Looking specifically for what some of you guys have done to fit the large 6.5" (front) deep aftermarket pans. Im looking for the same clearance but want to have to raise the engine minimally. My purpose if for street. Im not against aftermarket k members.

From what I have been able to find so far is maybe doing a crossmember mod much like ed quay does. Dropping it down a getting a inch or so to get more clearance.

The UMI k member has some good street credit around here. I wouldnt be against it. But I dont see much point if we can just mod the OEM k member. But then again if it came modded with the center dipped down for more pan clearance it would be perfect. And I would assume them modding it would add to cost as well.

 

You don't need a deep front section of the pan. An OEM sized pan will easily fit with the factory k-member in place.

A pan like this fits with no issues and even works with an extra 1/4" stroke.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/20449/10002/-1

I run an aftermarket k-member but use front and rear motor plates to hold my engine in place which also allowed me to drop the engine lower. I flipped the center link over to gain a little extra clearance (not recommended for street use). Pan clearance with a BBC becomes a problem with the center link before it becomes a problem with the k-member.

If I drop the center link and lift the engine slightly, I can get the pan off but it isn't easy.

 

Yeah i was curious about the deep sump pan. Its 6.5 inch depth is the same depth in the front for the pan of the engine im going to swap. Im going to have to raise the engine some (Header clearance for the wide heads). If im lucky LS swap headers hopefully will fit with a flange change. 1 and 3/4 primaries is a bit small, but im willing to live with it.

 

I used the Moroso 21009 pan, it has a 5" drop on the front and is one of their best pans you sure don't need a 6.5"

 

Technically I do need 6.5". 6.5" is the shortest a cleveland pan gets in the front. The big chevy deep pan has the same depth. I tried to covertly get some pics of clearance for that depth, to avoid the "oh my god ford spazzims" people tend to have.

Disclaimer: Before anyones head explodes, the 351c was designed by a chevy engineer.


those pics are awesome. the only real issue is my IROC didnt come with an engine or transmission, so perspective on how factory stuff fit is kind of not there.

 

With an aftermarket K member you will have lots of room, problem is going to be steering, even with my rack I had to remove it when I took my pan off this summer

 

Stupid follow up question. Since your motor is mounted lower in the chassis than it otherwise would be, does the differential have to be mounted lower as well?

 

No. Since I run tall tires and the ride height is still the same my pinion yoke sits very high in the chassis . I don't run a transmission crossmember. The trans is bolted to the engine and the engine is supported by front and rear motor plates. I have the back of the transmission as high as possible. The headers hitting the underside of the floor limits how high I can raise it and I would like to bring the back of the transmission up a couple of more inches but it just isn't possible.

Theoretically, you want the transmission yoke pointed directly at the diff yoke. Since my diff yoke is higher than the transmission yoke, I adjust the pinion angle to be on the same plane as the crankshaft centerline. Having the trans and diff yoke at the same height would be nice but it's never possible. That's why the pinion angle is adjusted to be on the same plane as the crankshaft centerline to have the driveline properly phased.

As low as my engine sits, the engine/transmission still points up at the front of the car so the pinion at the diff points up at the same angle. This makes the u-joints very happy.

 

That makes perfect sense. Thank you Stephen.

 

Hey 572 rat how do you like the moly race craft Kmember? I just stuck one in my bird that I have a 521BBF in and so far it fits like a glove. I have the Moly one and Im running the old style UMI front Aarms but going with a modified spohn coil over kit. I had the UMI Aarms on the stock Kmember But the Stock Kmember was a very tight fit with the large motor, always wanted a tubular one. Just wondering how yours is holding up? Street miles or strip? How many miles etc. Mines going to mostly be street but won't see a lot of miles per year of like 500ish.

 

nice work. I stuffed a 521cuin Big Block Ford in my 87 formula and no one has complained or said anything lol. They are all in awe of the huge size and they love the car… its the only one in existence that I know of. I say get'er done! I run a ford motorsports 460 swap oil pan for a 460 in a fox body and it cleared the Kmember and stock power steering. I had to position the motor where I wanted it and built everything around it to fit so every mount was custom. But it will fit and mine has the front sump where the oil pump is at the front of the block but the rear sump pan is deeper in the back. The ford motorsport 460 oil swap oil pan is a kit that comes with a rear pickup, oil pan, gasket and dipstick and is used to convert front sump 460 (all of them basically) to rear sump to fit the fox body. I would look into that type of pan for the cleavland.

 

I have about 2500 miles on the car since I put in the Moly road race K-member, this is all street miles since this is a street car. I have had zero problems with it since I installed it, it would have been nearly impossible to stick this motor and header combination in this car with a stock k-member

 

Ok, great to hear! Mine isn't the road race version tho.

 

Sounds like a nice little fox body CBB. I bleed ford blue but Ford has never made a mustang that has impressed me. The new Generation is close. When I started driving third gen camaro's were all over the place. I wanted one when I started driving, I was over ruled and got a taurus instead.

these guys are right about the fox style pans for the 351c the front sump interference with the cross link for the steering. The canton fox pan, the front sump is pretty much a 5x5 inch square. Im measuring about 3 inches between the crosslink and the k member. I dont know how much clearance in that area a tubular k member would give, to let the front sump sit between the cross link and the k tube.

I didnt want to have to jump to a new k member per say right off the bat.

The lowest profile ( not a custom pan) is 6.5 inches. Kevco Racing has 2 pans one is a fox pan and one is labeled a cobra swap pan(7 or 8 qt truck pan). The one has tapered sides. kind of like the pan follow the angle the oil pump sits at. So from the front it kind of looks like a V-ish shape. That might be good enough for tie rod clearance if I can get the motor low enough.

