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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
TO ALL ENGINE GURU'S , i'm considering an engine swap to an L31 engine . my question is , will i have a problem bolting my T5 tranny & flywheel to it . i know the T5 faults , i'm a cruiser not a racer . i've had/done recent work to both and would prefer to use them both . i also wonder about the oil pan . being a crate engine (#125302283) would i need to swap oil pans ??? many thanks in advance ...
Last edited by UNCLE TOM; Dec 3, 2012 at 05:17 PM.
As far as I am aware thee are only two 1 pce RMS oil pans.
The Vette one ( L98 or LT1 ) which has a shallower and longer sump on the pan
and require a special pump pickup
and all the others with the shorter, deeper sump like the ZZ4 shown below
thanks for the positive response . i felt all would be fine but it's good to be re-assured . my hopes/plans to have all set to go (out with the old , in with the new) for minimum down time . thanks again ...
well the new engine should be delivered monday . the L31 does not have a great cam so i'm thinking something new . i'm keeping it T.B.I. for mileage , dependability & ease of maint. (i know i'll need to get a truck VORTEC manifold) i plan on swapping my goodies from the 305 to the L31 (full M.S.D. , dist. , coil , wires , hedmann shorties , comp 1.6 roller tip rockers , magnaflow 3" S/S exhaust) all this being said the cam i'm thinking of is chevy performance 1st #14097392 2nd LT4 hot cam #24052586 . keep in mind this is a daily driver & i'm a cruiser not a racer . i do "KICK IT" once in a while & like to play . with all this info. , what would be my best cam choice ??? many thanks in advance ...
i was aware of some (not all) of the info. in your post . thanks , i will be considering "ALL" of it . back to cam choice , anyone have feed back on them ? thanks again...
I know you don't want to hear this.I was cured of not using a T5 when a very good friend of mine Toni Manto who has a multi bay trans shop for 40 yrs took me back to a 55 gallon drum filled with T5 parts he took out from normal driving.That convinced me it was a viable option.
your response pretty much made my cam choice . note , i plan on 1.6 roller tip rockers . would i still be O.K. ? thanks...
It's rated at 1.5.1 rocker,so I don't think a 1.6 is a good idea.The 1.6's are a effective tool in race applications,it's just one more pc of the puzzle to get "alittle more",but the street seat of the pants dyno with the possibility of valve train geometric issues doesn't justify their use on the street for what very little they do add.Apply that money for a good mid range exhaust system.This cam is still available from Summit.Remember OEM's rev limit is 5.000 to 5.500,so don't over rev this.
yes eric it is a new g.m. crate engine . its from jegs #12530283 . its a truck vortec engine , thats why i'm swapping cams .
10-4. I was pricing those through the Jy's earlier, and about crapped my pants when I saw what they wanted for them... you'd think they were solid gold!
well new L31 delivered today . ordered from JEGS , (free shipping) to my front door . crated well , wrapped well , looks very good . shipping driver was great . loaded crate (with engine) straight into my p/u truck bed . will take it to my/nephews home shop in the morning . plan on cam swap & other small stuff before i even think about installation . last step will be paint before i install it . will be painting a lt. gray/alum. color on entire engine . O.K. , to all that say different colors cover dirt & oil leaks . good for you , but i want know about any leaks ASAP . anyway i'm happy right now . cheers ............
well new L31 delivered today . ordered from JEGS , (free shipping) to my front door . crated well , wrapped well , looks very good . shipping driver was great . loaded crate (with engine) straight into my p/u truck bed . will take it to my/nephews home shop in the morning . plan on cam swap & other small stuff before i even think about installation . last step will be paint before i install it . will be painting a lt. gray/alum. color on entire engine . O.K. , to all that say different colors cover dirt & oil leaks . good for you , but i want know about any leaks ASAP . anyway i'm happy right now . cheers ............
Just looked up the engine you got. A long block, looks real nice, and a great price - plus free shipping!!
