some people have already told me some good advice

but i was just wondiering if anyone had other good performance/?? tips

thanks

 

4 bolt block
vortec heads
nodular iron crank
forged pistons

the rest i dont know lol..
I got a '98 vortec longblock resently..
255 hp @4600 rpm
330 ft-lb @ 2800 rpm

but these figures will change due to the
manifold/carb/cam change

your best bet is to go to a salvage yard and pull one out..
(hope this answers your question)

 

Why do you want to do a Vortec? So you'll be limited to a few, expensive intake manifolds? Or, so you can spend more money on decent valve springs, special rockers, machining for screw-in studs, things like that?

Building a sound shortblock is about the same regardless of what heads you put on. If you want GOOD heads, made to aftermarket quality standards, go with World, Edelbrock, Holley, AFR, Trick Flow - any of those have better stuff than Vortec factory quality castings. They all have screw-in studs standard, good valve springs, use readily available intake manifolds and rockers, are made for performance.

Why do you want to do a Vortec?

 

becuz i am 16 and i dont wanna spend 2 grand on a motor and then right when i drop the motor in a will have to rebuild my tranny cuz it will blow


i saw the price of the vortec heads and i thought they were a good deal


it sounds like you know more about heads than i do......so what can i get for around 300 a piece (complete) per???

cuz the way i have it figured i can build this motor for about a grand or so


im not lookin to get into the 12's......i just wanna get into the mid 13's and b able to have fun with my car.........


do you still think i need different heads?

 

BTT

 

The Vortec heads, regardless of their flow numbers, are NOT performance heads. They're replacement truck heads.

That means they lack any of even the most basic prep for what most of us would consider high performance use. They have pull-out studs, weenie valve springs, big heavy poor-flowing valves, casting flash all over the place, etc. etc. etc. In order to clean all that up and make them equal to a performance head from the aftermarket such as World, Dart, Edelbrock, Holley, TF and the rest, you have to spend so much money on them that you will have more in them by the time they become a truly high-performance head than you would have in somply going out and buying a set of hi-perf heads in the first place.

That said, the secret to using them effectively is to work within their limitations as much as possible, and avoid doing any more work to them than necessary. As long as you stick within those boundaries you can do OK.

The first big limitation is the valve springs that come on them. They are raw unadulterated garbage. Throw them in the garbage and put something real on there, such as Comp 981 or the Crane or Lunati or any other of the major cam mfrs' entry-level product. You're stuck with the stock 1.25" diameter unless you spend money on machine work, which is what you should avoid doing.

The next limit is the clearance between the top of the valve guide and the retainer. When the total lift at the valve exceeds this clearance, the retainer slams into the top of the guide boss, and instant total destruction of the valve train is the result. Either the studs will pull out, or the push rods will bend, or the rockers will break, or the cam lobes will wipe out, or maybe all of the above at the same time. The lift limit is about .480" on the NIB product.

The combination that seems to do the best with those heads is flat-top pistons, a Comp XE268H cam, a Performer RPM manifold, headers of course, and a 750 Holley carb. People regularly get close to 400 HP out of that combo. At that low of a power level, I wouldn't get all excited about expensive short block parts like forged pistons or crank, or expensive rods; a cast crank with stock rods and hypereutectic pistons will be entirely adequate as long as you use good rod bolts like ARP or some such.

You're not going to get much of a motor for a $2000 budget if you have to both rebuild the short block and buy new heads, I can guarantee you that. That figure is unrealistic for something that's going to go together, stay together, not burn oil, run good, etc.

 

for $2000 you should be able to get something reliable and better than stock, right? say, 350HP? well, if you don't have machine work needed, even with machine work I got my shortblock assembled for only $65

$1200 for heads
$300 for rebuild kit
$80 for summit cam kit
$120 for intake
$100 for misc.

$1800 total?

RB can you tell why 2K on a engine wont produce decent numbers? guess maybe it depends on what you think decent is, and i what i think or others think.

if the budget is just for the motor, you should do allright, but if it the whole car, you have to factor free flowing exhaust and some other small things in.

