iloveacamaro

I am seriously considering this. It is not a matter of whether or not I can do it, I can. My thing is how many people are going to hate me if i do. My main consideration for this swap is, I want a turbo. Originally I swapped in the 4.3 after researching the cyclone's and typhoons, and I knew I could still drive it until I could fund the turbo setup. Now I'm finding out I can get a complete 2jz swap, motor, trans, ecu, wiring harness cheaper than I can get a turbo setup for the 4.3 Also there is a huge aftermarket available for the 2jz where the 4.3 aside for using 350 parts are practically non existent. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

project89

iTrader: (1)

build ur own turbo setup for the 4.3 its not hard

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Just what project89 said. if you can do all the mods and stuff needed to stuff in a 2jzGte
you should have NO problem turbing the v6 in it now.

Run the 59code like the sy/ty and have a nice little killer v6

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

Cheapest setup like that I could find on ebay is $1800 before shipping. Then you'd need some custom stuff like mounts & driveshaft & whatnot.... Keep in mind an inline 6 is longer than a v8.

If budget is no concern, by all means, 2jz it and have something different and fun.
If you want to spend less than $2k, turbo your 4.9l.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the biggest difference is that the 4.3 becomes unreliable around 500-550 hp and the 2jz can go to about 1000

but to get 1000hp out of the 2jz ur going to spend some serious money and the thing would be a total dog on the street,

a 4.3 with 450 hp will crap all over a 2jz with 650 hp


ever see the dyno graph for a 650+ hp 2jz the hp or tq line dont move till about 6,200 rpms then it has a huge spike and comes back down by 7,500 so u get about 1,500 rpm worth of actual useable power

were as the 4.3 will make a bunch of tq off idle and will be a monster when the boost hits at a much much lower rpm a properly sized turbo will give the 4.3 a useable rpm range of 2,500-5,5/6000 rpms

iloveacamaro

i know the 4.3 is an amazing motor (and makes for perfect weight distribution), that is why i went with it in the first place. and i can figure out the turbo manifolds. the main thing that is holding me up right now is a multi-port intake setup capable of supporting a turbo. the cyclone/typhoon stuff is impossible to get, or way overpriced. and as far as i know there is no aftermarket?

project89

iTrader: (1)

u can cut down a stealth ram to work or go buy a marine manifold.
see if anyone makes a single plane carbed manifold for the 4.3 then u can add injector bungs and run fuel injection on it the same way we do with sbc's.

any of those options will cost less then a 2jz swap

u can buy header flanges for the 4.3 from summit and weld up ur own headers very cheaply and if u cant make ur own headers i can help u out with that part

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

edit.. project89 beat e to the punch.... what he said..

project89

iTrader: (1)

if u have the vortec heads
http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums...Helpfull-Hints

iloveacamaro

I was thinking of using the marine manifolds to mount the turbos? haven't picked up a set and played with it yet though. I didn't really want to get into making a multi-port intake, but that may be my best option i guess. I really did want to stay gm, it's just alot of work to keep the 4.3 tearing the engine down, pistons, rings, rods, head gaskets... where the 2jz is just drop in bolt in. It is a junk-yard engine with about 140k on it, and i am daily driving it about 2 hours a day so i don't think i would trust the stock internals even at low boost.

iloveacamaro

nice, yes i have the vortec heads. i have seen those intakes but wasn't sure how, or if they would work with a turbo. i guess that will be my next step. ok, what do you think about the marine exhaust manifolds?

poloaa008

I love this review I really love it

project89

iTrader: (1)

as far as i know the cyclone/typhon manifolds dont use a standart t3 or t4 flange for the turbo, so u would end up getting stuck with very exspensive turbos.

i dont know about the marine manifold though

are u planning ona single turbo or doing twins

Fallen2603

As much as I would love to see a 2JZ 3rd-Gen, or any unique swap like this into a 3rd-Gen, I'm going to have to agree that the 4.3L V6 will probably be easier and cheaper. Forged pistons and rods, main-studs, and head-studs would do the short-block. Maybe some port work on the cylinder-heads, if you want to go that far. A good cam for boost. An Edelbrock Performer manifold modified for an MPFI-style fuel-injection system. Maybe make a Y-pipe from stock manifolds to your turbo, and you'd be in business.

Don't know if you've seen these articles or not, but they could be informative.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...l/viewall.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e..._engine_build/

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

The 4.3 easier and cheaper ?


Right, i'm not buying that, not on any day of the week.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

To actually give you some useful info...

Whoever said the engine was longer front to rear hasnt measured one, i've taken a tape measure to one, and it was within an inch, it may have actually been shorter with front accessorys taken into account.