Should have great torque I'd think, but no mention of exactly what kind of power they make. Good luck! Should be real nice after it's installed.
well another question about the L31 . un-crated un-wrapped it today , looked it over pretty good . thought i knew SBC engines pretty well untill i saw the timing cover . plastic !!! , thats a new one on me . oh well , never too old to learn about new things . (Damn , and i'm OLD) printed on the front of the cover it said "replace assembly upon removal" . any info. about this ? i WILL be changing the cam before i even think about installing engine . away i need any info. i can get on this . i was prepared for a normal cam swap . remove balancer , lwr. pan , remove cover , etc. . now with the different cover i'm not sure . i know someone can enlighten me on my situation . any help would be great . many thanks in advance . cheers ...
PS: after a these years & years of working on used engines this "NEW" engine is a thing of "BEAUTY" to me .
I've never run across a plastic timing chain cover before...almost sounds like it's a one-use only type thing...I wouldn't bother putting that plastic thing back on it anyway.
New metal ones aren't that expensive...just don't do what I did..go with a new cover and not verify TDC to set your timing tab properly. It's a real pain to verify when the engine is in the car!
from what I remember, the earlier metal covers are a bolt on swap, so I would just take the one off your existing motor, throw some spray paint on it and call it a day!
well another question for L31 experts . i have almost all bits & pieces for swap together . plan on swapping cam out tomorrow . removed balancer this afternoon , looks almost like cam cover can be removed with out removing/dropping pan . is this possible on an L31 engine ??? it's not a big deal to me as engine is on my stand . all i have to do is roll it over to remove pan . just wondering if cover CAN be removed with out removing pan . i do have a NEW plastic cover so it's no big deal either way . i am just curious about it . thanks in advance .
Hope you know that all vortec engines were MPI engines. None where made with TBI injection systems. So no vortec truck intake can be used to retain the TBI. Engine was never installed in cars. Only TBI manifold available that I know of is from GMPP p/n 12496821. Look for a cam from a later LT1 engine from a Camaro or Vette. Good street cam and should work without retuning the computer. we used one in a vortec engine that we made into a 383 and worked excellant still on the stock computer.
Hope you know that all vortec engines were MPI engines. None where made with TBI injection systems. So no vortec truck intake can be used to retain the TBI. Engine was never installed in cars. Only TBI manifold available that I know of is from GMPP p/n 12496821. Look for a cam from a later LT1 engine from a Camaro or Vette. Good street cam and should work without retuning the computer. we used one in a vortec engine that we made into a 383 and worked excellant still on the stock computer.
WRONG
Some 96 1-ton G-vans, specifically cut away chassis like school buses had vortec heads and TBI from the factory. Many export trucks built from 96-98 had TBI 350s with Vortec heads and vortec accessory brackets. Some boats also had TBI Vortecs with factory manifolds. I have a crusader TBI Vortec intake in my garage that is cast iron and has 2" bores for the Marine 2" TBI that was on top. It had 61 lb/hr high pressure injectors running at 30 PSI giving more than 90 lbs hour.
I hope the OP did not go with that crappy marine "395" cam, its not worth removing the timing cover on a vortec engine to swap. The Vortec cam is the same as a B-car LT1 and the specs are practically identical to the "395". The 395 has an insignifigant amount more lift, 5* more intake duration, 10* more exhaust, and 2* tighter LSA. However the factory F/Y car LT1 cam is a hotter grind than the 395 cam. The best factory cam for the L31 is actually the LT4 corvette cam.
Well Tom if you have an issues or questions ask me, I just installed and rebuilt a 96 l31 out of a 2500 suburban. My swap will be different than yours because I went from a v6 to a v6. But the motors at the same. I went with a later year lt1 cam as mentioned above, mine is the largest lt1 cam stock in f body's. I also installs the Alex's springs, retainers, and valve seals. The cam can be replaced without removable of the oil pan, need to remove lifters, ect and everything though. The timing chain cover should be fine since its new, the factory doesn't want the plastic cover being reused on a motor that has over xxx amount of miles when it needs a new timing chain. I even reused mine. Used a gasket and some orange high temp rtv. Any issues or comments feel free to message me. After you get it installed though, hold on to your pants. These motors will eat tires, even with a manual and stock exhaust.
