lanceflame44

Hi
I was considering an LT5 for my trans am, not right now but a lil bit in the future, as is i have a 305 non high output tbi motor, my options are to either do the ultimate tbi mods (intake, exhaust, etc) or try to swap a 305 tpi motor or 350 tpi motor in it along with a t56. I could do that or I could get an lt5 and 6 speed transmission of ebay for $10 000. i wont be turboing the motor or anything, i just wanted to know which would be worth doing, i read that the lt5 is a different engine and might not fit, but to my understanding shouldnt the lt1/lsx mounts on hawks fit? or would i have to fabricate/get someone to fabricate a bunch of parts. and is the 6 speed attached to the lt5 the same as the t56 or is it different. thanks in advance.
Jeremiah

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The LT5 is not a good swap candidate.

Period.

All aspects of that motor render it unsuitable, except one; which is, it makes more power than a 305. EVERY other characteristic works against it.

• COMPLETELY DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE in every way - nothing interchanges with anything else
• $$$$$$$$$$$Expensive$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (probably the most expensive possible stock GM motor)
• Rare (only a few hundred ever made)
• Parts availability is non-existent
• MASSIVE - I seem to recall from back when there were more of them still floating around from people who had wrapped Vettes around telephone poles than there are today (which of course is the only way to get one), that the strut towers had to be hacked just to get it in the bay
• Extreme complexity
• The 6-speed that came with it would have been the ZF, which basically doesn't fit in this chassis

All in all, not a good idea.

For a tenth the cost and a twentieth the effort, you can put in a LS1 or other motor from that series such as LQ4 or LQ9, and get more power; and it FITS. Plus, there's LOTS and LOTS of em in junkyards these days.

Incidentally, if your motor is stock, you DON'T have TBI in that car since it wasn't available that year.

lanceflame44

i was under the impression that thirdgen cars came stock with crossfire, tbi or tpi motors, mine has a circular air cleaner and a snorkel, the lid has a hole for the power bulge, which would make it a tbi? no? and on a scale of one to no, u cant do it, how hard is it to convert my car to tpi? i am running my car to school so i dont want the mpg to be that bad.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

You have a carburetor.

lanceflame44

oo, can i still make it a tpi? or should i go look for a 305 or 350 tpi? how hard is it to do the swap? like approximately how long would it take?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sure, you can downgrade expensively.

Yes. That is the only kind.

How hard is brain surgery? How long does it take?

I guess that depends on if you're a brain surgeon, and what all is wrong with the brain to begin with, and how many other things besides just the brain you have to end up touching, eh? This is not too different from that.

If you have to ask "how hard is it", and don't know the difference between a carb and TBI, it's probably not a good idea for you. We all start out in this hobby somewhere, of course; but a relatively complex swap like that isn't a good choice of a first project. ABOVE ALL, not for a daily driver that you need to be reliable, and can't tolerate being out of service for a long period while you track down parts, debug installation quirks, etc. Especially since any TPI setup you'll find is over 20 yrs old, has no telling how many miles on it, needs no telling how much work to really make "right", and needs LOTS of other supporting parts, like the in-tank fuel pump and the rest of that system.

All around, swapping to TPI isn't a wise plan.

Swapping to a LSx will net you AT LEAST 100 more HP and 50% OR MORE higher gas mileage than TPI, for what will probably end up being a not far different drive-in to drive-out expense. You can pick up a low-miles 5.3 for around $750, computer and all, for example. If you're just determined to swap something, I'd recommend forgetting about TPI and doing one of those other motors instead.

lanceflame44

hold up, lets analyze the situation, my motor is a lq4 (vin code h) which produces around 150hp and 240 ftlb of torque. a 305 tpi produces 195hp and 295 ftlb of torque, why is a tpi a downgrade? how could i improve the engine on my car? i have shorty headers and 2.5" mufflers which i am going to get installed at the end of the month, what else could i do? i have already done a tune up with platinum spark plugs.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

VIN code H in the cars is LG4, not LQ4.

One is a weenie carbed 305 with 150ish HP. The other is a quite powerful 350 HP fuel-injected MODERN motor with something close to 370 CID.