The silly idea that a 450HP 4.3 is going to walk all over a 650HP JZ, is just that, a silly idea, fed by looking at timeslips from cars with way too much power on nothing for tires, that arent setup for drag in the first place.

You already know you'll need to do custom mounts, both engine and transmission.

Check the engines you are looking at to see if they are rear sump or front sump, both were available for the jz, and you'll at least need to start with the rear sump, whether or not you'll need to make alterations from there is yet to be determined.

The stock exhaust manifold and turbo setup i'd be willing to bet will not clear the stock a/c box, you may be able to get away with an a/c delete box, i'd at minimum start with the turbonetics cast single manifold, a custom tubular manifold should let you clear the stock a/c box and retain a/c no problem.

With the price range you posted, i'm guessing you are looking at automatic motorsets, you'll need to do something shifter wise, i'd bet an aftermarket B&M or Hurst would let you make it happen after cutting your own gate plate for it.

You'll need a good fuel pump to cooperate with things, and my suggestion would be nothing other than a new supra denso pump, they've been proven, they last, and they are dead silent.

project89

iTrader: (1)

he already has the 4.3 int he car and running that right there drops about 1,200-1,800 that a 2jz would cost to buy that will cover his forged pistons , arp studs and intake and prolly his turbo manifolds

not to mention 2jz parts are exspensive compared to parts for other motors

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Yeah the 1800 will cover his pistons, rods, and maybe some materials to start on the hotside.

Now what about all of the machine work ? Assembly ? Intake manifold, extra trouble tuning ?

Just because its in there doesnt make it a great choice.

What is expensive for the JZ that he would actually need to buy ?

Nothing.

project89

iTrader: (1)

hmm cams, trans adapter, turbo,manifold, if he wants power hes not going to keep a stock 2jz, hell if alls he wanted was stock 2jz power, ported heads good intake/cam and a set of headers is all he needs

and 1800 bucks will cover alot more then just the pistons machine work and hotside parts including the intake manifold

Fallen2603

All the OP would have to do to mount the 4.3L V6 in the engine bay is a set of adapter plates. Atilla used a set of adapter plates, that weren't custom, and they worked great from what I understand.

So, I don't see how the 4.3L V6 is so much harder than a 2JZ, which would need custom mounts.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Wait, you think a 4.3 with ported heads and cam are going to make 300 RWHP ?

If he's doing the swap with EITHER of them he'll need the turbo and manifold, neither are going to be much different for either engine.

Transmission adapter ? Why ? To run his T5 that would blow apart behind a stock JZ, instead of a transmission that will handle it ?

Cams, again sure if he's trying to make 800rwhp.


Custom mounts are now an issue, when the 4.3 is going to require custom everything, but mounts are a giant hurdle ?

Fallen2603

The 2JZ is ~31" from the bellhousing face to the front of the pulleys.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ensions-of-2jz (Post #8)

And, it's about 27" from the bellhousing face to the front of the block.

http://www.ttuned.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=349237 (Post #13)

The Vortec 4300, or 4.3L V6, is ~25.4" from the bellhousing face to the front of the pulleys.

http://paceperformance.com/p-3990-en...imensions.html (Top-Left Picture)

The 2JZ is not shorter than the 4.3L V6.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Reading, I guess its what people must not be doing to think some cobbled together 4.3 is a better idea than a JZ swap.

Fallen2603

You said it was shorter than the V6, man. Unless I took you out of context.

Personally, I think the 2JZ is the better engine of the two.

However, mounting the 4.3L V6 will be easier than mounting the 2JZ. No custom parts will need to be fabricated to get the 4.3L V6 mounted in the bay.

I do believe the 4.3L V6 could hit 300RWHP, but not without some expensive work. In the Hot Rod article, they got the 4.3L V6 to hit 315BHP, or about 265RWHP assuming 15% parasitic drivetrain loss. He'd probably have to get the expensive, better flowing Brodix aluminum heads to make 300RWHP N/A.

Making 400+WHP should be possible with the right set-up.

Do I think a 450RWHP 4.3L V6 will spank a 650RWHP 2JZ? I highly doubt that, but who knows.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I said "whoever said the engine was longer", I was referring to the only one who made a comment on the length, which he stated longer than a V8, which is what i've compared.

Yes mounting it will be easier, of course mounting the JZ isnt going to be hard at all, and the tuning of the 4.3 to get something decent is going to be a lot more trouble, as well as more complicated hotside plumbing, intake manifold sillies, etc.