{edit} Trickflow aluminum heads from summit can be had for like $900, Sportsman II iron heads for like $850 and that would give even a little more money, maybe for some roller rockers, new headbolts and all that good stuff

 

Matt said he was looking to spend about $300/pc. for heads. I don't care if these are replacement truck heads, or factory castings, they are a good choice to use in his situation. They are not the best heads, but they are the best FACTORY TRUCK, PRODUCTION HEADS, or whatever you choose to call them, available for a sbc. Man I wish you guys would get off how these heads suck so bad.
Matt,
I used these heads for my engine. I did do a lot of work to them, but that is b/c I wanted them to do a lot more than what they were intended. When I do this again, I am getting some AFR's b/c they can handle a lot more out of the box. Yes, Vortec's require a specific intake, self aligning rockers. But if the cam is left under .480 lift, everything else is fine. You don't need screw in studs, or springs with outrageous pressure to run .480 lift. If you would like pictures of the Votecs, and the work I did, e-mail me.
I don't mean to come off rude, and I'm sure I did, so I opologize, but it is rather obvious that five7kid, and RB83L69 have not used these heads, and have no intention to. Thats fine, but if they haven't used them, I see no reason to knock them.

 

The Vortecs work great on a street motor especially for the money.
but require a bit of prep before you bolt them on.
Screw in studs are not required. Not for the spring pressure
required for any streetable hyd cam. They will not pull out.
We have confirmed this on the dyno. They do require self aligning rockers but thats not a big deal. They do not requre 1.6 rockers
either. The stock stamped steel self-aligning rocker is all you need for up to 425 hp and 6000 rpm. The guide bosses do need to be shortened for clearance on all cams with more than .450" lift. You may get lucky and get a set that are ok to .480" but all the ones I've prepped
needed machining. The stock springs are junk and should be
changed but new performance stock diameter springs are not expensive and the stock retainer, seals and keepers are fine.
A wild cam is not nessesssary for a 13 sec vortec street motor.
any thing around .450" lift will do. Anything over .500" lift is overkill. A cam of the size of the XE268H-10 is all you'll ever need
to go 12's. If your using a stock converter you may like one a little milder, like the 262 or simular. The Performer RPM is "the intake"
to bolt onto a street vortec motor and the price is now down to a reasonable range. This intake, is enough to run 11's on a Vortec
and has excellent drivability too. The Super Vic is a racing intake
and won't work well on a moderate street setup, will get poor gas mileage so leave it for the racecars. It won't fit under the stock hood anyways. The ports are not rough inside like some would have you believe. They are about as clean as factory castings get. If you don't know how to port a head then don't touch 'em. They are fine as is for what your doing. The beauty of the Vortec heads is they make big time torque and streetable horsepower Right NOW! with superior throttle response and
mileage. They flat out work. If you shop around and do just the mods you need to get them ready for the street you'll have a
kick *** street performer that will run even or better than more expensive stuff. Forget the screw in stud and guideplates.
Forget roller rockers, don't need 'em. You'll want to set your compression ratio as close to 10.0:1 as possible for best results.
If you have dished pistons or ones that are .045" down in the hole than buy a thin .015" shim heads gasket. Send me an email if you would like a list of specific part#'s you can get that work with these heads. (springs, cams, etc). I would avoid buying a set out of a wreckers as there are lots around for bargain prices that are new assembles or new bare castings. Some good speed shops even sell them all prepped for the street for very resonable prices. A lot of people try to knock them like those that push the dart s/r's mostly because the vortecs run better for less.
Dyno and track proven.....

 

I picked up my World heads from Competition Products for right at $600/pr (taking out the upgrades I opted for). They were priced the same as the S/R Torquers for a 350. They do benefit from a little bowl work (I did the work myself), but will hang with Vortecs out of the box.

Nobody I've seen has reported pulling a Vortec stud on the dyno. That's not the issue. Dyno pulls are hard on most everything, but they don't prove long-term reliability. If you keep the lift down, you'll be fine with press-in studs. But, higher lift is one fine way to get better power. If you chose the package right from the beginning, you avoid more expense down the road.

People have used and run Vortecs, sure. RB summed up their limitations nicely. If you're willing to live with those limitations, then go for it. If you want room to grow, consider something else.

 

I have use the Vortec heads and have Done a best time Of 12.7@108 I have looked at the money that I have spent as apposed to buying a set of afr's of the new E-tec heads and I would have spent nearly the same amount of money and have the added benifit of the aluminum castings.

I guess it is how you look at it in the long term Vortec's do have a limitation and a lot of un seen cost such as: sprngs, Rocker arms, studs, Valve covers, intake manifolds Ect. Where as with aftermarket you know what you are getting right when you pull it out of the box.

If I had it to do all over again I'd go aftermarket ,less work, more potential, IMO...

Later

 

Lots of good stuff in this post.

