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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
Hello all! I have officially started dropping my V8 into my car, I have had the car and engine for over 3 years now, and the planets have aligned just right to let me start! I have used TGO to plan and lay out my build back before I even had the car, so I figured I would document my progress here for all to see!
Old engine came out very easily, only snags were the exhaust on the passengers side bolts had to be broken to be removed, and I broke the radiator getting the old hose off, was the original since 1991.
Every nut, bolt and wire has been labeled and stored for future use.
Couple tips from what I ran into:
Since there is no room to remove the torque arm bolts from the transmission with them still bolted to the car, I took the nuts off of them, removed the torque arm from the axle then removed the motor mount center bolt, put tension on the engine hoist then removed the transmission mount, the tail shaft will drop just a enough to remove the bolts and the torque arm will drop to the ground, and then the engine will come out in one swoop as well.
Do make sure the wire harness is completely disconnected from the car before attempting to yank it out, I spent a good 30 min to and hour when it was getting dark trying to figure out why it was not coming out, I figured out it was a small metal clip holding a portion to the body towards the front passenger side
For the front Springs, since I currently do not have a compressor, I used a jack to slowly lower the control arm to the ground after everything was unbolted, then used a pry bar to pry the spring off the arm, comes right out without too much hassle, I will be getting a compressor to install new springs though.
This is my current front suspension parts I have selected, feel free to give advice or suggestions
Control Arms: New Poly bushings, new ball joints.
Sway Arms: Using stock 30mm sway arms (for now, might upgrade later), replace bushings with new Poly bushing, end links are new from a few years ago making the car safe to drive, I believe they are poly, with the plan to go full poly, but I don't 100% remember, I will be re using them.
Front springs will be replaced with new OEM v8 springs.
Struts are only a few years old, stock Monroe replacements, will replace with Koni yellows in the future after the engine is in, running, and drivable.
I don't see it mentioned in your list, but you'll need to change the passenger's front brake line. The V6 line interferes with where the V8 motor mounts bolt to the crossmember. Easiest way to deal with the the front end is to strip the crossmember all the way down, and build it back up with the V8 brake line, V8 mounts, rebuilt control arms, and so on as you bolt it all back together.
It's mind numbing, the sheer number of parts that are different between a V6 and the same car with a V8. Things that don't make a lick of sense, like the exhaust hangers being different on the V6 for no good reason.
I don't see it mentioned in your list, but you'll need to change the passenger's front brake line. The V6 line interferes with where the V8 motor mounts bolt to the crossmember. Easiest way to deal with the the front end is to strip the crossmember all the way down, and build it back up with the V8 brake line, V8 mounts, rebuilt control arms, and so on as you bolt it all back together.
It's mind numbing, the sheer number of parts that are different between a V6 and the same car with a V8. Things that don't make a lick of sense, like the exhaust hangers being different on the V6 for no good reason.
That's why I'm replacing almost everything hah, I knew about the brake line, but shy of ordering a entire kit, I cant seem to find the one replacement for the v8, so unless you know of one, I'll just gently bend it out of the way...
Now I did not know about the exhaust hangers, are you talking about the little hooks on the body towards the back of the car? because taking mine off, the only thing holding it to the car was the manifolds, torque arm bracket at the transmission, and the 2 hooks at the rear behind the axle (granted one side was held on by twine......)
I dont think that cam is going to get you to 400hp let alone 450. Maybe closer to 330-350
Can you explain your reason for thinking so? When I built the engine I was told by someone who builds sbc for a living, that cam with vortec heads will produce 400ish hp.
Why would your friend the engine builder approve of a flat tappet camshaft with little to no lift, or even duration for that matter, with a targeted RPM range of only 2000-RPM to 4500-RPM only to be used with a Stealth Ram intake in which can potentially raise your targeted RPM band to well over above 6000-RPM? Where is your compression, where in the RPM band are you planning on shifting?
Can you explain your reason for thinking so? When I built the engine I was told by someone who builds sbc for a living, that cam with vortec heads will produce 400ish hp.
I was in college for automotive, I was learning how to build it, He did recommend I go roller, but it was a budget build for a college project, I pretty much said I wanted 400ish hp using the tpi system on pump gas, and that's what he told me to use, if it's not 400ish hp, then I can always upgrade it later.
I was in college for automotive, I was learning how to build it, He did recommend I go roller, but it was a budget build for a college project, I pretty much said I wanted 400ish hp using the tpi system on pump gas, and that's what he told me to use, if it's not 400ish hp, then I can always upgrade it later.