With the JZ, fab up some mounts, hybrid the harness, get a driveshaft, and go. Realistically looking at $500 total on top of the engine to get it to drive, not counting the intercooler which will be needed for either.

400+ rwhp out of the 4.3 with a turbo, i dont doubt 1 bit, its just going to take an awful lot of work compared to the JZ, not to mention if he ever decides to go further beyond that the JZ will certainly be a better choice.

It just doesnt make sense to act like mounts and an xmem are some giant hurdle with the JZ, when every last piece of the 4.3 will have to be messed with to cobble this setup together to be comparable.

Fallen2603

My apologies, then. I thought you were referring to the V6, not the V8. In that case, the 2JZ is just slightly longer. Barely.

I don't disagree with anything else you've said, man. It's just up to the OP and what his perception of which is easier/better for him to do.

I, personally, don't think mounts and a cross-member are something to balk at, but I'm not the OP.

Like I said before, I'd love to see a 2JZ swapped 3rd-Gen, but I don't think this OP will be the one to do it.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Mounts, psshhh

RHD conversion 240sx with LS6 ?
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...55650514_n.jpg

Mounts are easy peasy, fabricating headers takes a little more effort, but if hes trying to do a turbo 4.3, its going to take plenty more fabricationt than what it would take for some mounts.

Fallen2603

LOL! No, I don't consider mounts to be a big issue. Hell, I'll be having a custom mount made up for the Ecotec going in my Camaro. It's not that complex. If I knew how to weld, it'd be done already. Unfortunately, I don't know how to weld. Maybe the OP doesn't know how to, either.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Indeed, I figure if he's planning on either swap, and he seems to know what both involve, he's either able to do so, or knows he's going to have to get it done.

Speaking of your swap, I was reminded of it the day before yesterday, stomping around the upullit and stumbled across a turbo ecotec complete in a saab.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Meant to add this to the last post.


The solution to not knowing how to weld is here: http://www.wttool.com/index/page/pro..._shopping=true

Summit had them for a great deal too but I couldnt find it now, shame because I remember it being something like the clarke 180 for that same ballpark price.

Fallen2603

Yeah, that Ecotec wouldn't be a bad place to start for a swap. I might have to experiment with an M90 supercharger first, though.

I've considered just getting a welder and teaching myself. I probably should.

kmcn47

whoa whoa whoa before he goes pulling anything out and swapping i wanna see a done 4.3 swap, pics build thread something please, always wanted to see a 4.3 camaro

Fallen2603

And, here it is kmcn47.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...4-3l-swap.html

There's even a link to a video of it running in Post #22.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Wait a second, am I reading this right? Did you just say that you can get a COMPLETE 2JZ engine CHEAPER than a "turbo header" setup for your 4.3? I'll tell you what, buy the 2JZ COMPLETE setup, give it to me, and I will build you ANY turbo header setup that you need that for that 4.3 that will fit flawlessly, whether single turbo or twin turbo, you name it. Deal (I'm very serious)...?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

unless you REALLY want to make 1k, or want to be different, i would probably go the ls turbo route. $400 4.8/5.3 with a $500 borg warner and call it a day.

2jz is a great engine. but if they are $2,000 i would probably do the ls. don't think i would invest in the v6 when you can get an ls for so cheap.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Your list seems to be missing about a million things, and you are comparing it to a complete motorset.

Get everything listed, not just a longblock and a turbo, let alone pick a turbo that will actually feed the engine, and then see how far you've left this $1000 setup you seem to picture, behind.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

a bw 75-80mm turbo is $5-700 and would feed a 5.3 nicely. run the stock truck manifolds flipped. a complete takeout 5.3 can be had for around $400. probably will even have the harness on it. put an LS6 cam in it for $150. could make 700rwhp or more fairly reliably.
a th400 will bolt to an LS and handle 700hp. what would you run behind a 2jz in a thirdgen?

odds/ends will be needed for atubo ls, 2jz, or 4.3 as well as a big fuel system. all that stuff is a wash in this comparison, imo. all 3 setups will be getting a slew of custom brackets/tubing/mounts.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

That truck engine has an intake manifold that wont clear the hood, a set of front accessorys that wont clear the car intake manifold that will clear the hood.

Add in approx 400-800 here

You'll still need materials to connecto those flipped manifolds together and piped into the turbo.

Add another $150

Got to control that boost somehow, need a wastegate, something to control something big like that, figure another $300 easy.

The price you listed will maybe get you a longblock, if you are lucky a harness that wont fit worth a damn, no pcm, no tuning, add in another $400-600 for those two, let alone the harness issues.

Going to need some fuel injectors, the tiny truck ones arent going to do anything here put down another $400 here.