LQ4 = the 6.0 that comes in the larger and/or higher-equipped trucks; 2500s, Escalades, Yukons, etc. LQ9 is a higher compression version of it. Both are what we call "LSx" motors out here in hobbyist land because the LS1 was the first motor of that series.

lanceflame44

sorry, lg4 is what i ment, i was ready the tech specs on the thirdgen home page

novaderrik

here's my advice, coming from someone that's been playing with cars for over a quarter of a century: learn how to maintain what you currently have... learn what does what and how changing one thing affects the other things... start with simply upgrades that don't require a lot of work or a lot of money and don't leave the car dead for weeks at a time: start your upgrades at the rear of the car and work your way towards the front... exhaust first, then headers, then an intake manifold and maybe a cam swap since you're in there... then build a real motor for it... in other words, don't start off trying how to kill your car and your finances by going straight for the glory of an overpriced engine swap that you won't have the time, money, or knowledge to complete before you get burned out on the whole thing and just go buy a new Kia to use as a driver...

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I would also add, about why TPI is a downgrade:

TPI is an intake and fuel control system. It bolts DIRECTLY UP ON TOP OF any small block Chevy made from 1955 to 2000; 262.5, 265, 267, 283, 302, 305, 327, 350, or 400, or any hybrid of the above such as a "301" or "334" or "383". It is NOT an "engine". (unlike the LT5, which is a unique and non-interchangeable complete ENGINE, that must be installed intact and complete; it is NOT something that "bolts on" to any existing other engine, like TPI does)

The thing that made a TPI 305 put out more HP than a LG4, was NOT "TPI"; it was THE ENGINE that the TPI intake was installed onto. Not all ENGINES are the same, even if they have the same displacement. It had a better exhaust system than your LG4, higher compression, and a better cam. If you take THAT ENGINE and stick your existing intake and carb on it, it will make at least the same AND PROBABLY MORE power depending on your tuning abilities.

As a case in point, the ZZ4 is "rated" at 345 HP with headers and a Holley carb. Keeping in mind that this is "gross" HP and not the "net" HP method by which OE vehicle engines are "rated" by, that number is outrageously high to compare to an OE vehicle. But a safe "rating" for what that engine does as installed in a chassis, i.e. such that it can be directly compared to a vehicle "rating", would be around 275 - 280 HP in the real world, based on track times, dyno readings, etc.

The IDENTICAL SAME ENGINE, part # for part # (except for the cam), was produced as the L98 TPI 350 in the Vette. That engine isn't quite the same as the L98 version in our cars, but close. In the Vette, with TPI, that very same engine was "rated" at 240 HP. IOW, take the carb and its intake off and replace it with TPI, and BAM! 30 HP just went away.

Derrik's saying the same thing I am. By virtue of the things you don't know, you are clearly a "beginner" in this hobby. Which is cool, I'm not knocking you or making fun of you or anything like that, and will be glad to help you any way I can; only, being realistic about where to set your sights. It takes years of experience, and exposure to lots of situations and circumstances, before you can reliably modify a car with a consistently predictable outcome; and the problem is magnified when it's your daily driver. If you have to go to work or school or any similar mandatory attendance you can't miss, then when you aren't familiar with what can go wrong, even something as simple as changing spark plugs will leave you dead in the water sometimes. Just read the forums. Every day people post on here about "my car won't start" or whatever; we have to pry out of them bit by bit what the history is behind that, as if, they expect us to just automatically know that this didn't just randomly happen out of the clear blue while driving happily down the road; and then it turns into a guessing game about what they knocked loose, touched that they shouldn't have and forgot to put back, assembled wrong, used the wrong part, etc. etc. etc.

Learn how your car works, what all the parts are, what makes your car different (or not) from other similar cars, why one is better than the other and most importantly what it is better for, what's important to YOU about a car, how much parts cost, how many tools you're willing to buy, and on and on. Gain some experience before doing something that will get you in over your head. That kinda takes all the fun out of it, when you hafta tell the girls you know (or the guys for that matter) all about this bad-2-the-bone "monster" you have, while you're riding the bus and it's just being an expensive garage decoration as you save up for some part you unexpectedly turned out to need but (a) can't find, and (b) can't afford even if you did, and (c) wouldn't need at all except that you made a bad decision. Start at a manageable level and work your way up.