Like i said probably closer to 330 but even that seems like the perfect senario
If I were to upgrade the cam now, while the engine is still on a stand, what would you recommend? Keep in mind I still have the stock pressed in rocker studs and 1:5 rockers since it was a budget build, so it can't be too crazy.
If I were to upgrade the cam now, while the engine is still on a stand, what would you recommend? Keep in mind I still have the stock pressed in rocker studs and 1:5 rockers since it was a budget build, so it can't be too crazy.
The problem with a flat tappet camshaft is that you need to sacrifice a few area's in order to make the power you're looking to make. Your current cam is not going to make 400'ish horsepower, no way no how. The very fact that you were originally targeting that horsepower goal running that cam, with a Tuned Port Injection system no less, you might not have even seen 300'ish horsepower for that matter. I can show you my higher than normal revving Tuned Port Injection SBC due to the increased duration I went with (flat tappet as well), but I don't want to take away from your build thread. Pressed in studs w/factory sized rockers, you need to focus your attention towards duration and overlap, and how much you're willing to live with. The Stealth Ram likes to breath, so let it...
The problem with a flat tappet camshaft is that you need to sacrifice a few area's in order to make the power you're looking to make. Your current cam is not going to make 400'ish horsepower, no way no how. The very fact that you were originally targeting that horsepower goal running that cam, with a Tuned Port Injection system no less, you might not have even seen 300'ish horsepower for that matter. I can show you my higher than normal revving Tuned Port Injection SBC due to the increased duration I went with (flat tappet as well), but I don't want to take away from your build thread. Pressed in studs w/factory sized rockers, you need to focus your attention towards duration and overlap, and how much you're willing to live with. The Stealth Ram likes to breath, so let it...
- Rob
I'll just say I'm glad this is brought up now while the engine is still out hah, like I asked midias, I'm open to suggestions for the cam, while I'm more educated since the engine build, I still don't know how each cam spec affects the engine, especially with the myriad combinations out there, which is why I went with what the engine builder said, I know the purpose of overlap/lift/duration, but how the different specs play, well idk lol
Due to the K-member mounting spots for the Control Arms were a bit compressed from years under pressure, I had to hammer in the rebuilt control arms, took some work but they went in, and fit very nice, I can already tell the poly bushings will make a big difference!
Installing the new springs were a PITA, recommend having a friend help out with a jack, huge pry bar, hammer, and spring compressor, I wasn't able to reuse the rubber inserts that rest on the top of the springs, they were so smashed, so I just left them out, hopefully wont cause any problems
Bending the brake like was a lot easier than expected, and it looks very good imo, installing the new mounts were easy, like most people recommend here, have the control arms and springs out, I can't even see it being possible to get them without.
So as of now, the car is ready for the engine, time to get the engine ready for the car, after the discussions above about my current cam, and talking with midias, I have decided I'm going to change the cam, and while I have a good portion of the engine torn down changing it, I'll remove the heads and have screw in rocker studs installed, so I can run rollers later and possibly port the exhaust but that is depending on cost, this will set me back a bit financially, but it needs to be done for the power I want.
I tore down the engine, sent in a Cam request to comp, and with their recommendation, I replaced the cam with Comp's XE268AH-10 (Part# 2-242-12) and replaced the springs with the matching springs, 224/230 Duration, .477/.480 lift with stock rockers, 110LSA, 1800-5800 Basic RPM range.
With the changes, according to Comp's Camquest6 (depending on how accurate) the engine is estimated to produce 430hp @5500 and 450lbs @4500
As of tonight I have finished putting the engine back together, and married it to the transmission. Next step is to pressure wash the engine bay, paint the bay, and slide the engine in!
I will say I'm glad I did this because I discovered a error when I first built the engine, the former springs had dampers, and while the springs installed no problem, I didn't realize the dampers didn't fit over the guide, (they are machined down for lift, not narrowed for springs, my inexperience at the time). While the new springs had a inner damper also, I removed it as so many people have done, and they fit perfectly.
Looks like you are running the 1.5" primary flowtek / Summit house brand headers. Make sure you build a custom Y pipe I double the one the comes with it would support even 300HP. That design is **** I swapped it out on a few F bodies to a better design and bigger primary headers and they gained tons of power.
look for a cam with a LSA of at least 113 or higher if you want it to run. otherwise it may not even idle and will be very hard for someone to even tune a chip for!