When it comes down to it yes, they are factory heads that require a non standard intake, and have no provisions for EGR.
But they are about the best heads to ever come off the production line for a Gen1 sbc.

in street form with a 268 cam, they will provide enough power to get into the 12's provided you can get it to the road.

With some bowl work, vavle jobs, and pocket work, jsut like other heads, they show improvents.. enough to yeild power for 11 second times with a well setup car. and More cam.

What else could you want, if your willing to work around the limitations of new style intakeand No egr.

A streetable, high 11 sec smallblock with minor work to factory heads ain't a bad deal...

 

I have completely stock vortec heads-springs and everything....shift at 6000RPM and have absolutely no complaints


they are a damn good good head for the money and mid 12s are attainable with traction.

 

Hey f-bird 88.... as much as these guys are raggin' the vortec heads I'm with you on them...

I'm looking to build a street motor with 350 horse or so... I'd like to pull mid to low 13s and keep the car very streetable... I'm thinking of rebuilding a 87 shortblock I have sitting in my garage that I picked up for $75 with 10 to 1 flat tops (probably forged), possibly going 30 over with the block. With the cam I am looking to have a very smooth idle and would like to build lots of torque all the way to 5000 or 5500. The forged pistons are not necessary, but I would like to have the option of nitrous at some point..

I am thinking the vortec heads with an edelbrock performer rpm intake and an edelbrock 600 will fit the bill quite well. I am also probably going to order an Accell HEI distributor.

I then plan on putting a TransGo reprogram kit on my 50k mile rebuild 700R4 (stock). I was thinking heavy duty instead of street strip to keep from breaking parts in the tranny. I also plan on a mild stall around 2000-2200 rpm. (and a big tranny cooler of course)

My rearend is currently a 3.23.. I am not sure how strong it is, however I will probably put in a disc rear end with the 3.27 gears or the 3.42 if I can find them.

Does this sound like a good combination to you?

If not or if so, please offer me your suggestions for cams, and any details you can think of for the motor. (Cam specs, etc.)

Sean
rage@advnet.net
90 Formula - Stock 305TBI with 3" Flowmaster Force II exhaust

 

im running vortec heads with the following cam
GM ZZ cam, .480/.480 I/E Lift, 235/235 duration @.50 and 114 degree lobe center

The heads are completely stock, do you think i can run this setup up to 6000rpm? Its been up there a few times but ive kinda been keepin it down for now worried of the limits of these heads.

I know i make power to 6000 so thats not a concern.

 

hey VORTECFCAR
do you know what the part # would b for that cam?
cuz i was looking through www.summitracing.com and they had like 14 pages of eXtreme energy cams



and guys just to remind you....im only 16.....if i have a 11 second street car i will probably KILL myself!!...........and besides all my money would be going towards the engine and not on other things.....im looking to be able to run or beat LT1's and maybe hang with LS1's.....so i only want like mid 13's......but you guys have really given me some good ideas for the future on what i might do to my car.....so THANKS!!:hail: :hail: :hail:
lol

 

Sean : Check my specs in the Reader's Rides section,

The Wolverine (crane) blue racer (WG-1159) I used has a smooth idle
once warmed up and lots of streetable power to 5500/6000.
I recommend replacing the vortec springs with performance
springs even for this cam and machining down the valve guides for clearance.
If you have relatively short tires, the 3.23's will be fine.
I'd use a 750 cfm carb for best power.
Unless you are using a high stall converter (2800/3000rpm)
I would select a cam with less then 224deg@ .050 intake duration.

http://www.blueracer.cranecams.com/chevysb.htm

 

Most stock heads have pressed in studs and they won't let go until you go over the .550 lift mark. I wouldn't go that far,but some have. I like the vortec heads. They are cheap and very good. plus you can get the heads put em on and run em with the lo3 peanut cam with no prob's and pull decent horses. Then when you want to upgrade, you have room for improvement over the stock lo3 heads. You guys have to think out of the box. Not everyone can put together a street terror from the get go. We have to build up to that point. Others just want something fun and the vortec heads will do that. That's just my.02. I don't want to step on anyones toes, but we all don't have alot of money to dump into our fbodies.