"My good judgment is the result of my experience. Unfortunately, all my experience was the result of my bad judgment."

thomas1976

Man...you are patient! and it could not be explained any better!

lanceflame44

Right now i am taking the bus. I was driving my car to the shop to get it saftied, it kinda passed (my grandfather knew the mechanic). on the way back my car lost power for a sec (went from approx 2k rpm to 500rpm) then shut off. i thougt i ran outa gas, so i called my dad and he gave me a gallon of gas. i kept driving but it did it again, i popped the hood open and the engine was radiating more heat than normal, i checked the pipe that goes from the engine to the radiator, and it was super hot. so i checked the pipe that goes from the radiator back to the engine (the one on the bottom) it was cold, and the radiator wasnt even warm. i think my car is overheating, my temp gauge read regular temps tho...

lanceflame44

alright thanks. i was also wondering about attaching a computer to my car for tuning, could i benifit from that? maybe i could make my car run a little lean for daily driving and then tune for performance when im playing follow the leader or when im driving with friends. one thing i was reading that is different about my engine and the other one is the compression ratio, i read that to make it more powerful i can get heads or flat top pistons to make the compression ratio higher, BUT they said i cant get both because then the compression ratio would be too high. i am saving up for a little car to commute to school, i have to use this car until then, so after i get the little car i can start work on this one.

abray1

I have an lt5 car and gm made one lt5 third gen (purple and white)like no other engine.

lanceflame44

Ok, so i took my car to a friend and he said the engine has carb problems and the water may or may not be broken. he pretty much told me that my car has soo many problems he was surprised that i was still running it. i am looking at a eldbrock (or however that is spelt) 600 cfm carb, how much are they worth?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

"Worth" is in the eye of the buyer and the seller; no one else.

I won't take one of those if you try to GIVE it to me; so to me, they are "worth" LESS THAN ZERO.

OTOH, Edelbrock CHARGES for new ones, and SOMEBODY is paying. So there must also be other opinions out there.

That said, and the matter of "worth" aside, it will cost you about 3 times as much to change over to one of those, as it will to FIX WHAT YOU'VE GOT NOW. Especially since if the car has "soo many problems", you'll STILL have to fix all of those as well, with your now-depleted bank account from having been distracted by the shiny things. Changing the carb won't fix "broken water", whatever that may be referring to, for example.

Learn to take care of, and find problems with and REPAIR, your car, BEFORE trying to modify it. Better to learn this lesson from reading on the Internet, than learning it THE HARD WAY, the way the rest of us had to before Algore invented the Interwebz and are now trying to pass on our dearly-bought knowledge.

ws6transam

Before bolting any 'alternate' engine in your car, or before bolting in any Edelbrock carbuerator, consider the fact that GM engineers, even in 1984, were out to make the most driveable car they could when they manufactured it.

If you are having problems, start by learning how to do a complete tuneup and make what you already have work at it's best. It will cost you less, and benefit you more as you gain knowledge of what makes a car work. Once you've figured it out, you will then (and not before) be ready to tackle the modification hobby. Any other shortcut, will be expensive and produce very little performance reward.
These are the go-fast parts I recommend first:
1) new plug wires, new coil, cap, rotor
2) new vacuum hoses, carbuerator fuel filter, and a quadrajet E4ME rebuild kit.
3) New radiator hoses, new 180 degree thermostat, new heater core hoses.
4) New brake pads, new brake fluid, new rubber brake lines for the front calipers.
5) New lower control ball joints, tie rod ends, center link, and idler arm.
7) New heater core, new stereo, Fresh A/C service & R134A conversion
8) Transmission service and fluid change
9) Rear differential fluid change
10) Disc Brake upgrades, 16-inch or 17 inch wheels
11) panhard rod, lower control arm swaps

Then you'll be ready to tackle some engine mods.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Once all that other stuff in the middle is deleted, what's left is a VERY GOOD plan.

Do more "saving" than "start to work" for the time being, except for stuff like ws6 listed; about 99% of which is nothing more than what in industrial situations we like to call "deferred maintenance". Which is nothing but a fancy expression for "somebody put off taking care of it until it turned into a total POS and started breaking down all the time and then they sold it REAL CHEEEEEEEEP because that's all it was worth and now all that stuff they neglected is MY PROBLEM because I'm the one who bought it".

lanceflame44

my carb has problems, i found a person selling a carb along with an engine block for $300, i was going to see if he would just give me the carb only for like $50. would putting this carb on it be that difficult? if it would be, how much approx is it to rebuild mine? ill see if i can do that maintainance, like i only got the car for $900 so obviously there is things wrong with it. soo far i have 15" rims and tires, i like those rims so i dont want to upgrade, i changed the sparkplugs with platinum ones (my friend works at canadian tire so i got them for almost free) i changed the battery, i changed the distributor cap and rotor and the wired, i cleaned the contacts on the thing that sends out the sparks through the distributor. but thats pretty much all, i delt with most of the body rust, i have to fix some rust on the undercaraige but nothing major. i a little bit to spend on it tho.

lanceflame44

alright, i looked at all those parts on rock auto, i will try to get and install them, i dont need ball joints, i have them but the mechanic said i dont need new ones. which section would the vacuum lines be in? http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?ck[ID]=0&ck[idlist]=0&ck[viewcurrency]=CAD&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=3j5jbolb1u4fqoh30ggncaa3l2

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Without seeing whatever carb, it's impossible to know how much trouble it would be to swap out; let alone, even if it was PERFECT and just jumped up on there and hooked itself all up on your command and started right back up all on its own, whether it would be any "better" than what you have now.