Hope you know that all vortec engines were MPI engines. None where made with TBI injection systems. So no vortec truck intake can be used to retain the TBI. Engine was never installed in cars. Only TBI manifold available that I know of is from GMPP p/n 12496821. Look for a cam from a later LT1 engine from a Camaro or Vette. Good street cam and should work without retuning the computer. we used one in a vortec engine that we made into a 383 and worked excellant still on the stock computer.
Double wrong! even a stock L03 needs a tune and they came factory that way!
well engine swap has slowed due to medical problems . engine is still on stand , getting closer to install . was running prime on oil system today , all was good . question was put to me about oil capacity . L31 is a truck engine , oil filter is fatter , a few other small things . anyway is the L31 a 5qt. or 6qt. system ? i think 5qt. but others say 6qts. ??? what ever it is i really need to know before i fire her up the first time . thanks to all engine GURU'S .
well engine swap has slowed due to medical problems . engine is still on stand , getting closer to install . was running prime on oil system today , all was good . question was put to me about oil capacity . L31 is a truck engine , oil filter is fatter , a few other small things . anyway is the L31 a 5qt. or 6qt. system ? i think 5qt. but others say 6qts. ??? what ever it is i really need to know before i fire her up the first time . thanks to all engine GURU'S .
the one quart difference won't hurt anything on first startup. start it on five, run for a until your gauge shows pressure, turn it off, and check level. add if necessary.
just a short/quick update . nothing has changed as far as engine swap . it's just on the back burner for a few months . I was found to have prostate cancer months back (thanks to AGENT ORANGE) . halfway through treatments on it now (radiation therapy) . treatment by Keesler A.F.B. (the best there is) , prognosis is good , my attitude is positive . delay has given me a chance to research/polish my plan of attack on the work ahead . I have a daily commute each work day (for treatment) of 96 miles . doing it in my 91 R/S L03 , after 210k miles she is still running great . average 24+ m.p.g. on my commute each day . almost hate to swap it out , (but I will) . anyway plans have not/will not change . I will not let cancer kick my a$$ , I will kick it's a$$ . project is just slowed down a bit . cheers !!!
I may be getting old but I refuse to grow up !!!
well i'm still kicking , seem's like I may have kicked cancer's a$$ . I sure hope so . finally getting back to engine swap . i'm thinking about 2 weeks down time till I fire up new engine . sad to say (for me) but I am calling in outside help . glad I have family & friends to help me . several things I want to do while engine is out . really clean-up & paint parts of eng. bay . anyway i'm starting to pull old eng. tomorrow . i think i have all bases covered but i'm sure i will be back with with more questions . CHEERS !!!!
well old engine was removed yesterday . no major problems , now for several days of clean-up . I do have the room & press. washer so it shouldn't be too bad a job . going to take tranny to Clutch & Powertrain of Mobile for a good look over & repair as needed . I want this to be the "last time I pull it" . I plan on clean , paint , replace everything I can/should while engine is out . I figure about 2 weeks before I fire new eng. up . I hope to have all really looking/working good when I am finished . car WILL STILL be a daily driver . thanks to all the other "old pharts" for the encouragement . I do feel that I have kicked cancers a$$ . any/all advice while eng. is out will be appreciated . good luck to all .
well 2 weeks turned into 4+ months . holidays , deaths in family , cancer follow up's & the list goes on . I spent a lot time being **** over little stuff . new engine installed , I was **** over everything . spent lot's of money on new everything . double & triple ckd. everything I could think of . today was the moment of truth . went to fire it up , did not turn over twice and roared too life . what a sweet sound to my ears . set timing , purrs like a STRONG kitten . lots of little stuff to button up before I can put her back on the road . I'm anxious , sounds REALLY STRONG . one small coolant leak on sensor near thermostat . to say I'M HAPPY is an understatement . thanks to all for your advice/help . (GARY) , I think i'll be happy with the cam you suggested . THANKS AGAIN to all .