 

i was thinkin about buying the 350 vortech crate motor for my 87 iroc 305 and keeping the stock tpi skoggin dicky sells the vortech intake manifold base . has anybody used this setup


LM1Engine Name: 350
Horsepower: 249 HP @ 5,000 RPM RPM
Torque: 304 Ft/Lbs @ 3,500 RPM
Compression Ratio: 8.50 to 1
Block: 4 – Bolt, 2 Piece Rear Seal, 4.000” Bore
Crankshaft: Cast Nodular 3.480” Stroke
Heads: Cast Iron, 72cc
Valves: 1.940” / 1.600”
Camshaft lift: 0.390” / 0.410” Hydraulic
Duration @ 0.050”: 195° / 202°
Intake: Not Included
cost: 1289.95 + 399.99 for manifold

 

has anyone seen the latest hot rod? did you see how they got 450+hp and 500 ft.lbs. out of a GM crate 383 with vortec heads? and under 6000 rpm. (YES I KNOW ITS A ROLLER MOTOR)if they can flow enough air to support a 383, they have to be sufficient on a 350. Maybe i misread something in the article. Yes I agree, you have to get different springs, and maching the boss's down, and buy a special intake, but the intake selection for those heads are not that bad now, performer, performer RPM, victor jr.and an air gap(I THINK) an RPM intake is probably gonna be your best bet for a street application anyways. and the vortec heads as far as i know,are cast version's of the aluminum vette heads, i can find the article if nessicary. IMO, if you are on a budget, and you are going to buy heads and an intake anyways, the vortec system is not a bad choice. it was said that not everyone can build a street terror because of money limitations. my bird is still in my garage because I want a 406 with a 6speed in it when i should have just put the damn 350 in it with a 700R4 and enjoyed drving the car, but I keep waiting and saving. anywys,these heads are about port velocity, everything i have read, they dont respond well to big valves, and extensive porting(thats just what I have read) I have seen many many engine build up's with that combo and the 268xtreme cam have 400hp, and in my opinon thats pretty damn respectable for a street engine. an honest 400hp on the street is a huge difference than the idiots that put a RV cam in there stock headed 350 with a 750 holley and say they have 400hp(there are alot of them around here)ok, i am done rambling, this is just my .02 FLAME ON lil j

 

Lol, I'm another firm believer in the vortec heads. For the money and considering they are undoubtably the best iron head GM has made to date. The vortec heads actually made more power under 3000rpm than the fastburns in most combinations! It might use the smaller 1.94/1.5 valves but they flow great because of the actual design of the intake runners.
The idea that they're truck heads is bull. Why don't you go start bashing every guy that's dropped a 454 into their thirdgen and tell them that they're still a "truck motor" and that the "car motor" is a 396 or a small block, HAHAHA. Get real. Vortec heads make crazy power with a budget. They've got the spark plug moved closer to the exhaust valve and it's got THE best GM combustion chamber design. Just because they have the crap springs and studs doesn't mean these heads are bad. For the long term price you're right, aftermarket heads are the way to go. Always room for improvement there BUT you gotta front the big bills right away. Get vortec heads and upgrade them in a couple years when you can afford it. When you upgrade the vortec heads and slap a hot cam in you'll make over 410hp . 422hp with the victor jr intake. That 383 in the newest hot rod mag was awesome. They spent too much money on worthless parts. The cam swap is proof in the bag that these heads are da'****.
500ft-lbs from a 383 with a mild cam and no porting of the heads.
You just have to step back and look at them as another option. Sometimes they work for you, sometimes they won't live up to your expectations. Considering the 330ho motor is only $2000 and is roller cam ready, I'd say that's an awesome deal for anyone wanting to go from a 305 to more cubes. The price is right and I'll put money down that nobody could have thought of a better option for me at the time. The power, the price, the potential (of over 420hp) is all their! If you can do better then good, prove it with real numbers. Look at my website for the pricesheet of everything I had to buy for the engine swap. From the 8in balancer to a new waterpump, new intake, adaptor plate, new 670cfm holley TB unit, new gaskets, etc, all for less than $3000. End of story, my money goes to the vortec heads.

 

any questions? lol:lala:

 

Ya im goin with what JPrevost is sayin! He got his TBI to run a 13.8 which is THE FASTEST ive ever seen a TBI car go!

 

This goes along with what I have been saying all along. These heads are a good choice for a street motor. I love mine. I spent a lot of time on them though. I agree with the comment above, not all of us are made of money. If I could afford AFR's when I was building my engine, I would have bought them. I almost stole the Vortecs for what I paid, and I am very happy with how the engine runs. I am glad to see that MattW understands he doesn't need a 500hp motor. Just one to run a little faster. When I was 16, I didn't understand danger until I slammed my Chevelle into a tree.

 

You want to spend $2000 you say, you want Vortec Heads. Go to GM Performance Parts, you can get a 330 hp 380 FT. Lbs for $2000! Part number: 12486041 - 350 HO