That was my concern also when Comp suggested the cam, so I replied to their email asking about that, and they said I won't have a problem since it has low overlap.
I'm glad I'm able to say, the engine is in! and its looking great!
Now I ran into a few snags, and I want to ask for some insight before I start throwing money at parts, I'm working on the serpentine drive, gathering the pieces, I got the driver side bracket w/PS pump and pulley from the local yard, off a 93 Caprice (still trying to hunt down passenger side), I got a Water pump pulley off a 90's truck and a crank pulley off a s10 with the 4.3(found on 4.3/5.0/5.7 trucks), the Water Pump and Crank line up good, but the PS is about 1/2in too far forward, I tried shimming the PS pump to line them up, to no avail, but as I looked closely I noticed if a belt was coming from the crank pulley to the PS, it would hit the bracket, are the crank/WP pulleys off the trucks slightly shorter than the ones off the L98/LT1s? my next step is to buy a crank pulley that's for my car if it came with the 5.7, but I don't want to be stuck with another pulley if they end up being the same, Iv already had to replace the Water pump itself since it wouldn't work with the bracket (had a mounting point for V-bet that was occupying bracket territory)
Thanks
TLDR: Truck Crank Pulley won't line up with the PS pump from a 93 Caprice (same setup as the F-Bodies L98s) Wrong Pulley? Something else amiss?
Edit: Figured it out doing intensive part number searches and calling different manufacturers, I do have the incorrect pulleys, will be ordering correct ones soon.
I decided it was more cost effective to go to a local speed shop and have a custom made exhaust system made instead of buying pre-made stuff, so I have moved that stage to stage 6, Exhaust and Startup, stage 5 is final assembly.
Similar to the Front suspension, I replaced all bushings in the rear with Poly, springs and shocks are only 2 years old, so re-using them, I also replaced the fuel pump with a much better unit, https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-gca758-2
Little tip from my experience, make sure the Torque Arm is installed before putting in the springs, took me a bit of time problem solving to figure out why my rear ride height was 2-3 inches lower and making god awful noising when bounced, figured out my axle was rotating when the car was placed on the wheels, reason I didn't install the Torque arm during assembly was because I ordered the wrong bushing (Pass Side arm, mine is Driver side), got the correct one today.
Tomorrow I'll be finishing up the entire underside of the car, installing Torque Arm, drive line, transmission cooler lines, starter, and starting the long task or rewiring the harness. I'm on the final stretch! after this, all that's left is to plumb the Fuel, P/S and Coolant, wire it up and re-install auxiliary systems and install the SFC and Wonder Bar.
It's been a while I've posted, but I've been doing a lot of progress, lots of late nights haha
The Car is completely put back together, everything is plumbed up, the wire harness has been completely rerouted, and modified for the V8.
All that's left is to tow it to a local exhaust shop to have the exhaust put on and SFC, get a chip for the computer (any recommendations where?) and then I can start it, goal is the end of the month.
You should tune it yourself for best results. Datalogging And the use of tunerpro rt and I’m assuming your using the 1227730 ecm. You can modify the v6 memcal or get a aujp or anjf memcal as a starter tune.you can get the apu1 at moates.net and a g1 adapter and a few sst eeproms. There is also dynamic efi ebl p4 https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...d-density.html
Thanks for the info yes it is the 7730, I did some reading, but I want to clarify something before I attempt any of it, what I read was you can jump 2 pins on the memcal to make the cylinder select 8cyl, but will need to get V8 calibration on the prom, so in theory, I can take my memcal, plug it into a g2 adapter(which I read does jump the pins) with one of the stock tunes you mentioned above, and start the engine/break it in then move on to adjust everything to make it run at peak? Or do I short the pins, disconnect the spark adv for the computer, and manually adjust timing during the break in period with the v6 calibration, and move on to V8 once it's running? I've never dabbled into tuning for cars so this is all new to me.
I wouldn’t try running it with the v6 calibration. I’m sure it would run real rich and might even give you a code 51. The gp1 is good for swapping out the eeprom or but long term after it’s dialed in you might want to remove the zif and use the dip.
Last edited by Tuned Performance; 04-11-2018 at 05:40 PM.
This is after the initial break in, idling in closed loop, it doesn't idle very well in open loop, but that should be resolved with tuning, thank you to Tuned Performance for the starter chip.
Exhaust is Custom 3 inch with flowmaster Y (connects together back at the rear of the transmission) and Flowmaster muffler.
01-24-2018, 01:34 AM