The transmission for any of the setups will all be in the same ballpark, the R154 can do it behind the JZ, as well as there being ways to attach any GM transmission to the JZ readily available.


All of that to some degree will be needed to get this truck motor hybrid into the car and driving, pretty much nothing in that list is needed outside the engine that he's looking at, for $2k a JZ/auto, make some mounts, get a driveshaft and you are in the same spot as anything else turbo for intercooler and coldside.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

or a $300 cowl hood. will 2jz accessories fit a thirdgen?


yes.

how big is the wastegate on a $2,000 2jz? what size turbo/s will be on that stock 2jz?

plenty of locals around here have done this. a real close friend bought a 6.0 with harness for $1k, and modified it for his foxbody. was relatively easy. 4.8's and 5.3's are half as expensive.

i have been getting my injectors for around $250. bosch II's. not sure how big you can go high impedence with those, though.
will a stock 2jz have injectors good for 700+rwhp?

an adapter to put a th400 behind a 2jz can be pricey.


what size turbo will this $2k 2jz engine have on it? how much power can you make with it without spending any other money on it?

1986_T/A

Where the hell do you live that motors are that cheap?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

just typed in a quick search in ebay.... engine with warranty.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-CHEVY-T...ebdf65&vxp=mtr

your local junkyards will normally be cheaper than the ebay stuff, and you wont have to pay shipping. forums normally have all kinds of cheap LS stuff bouncing around too. we have gotten some barely flawed takeout motors from a dealership in the lower part of the state, too. one was an LS2 that had hydrolocked but was fine. the owner of the car got a new engine anyways due to insurance, so that one was pulled out. buddy of mine got it CHEAP.
back to my point though, the 4.8s and 5.3s can be had for a song. the swapover stuff is common for the third gen, and they can make big power with a 75-80mm turbo. 2jz is good too, but i do not see it being cheaper or easier than the ls setup. a stock 2jz with the stock twins is good for 500rwhp tops.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You seem to be building a 700WHP car to start with, and spending $6000 of this guys money that he probably doesnt have.


Apparently you dont understand the concept that he wanted a turbo drivetrain, and that the JZ will accomplish this, for very little more than the initial cost of the engine.


Yes indeed at a 600, 700, 800 WHP level, things will start to even out, if you cobble enough stuff together.

Again, the point you cant seem to grasp, is that for $3000 total he can have a running driving turbo drivetrain that will put down ~300RWHP and have plenty of potential for upgrades down the road, the LSX family to do a turbo drivetrain as he wants is going to cost a great deal more initially, yes initially you start at a high HP level, but that just doesnt work within some peoples budgets.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Oh, please please do click that buy now on that engine and see what shows up.

You may want to ASSume that you are going to get a complete pullout engine minus transmission, in reality you'll get a longblock generally, and maybe the alternator/ps bracket.

You seem to think its easy to just junkyard together a $1500 700rwhp setup, its not, its fantasy, its not going to happen, realistically to piece something like that together it will easily soak up $5000 in the engine alone, then the transmission side of things.

iloveacamaro

here is a link to a video of the car running (4.3)

iloveacamaro

here is another video where you can see the engine

iloveacamaro

the car is slightly less than 200hp, so a 300hp 2jz would be fine by me i'm not racing it. as i said before it is my daily driver, i drive almost an hour each way to work and would love nothing more than to here a turbo and blow off on my journey each day. and honestly i think the 2zj sounds better. if i wanted to go fast i would put an ls in it. besides i like to be different that's what started me with the 4.3 in the first place. there is alot of talk going about the 4.3 swap. the truth is the only thing i changed was the ecm. the car still has the stock accessories, wiring harness, flywheel, clutch, and trans. oh, and motor mounts which only required moving back.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

wtf is your problem?

i didnt say it was easy, i just said i wouldnt do a 2jz. if your shooting for 300rwhp, i still wouldnt do a 2jz. i would do a cam'd ls motor and make 350.
i know exactly what im talking about, i've been 9.40's with an LT1 that also has less than $5k invested in the engine.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

if you want to sound good, not be the fastest for the money, have a blowoff valve, and think a 2jz sounds better than anything else, than that is the setup for you.

kmcn47

i was hoping for the vortec 4.3

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

here is some more on craigslist just near me. im not making this up, they hover around $400-500 for a complete 5.3.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/pts/3135519205.html -$500
http://charlotte.craigslist.org/ptd/3160585903.html -$600
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/pts/3130357415.html -$650 w/warranty
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/pts/3115337773.html -$400
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/pts/3156297211.html -$300 longblock
http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/3186382759.html -$550 low miles