If the carb in question is EXACTLY LIKE the one you have, then it's not too tough to swap out.

If it's ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL, don't do it.

Best plan though, is going to be, to fix what you've got.

lanceflame44

i ditched the idea of getting the new carb, my friend says that he explained my problem to the mechanic that hew knows and it might be a faulty ignition control module, i have the "H" vin code but he said that there is different modules for the USA engines and the Canada engines, where is this module and how do i tell the difference?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

USA engine = computer-controlled

Canada engine = often not computer-controlled

There's only 2 modules. One with more pins and one with less.

If your carb looks like this, it's computer-controlled, and it needs the module with more pins. 7 if memory serves.



If it's lacking the electronic things at the top pass side and the driver's side corner, it's not CC, and needs the module with fewer pins. 5 I think

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

At first I wanted to drop my head in shame at another LT5 thread but now I am glad relieved to actually see the OP learning the error of his ways and actually taking action to do proper maintenance on his vehicle rather then getting mad and throwing a tantrum like I see occur in most topics like this. Good job OP. Get it running good and driving even better and then you can start looking at small performance mods.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and I forgot: the module is inside the distributor, on the plate underneath the rotor.

lanceflame44

How does one change the thread topic? i want my 305 to make around 200-250ish horsepower. i already have headers, i just need a little guidance on how to install them. i just pulled out the ICM, mine has 2 pins on each side, rock auto has them for like $15, im going to put a few things in the shopping cart, then take a screen and show you guys to make sure all is good. also, my car was starting to rust on the body so i sanded that down, bondo-ed it, and sanded the existing paint a little, then sprayed some tremclad on, what is the easiest way to strip the paint down to metal and then start over? and how much approx could i buy a rear bumper and gfx for? there was a dent from the previous owner that i couldnt exactly fix. I am also looking at doing some weight reduction, how do i remove the AIR system? thanks in advance

lanceflame44

also one of the pulleys (i will take a picture when i get home) wobbles a little, it is the bottom one, my friend says it needs a new bearing or something like that

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

advanced edit your original post to change thread topic.

lanceflame44

I also have been reading on doing propane injection, like it runs propane through where the air goes in, its for diesels but i dont see why it wouldnt work on gas cars, the kit is like $300, i wanted to do this after i have a running car though. here is a link of the kit http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Propane-injec...73c6c8&vxp=mtr

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

what do you expect to gain from propane?

lanceflame44

maybe a little more mpg?

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

You think the potential MPG increase will offset your new propane bill?

lanceflame44

I dont know, i did a little more reading, apperently propane also cleans up the engine. Im not saying ill get it now, i am just wondering if this turbo diesel kit works on non-turbo gas engines..

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Don't get ahead of yourself. Forget about all that "experimental" stuff. Learn to get what you have now, working right. Find out what tools you need. Learn what happens when you do .... something. Get acquainted with the parts of your car as it now sits. Don't jump into something you don't understand and get in over your head and be forced to sell a gutted-out failed project at a loss, while you ride the bus.

No propane won't improve your gas mileage, since it's just another fuel. It still takes the same amount of energy to push your car around, and your engine won't be any more efficient at extracting it. The sum of gasoline plus propane will equal the present amount of gasoline, except that you will have put yourself through a whole bunch of pointless grief and your wallet will be that much lighter.

No propane doesn't "clean up" the engine; what it DOES do, as a substitute for gasoline, is to not require all the additives and whatnot that are what forms deposits. As long as you're running any gasoline, the gunk from it will still be there.

This is what we mean about learning how things work... there's a reason (several actually) you don't see just dozens and hundreds of people on here doing that sort of thing, ESPECIALLY NOT to our daily drivers, and it isn't because we've never thought of it or heard about it.

lanceflame44

so i got the ICM in this week, the car seems to run fine, i still have to give it a field test. the belts are screeching though, like the tension on all of them seems fine but they squeak when you rev it a bit. and the bottom pully that all 3 of the belts connect to is wobbling a little bit, would that be hard to fix?

lanceflame44

anyone have any info on why the bottom pulley could be wobbling when the engine is running? and does anyone know why my belts are screeching? should i get new belts?