I am sorry to bring this back from the dead....but where is the results.....happy? I am sorry for your health problems, I understand what you have been through, I was in Iraq, Afghanistan... I can not work anymore Due to the severity of my PTSD. and the night mares cold sweats
I am sorry to bring this back from the dead....but where is the results.....happy?
results , no dyno tests just driven . seat of pants results , OMG hold on . power shifts , easy to break tires loose . very happy with results , good luck .
Last edited by five7kid; Mar 31, 2014 at 06:18 PM.
well 2 weeks turned into 4+ months . holidays , deaths in family , cancer follow up's & the list goes on . I spent a lot time being **** over little stuff . new engine installed , I was **** over everything . spent lot's of money on new everything . double & triple ckd. everything I could think of . today was the moment of truth . went to fire it up , did not turn over twice and roared too life . what a sweet sound to my ears . set timing , purrs like a STRONG kitten . lots of little stuff to button up before I can put her back on the road . I'm anxious , sounds REALLY STRONG . one small coolant leak on sensor near thermostat . to say I'M HAPPY is an understatement . thanks to all for your advice/help . (GARY) , I think i'll be happy with the cam you suggested . THANKS AGAIN to all .
results , no dyno tests just driven . seat of pants results , OMG hold on . power shifts , easy to break tires loose . very happy with results , good luck .[/quote]
I prefer the seat of the pants results myself. I have long been planning my V8 swap and already had very similar plans for the motor. I hope this means I will be very happy when done.
Unfortunately everything that could go wrong for me has. (The vortec in my truck lost all oil pressure on the highway so I am having to swap in the rebuilt vortec motor I had for the Bird right now. I just bought a good running 94 350 motor for $100 to rebuild using vortec heads and roller cam for the Bird now.) I hope to get back to it very soon.
Part number 14097395 no spring issues was a OEM cam that is a good cruiser cam with really good mid range torque.
Fantastic thread! Got to bring it back to life, this is very helpful for guys in my shoes. I've been doing a lot of digging and got hopeful when I ran across this. I just want to be very clear.. Gary sir, Uncle Tom, guys, I've got an l31 with stock cam and stock Vortec 906 heads going in my 90 Formula 350. I swapped everything over to the l31 that was on my l98 except the obvious, a SD's intake, Hooker shorty's and a few bolt on's. I know I'm not going to be happy with this build without a cam upgrade.. The blocks still on the stand, I have purchased everything needed, everything. Just slowly putting it all together. I am BROKE, lol and while I have the opportunity I'm thinking now I would like to have an easy "drop in" oem cam. Now the one you mentioned (1gary) I will NOT have to pull the heads, buy springs, etc, etc.. correct? What about my 1990 factory chip? I am not going to be going to the track, this is not a daily driver. She is going to be my weekend cruiser, just want it streetable. So anyone "chiming" in please don't bother with suggesting lt4, zz4 hot cams etc. Like I said I'm BROKE and done with this build, I'm ready to drive! Would I be better off just keeping my stock l31 cam if I can't afford springs etc? I'm hoping for the best here!! I'm happy you made a full recovery Uncle Tom, I know it's been almost 3 years and hope you're still doing well! Thanks all! The pic is where I'm at as of Today.. The heads are in great shape with super low miles!
well an up-date ??? o.k. , swap went pretty good , I'm very happy with cam choice . now is the time to swap cams if you choose to do so . remove intake , remove pan , remove balancer , remove timing cover , back-off all valves , remove push rods (keep in order to re-install) , remove lifters (also keep in order) , replace cam . a very good time to replace plastic timing cover with crank seal & motor mounts . (don't ask me how I know) use lock-tite & RTV , lock-tite on cam bolts , RTV at corners where timing cover , pan & block mate . be sure to install timing cover first when you re-assemble . I'm happy , good luck with your project ....