 

Well the 521BBF was pushed back towards the firewall about 3" and the motor mounts as well… I would say the front is as close as a SBC/BBC toward the rad. My issue with the stock Kmember was getting the position right with the center link in relation to the oil pan during full wheel chock.

Pushing the motor back too far gave me more room from the rear sump to the Kmember but put the smaller front sump (where the oil pump is) into the center link. I would have had to raise the motor up 1.5 - 2" to clear it. Moving the motor too far forward put the rear oil pan sump in the Kmember and the water pump pulley into the rad. Sweet spot with the FRPP pan was basically touching the rear Kmember, Front sump just cleared the centerlink going from full wheel chock to wheel chock. I actually had to dent the front sump very slightly so the center link wouldn't rub the oil pan and cause a hole. Now the center link basically moves in the space between the rear and front sumps.

I was looking at the UMI Kmember in an install video with a SBC in a firebird and saw that the cross pipes (2 of them) were awfully close to the exhaust cross pipe that goes below the back of the oil pan. The race craft moly Kmember has ALOT more room than the UMI does at this area. I have a lot of space now and very happy with the room . I would have loved this Kmember during the initial swap as it gives me more room to move things around but really Im limited by the center link and the front sump of the pan. Otherwise I would have pushed the motor back more to make room for the radiator and big fan setups.

I can get some pics if needed.

 

Being able to fit over the crossmember would be nice. That frpp pan must have be small dimensionally in the front sump.

Is there a k member that brings the steering to the crossmember? I had read the rack and pinions set up is not the best for street use. Shortens the turning radius.

Fabricating some sort of new crosslink for the stock steering would be nice. I just have no clue what they are made out of.

 

Well since it's a rear sump conversion the front sump is just enough to clear the oil pump, it's not a small sump... but it's enough. I'll try to get some picks so you can see.

Only way to move steering to the crossmember is with rack and pinon.

Stock centerlink looks like solid steel. I'm sure you could fab a replacement but I would be worried about integrity and u can't really change the swing of the arm and it's direction. Just so we're clear... the centerlink clears my oil pan through 99% of its travel. Only the driver side mounting nut hit the pan. I grinded on the nut alittle and ddented the corner of the pan slightly and all is good.

 

Here are some of the pics you requested. The original Kmember fit just as well. Ive only gained clearance around the rear sump (mainly right at the back end of the Kmember on the firewall side) Mine basically rubbed and I needed to grind down the stock Kmember so it stopped rubbing. The race craft member is very nice, I hope the moly non road race version is strong enough for the street. I feel that the UMI one would offer less room since it has dual tubes on the bottom. THe race craft Kmember bottom tube does hang pretty low though compared to stock.

Here are the pics with the Racecraft Moly Kmember showing the clearance with the Kmember and FRPP 460 engine swap into a fox body mustang oil pan. Its a rear sump pan conversion but the front sump is surrounding the oil pump.








This is the finished product with OEM Kmember as of this past summer. Now its getting a 3pt custom STB, front and rear coil overs, hydroboost, billet converter, moly Kmember, custom solid motor mounts, black ceramic coating the headers etc. Runs like a top with the new FAST EZ EFI 2.0… very impressed.

 

How tall is that pan in between the sumps? from block to the bottom of the valley between the sumps. With my smaller bore spacing the length of the valley between the sumps will not be as long as yours. But the height of yours looks around 7 inches from block to bottom of the valley.

That tall center sections lets me believe just a rear sump truck style pan would work. I doubt the C fox pan would fit over the crosslink and the k member even with an aftermarket k member.

 

http://www.kevkoracing.com/images/F609_full.jpg

Looks like this pan might be my best bet. Tapered sides for extra clearance from tie rod ends. Also should let me get as close to the firewall as i can until I have to get a small diameter brake booster. the only caveat will be mounting upward in the engine compartment, and the trans going up with it.

the only real trick is going to be to not shoot and axle out of the 10 bolt rear. Need that abs sensor and ring for speedo signal.

 

I use front and rear motor plates to position my engine in the car. I'd love to shove the engine back another 6" but it isn't the firewall that causes the issue. The front frame rails taper inward behind the engine and under the body. It doesn't leave enough room for the headers to fit. With the transmission staying in the stock location, there's enough room for a BBC engine but if you move the engine and trans back for a better weight ratio, you need to refabricate a bunch of other stuff for clearance.

 

Thanks for the heads up. The cleveland is almost the same deck height as an LS. But the heads are gigantic compared to any small block push rod motor. I would have done my heads by now, but I stuck a piece of metal in my eye. Just got that paid off now im focused on the heads again.

 

I will try to get some measurements tmrw… but I think the pan is 8 or 9" deep at the rear sump. Prob with the 460 is that the oil pump is at the front of the block so there has to be a sump there to cover the oil pump and the sump can only be as shallow as the pump itself. Not sure on your motor but the rear pan like mine even in a Canton or Melling etc are all the same design overall.

You could prob get a dry sump pan and you would have NO issues whats so ever as those pans are really low profile.

 

My only issue would be that pan doesn't have the notch in the middle. That is what allows me to get the center link to pivot back and forth in that empty area.

With the clearance I have now with the aftermarket pan I could have dropped the motor more but it was a good fit as is. Tranny tunnel is a problem… had to cut and modify mine some to fit the C6 bell housing which is bulky compared to the 700r4 or 2004R.

Solve the issue with the booster… Im going hydroboost in about 2 weeks hopefully. Im sick of that big ugly break booster about 1/8" away from my valve cover. Hydroboost will run my less than $400 and then maybe $60 in fitting and lines. I'm keeping my stock 4 wheel master cylinder and all.. not even gona disconnect the brake lines or bleed them, just a bolt on swap minus the lines.

 

I agree, you could always run a front motor plate and limiters in the back for alittle more room.