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Belt screeching is either old belts, loose belts, or both.

As for the bottom pulley wobbling, check to make sure it has all the bolts and that they are snug. Also, are you sure it's the pulley and not the balancer?

lanceflame44

ill ask my friend and take a picture today. and ill see for the bolts

Richboll

Wow, I'm subscribed just to watch the OP go through this learning curve. Instead of reading up on what it could be, you need to read up on what it is. Get that right and then start worrying about getting it better. When you get it right, that may be enough for you! Good luck!

Richboll

As far as the wobble on the bottom pulley, you really should pull the pulley off and check for cracks. I've had a bottom pulley break the center out just before it went flying and took out my radiator. Also check your harmonic balancer bolt. This will also give you the opportunity to check or replace your belts and learn how to properly tighten them. This is called "gaining experience".

midias

Get a manual for your car, leave it on the back of the toilet and read every time you sit down.

MetalObsession

HI sofaking
saw the thread about the guys 84 TA305 in which you have been discussing at great length.
I have a similar car. 1984 z28 5.o ho. was wondering if you know of a shortcut to disable the high idle? Whenver i fire up the old girl the rpm's climb and climb and climb. It's so annoying. The only cure for it is to wait till its warm and kick the pedal to drop it or unscrew the whole air cleaner to access the mechanism that controls it and override it. I know its supposed to do this but maybe theres a way to tame it.
I saw the pic u posted of the carb where u said its either cc or non comp controlled. Mines the same as the one pictured.
Thx for the help

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

That sounds like the choke, and the kickdown is working fine if you press the throttle to bring the RPM's down. Is it warm or cold out when it runs to high idle?

lanceflame44

hey guys, sorry for the absense, i have been juggling work and school and my friend has been helping a little with the car, we have changed the ICM and looked at a few other things but he just told me to give up on the car. right now my options are either to go to the GM dealer near my house and get the car checked but that would cost alot and then i also have to pay for repairs. or i could just pull the motor and take it for a re-build. and my last option is to go the LSX way, I have found an engine crane for $100 and a engine holder for $50, there is a l33 i could get for around $1000 and i should have the money by december for all of this. from what i have read the l33 would need a new oil pan and a few other conversion parts that i would have to get from hawks. right now, car-wise i am fine, so this can be my project, i want it to be running by this summer. what should i do?

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Have yo looked into any of the items we identified that needed to be looked at?

1. Replace the belts
2. Check to mkae sure that bottom pully has all of it's bolts. if not, take another one out, take it to Fastenal or whatever hardware store is near you or a junk yard and get some more.
3. You said the car seemed to be running fine, other than the belts screeching...so get that fixed and see if it's driveable.

What else is wrong with the car? If it runs fine after you fix the belts then sweet, nothing more needs done for now and you can start looking into doing the TBI mods if you wish. But, you need to get things running "right" before you start looking into modding stuff.

lanceflame44

no, i havent, the belts are screeching a little but the car keeps shutting off. like say i drive it for around 10ish minutes and then the car loses power (rpms drop to idle) then it shuts off.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

ok...starting from scratch.

1. Replace spark plugs, Plug wires, Cap and rotor.

2. Set timing to factory specs, you may need to get a book or if you search long enough on the site here you might find it in a post somewhere.

3. Replace those belts and or tighten up your serpentine set up. Loosen up your alternator a bit and "PULL" hard on it to tighten the belt it connects too, then tighten down. YOu may need a second set of hands. do the same on the other side with the AC compressor. Get that bolt replaced or find out why your crank pully is wobbling first though.

4. Check your fuel pressure. TBi should be around 19psi or so. Pump might be bad if it runs for a "little then turns off".

5. Replace your fuel filter.

6. If the pressure is good, check your injectors. You'll need an ohm-meter for this. They might be bad by not allowing enough fuel into the throttle body.

lanceflame44

1. i have new spark-plugs, new wires, new cap and new rotor.
2. i will start searching on how to do that
3. i will see if i can get that done this weekend
4. mine is a 4bbl carb apperently, and how would I check the fuel pressure?
5. I have a new fuel filter, i will check online or on my haynes manual to see how to get that in
6. alright
Thanks alot, i will start on this asap, i dont want to let the car sit during the winter, it could make things worse

lanceflame44

I dont know if this is realated to the problem but i took it to a shop my friend works at about a month ago and it lost power once but didnt stall and then lost power and stalled about 10 mins into the ride. I brought it home today and surprisingly it did not stall. a month ago the temperatures were pretty warm, and this morning when i brought it home it was about 0 degrees celcius