Fantastic thread! Got to bring it back to life, this is very helpful for guys in my shoes. I've been doing a lot of digging and got hopeful when I ran across this. I just want to be very clear.. Gary sir, Uncle Tom, guys, I've got an l31 with stock cam and stock Vortec 906 heads going in my 90 Formula 350. I swapped everything over to the l31 that was on my l98 except the obvious, a SD's intake, Hooker shorty's and a few bolt on's. I know I'm not going to be happy with this build without a cam upgrade.. The blocks still on the stand, I have purchased everything needed, everything. Just slowly putting it all together. I am BROKE, lol and while I have the opportunity I'm thinking now I would like to have an easy "drop in" oem cam. Now the one you mentioned (1gary) I will NOT have to pull the heads, buy springs, etc, etc.. correct? What about my 1990 factory chip? I am not going to be going to the track, this is not a daily driver. She is going to be my weekend cruiser, just want it streetable. So anyone "chiming" in please don't bother with suggesting lt4, zz4 hot cams etc. Like I said I'm BROKE and done with this build, I'm ready to drive! Would I be better off just keeping my stock l31 cam if I can't afford springs etc? I'm hoping for the best here!! I'm happy you made a full recovery Uncle Tom, I know it's been almost 3 years and hope you're still doing well! Thanks all! The pic is where I'm at as of Today.. The heads are in great shape with super low miles!
The stock l31 cam is a small upgrade from the factory l98 cam. It is a small step down from a factory LT1 Firebird or Camaro cam. It is the same cam that was used in the caprice with a LT1. You should be reasonably happy with it. Others have ran LT1 cams with stock computer programming.
The stock l31 cam is a small upgrade from the factory l98 cam. It is a small step down from a factory LT1 Firebird or Camaro cam. It is the same cam that was used in the caprice with a LT1. You should be reasonably happy with it. Others have ran LT1 cams with stock computer programming.
I've ordered 1garys suggested Ramjet 395. I know I'll be real happy with that! Also going to order a fuel pressure regulator.. Has BBK fixed there's yet? The Holly ones sweet just a bit pricey. Defiantly wanna do cam bearings, Kings of course.. (And yes I have the tools, lol) any suggestions on part numbers though? Thanks all.
The stock l31 cam is a small upgrade from the factory l98 cam. It is a small step down from a factory LT1 Firebird or Camaro cam. It is the same cam that was used in the caprice with a LT1. You should be reasonably happy with it. Others have ran LT1 cams with stock computer programming.
The L31 cam is a downgrade as far as I am concerned. It has less duration and a tighter LSA with less lift. It falls on its face at anything beyond 4,000 rpm.
I've ordered 1garys suggested Ramjet 395. I know I'll be real happy with that! Also going to order a fuel pressure regulator.. Has BBK fixed there's yet? The Holly ones sweet just a bit pricey. Defiantly wanna do cam bearings, Kings of course.. (And yes I have the tools, lol) any suggestions on part numbers though? Thanks all.
That cam is better than the factory L31 cam, but not by much. I would go with something along the lines of the Hotcam or the Lunati Barebones equivalent. I paid less that $100 for the bare bones cam on clearance straight from Lunati and an Alex spring set is ~ $200.
well just a quick update . after little exhaust leaks , switching to poly motor mounts & other small items I'm very with my engine swap . performance is better than I expected . I also must say again how much I like the G.M. crate engine I bought from JEGS . a little over 2K delivered to my door . a friend pulled his eng. from a 1990 C10 to rebuild , he has spent more than I with parts & machine work and not done yet . also all of my parts are new and have a G.M. warranty . he wishes he had gone the same route . oh well , my Camaro is very happy as am I . Cheers ..........
Uncle Tom you willing to help a fellow person who is doing the same swap? I'm finally back in the game with a thirdgen after a long time. My very first car was a 91 rs and after many cars back to the beginning again. I just bought a 91 rs t5 convertible with 33k on it. I already have the crate motor and many of the parts. My question is which water pump did you use? And any insight of anything else I may need?
I have the engine
360 knock sensor and module
Better fuel pump
Custom chip being burned
Bigger throttle body with 350 injectors
Vortec gmpp manifold
Hooker headers all they way to hooker catback
I did the suspension and beefed the rear a little and put 3.73 gears in it
stock fuel pump seems to work O.K. . mine was less than a year old . I'm not a racer , just wanted a few more pony's under the pedal . good luck with your project ...
