power.

I personally have vortec heads, 10:1 compression, and an 288hr cam, which is bigger than the xe274, and i have no problems with streetability, and i also ran 12.67 in 1/4 mile. The lope and idle sounds mean, and it's one of the things i'm most proud of on the car. I think with the right amount of power, comes the right amount of sound. That may be one reason why your 305 isnt getting you the sound you want.

Check out this website:
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56505

That gave me more information than anywhere on vortec heads, should help you out!

 

Trust in what I am about to say.In no way shape or form I'm I trying to be a PITA.I read and understand the part about you being proud of the car and as well as you should be.I think the Vortex heads are a low dollar 170cc comprise.Thing is it does leave to wonder if you have a really good set of heads where you would be under the 12.67et.That 355 really wants to see a 180cc head or alittle better.Now I don't want to open a chapter in a debate about Vortec heads.They are what they are and those facts are clearly known.As long as you build a bottom end strong enough to handle whatever you through at it,a bulk of the money should be spent on the top haft where the power is made.And anytime you end up doing a do-over it costs double.

Still is must leave to wonder while window shopping World or RHS what the car would be like those set of heads??.

 

No worries at all. That statement was actually a pretty popular one. In no way shape or form, do i think vortec heads are any mans #1 choice for their engine. I'd love a set of afr heads, but id love 1500 dollars for them as well.

The excitement about vortec heads running as fast as they do, comes from the fact that you can do it cheap. The OP has vortec heads, and hasnt mentioned any other head, which is where my vortec head story came into play.

 

Which is why I'm leaning towards them. Would I LOVE to be able to put 25k into a motor? ABSOLUTELY! Who wouldn't?!

 

Personally I would really stay away from a build that requires race gas. Reason being that you said this is a street car, not a race car. If you have to run on 110, then you severly limit your streetability. You then have to plan where your going to drive, and not go any farther for feer of running out of gas. If you build it to run on 93, you can then drive anywhere and get gas. I had thought about a high compression motor for my car too a while back but decided against it. And I am very glad I did. I can hop in and take a drive whenever to wherever.