Anybody have any thoughts on this? It would be a 327 crank in a 350 block.
My son and I have bought another 3rd gen for a project and we've been throwin' around engine combos. He got a job at DART Machine about 6 months ago and the owner told him they used this setup years ago with great success ! He said with better than average parts it will rev to the moon.
I was thinkin' maybe with a stiff gear to make up for the lack of torque and a 700r4 for the overdrive so it could be driven on the street might work.
Whats everybody think?

B9radz

 

uuuum. a 327 crank in a 350 block is a 327. You talking about a .030 over 350 block and 327 crank or a 305 block and a 400 crank?

 

sorry, forgot the +30 part

 

A .030" over 327 is a 331.

Spend your money on better than average parts for a 350. Honestly. You'll make more power and it will be more streetable.

This has been discussed on the tech forum quite a bit. It's hard to accept sometimes, but the truth is that the same money spent on a 327 and a 350 will yield a more powerful and more streetable 350.

Every time.

Now, if somebody GAVE me a 327, would I take it?

In a heartbeat!

 

It would be worth it if the 327 had the steel crank. If you want a steel crank in a 350 its gonna set you back $1000. You could have an awesome rod length ratio with a 327 with some 6.0"+ long rods.

Yes the bigger, lower reving engine is more streetable because of the hydraulic roller cam, but if you feel like going to 8000 RPM then the 327 is for you :lala:

 

Putting a 327 crank in a 350 would A - require a 67-and older block or bearing spacers (a.k.a. pointless) unless the crank is 68/69 because i believe the 327 was phased out after 69. the 68/69 cranks would be the only ones that'd fit an 85-down block.

Or you could use a rear seal adapter to use a 68/69 crank in an 86-up block (a.k.a. dumb) which doesn't do any good either.

Cubes are power. The only reason the olde farts remember 327's as screamers was becuase they didn't have heads back then that built velocity with flow like 1990's technology.

Never build a 327 unless it is a 100pt. resto. Always build cubes. The shorter stroke does NOT make it an RPM motor. Cam, heads etc. do.

Matthew

 

Amen.

Almost.

The 327 and 307 cranks were the same. So, a 307 (all were large journal) in a 350 block (two-piece) will make a 327 (331 if .030" over).

 

Remember the original post? This is the owner of DART (the guys that make heads and blocks in Troy,MI) that is telling my son about this setup ! ! I believe he told him that the crank was a 327 spec with a diff rod length(than stock) which is what made it desirable.
This is from a guy that has tried every short block combo possible and with every head possible. If he says it rips i'm tempted to believe him.
I was just trying to get others opinions if they had tried it

 

You did say "years ago". To me, that meant, "Back when I was a kid and 350s didn't exist." Yes, back then, 327s were the hot SBC ticket.

Although you did say "better than average parts", you didn't say anything about fiddlin' around with rod length. Even so, that's being done to 355s, 383s, 406s, 434s, etc., etc., etc., these days. So?

And, if Mr. Dart really believes he can make more power from a tweaked 327 than from a 355, 383, 406, or 434, then I'm afraid reality has left him behind.

Besides, high reving engines and overdrive transmissions don't really make for good daily drivers. Perhaps for driving to and from the strip, but that's about all for the "street" part.

 

someone say 327.............I love mine......scream is the right word.....:lala:

 

Look five7, I'm not tryin' to start an argument. I simply asked for opinions of people that might have "TRIED" this combo and there results. I did'nt state "Mr.Dart" said it would make more power, just that it made good power and would rev. Torque monsters are'nt for everyone. I grew up racing MX & snowmobiles,so I like things that rev. My older brother bought a brand new 69' Z28 and sittin' next to him as an 11 yr. old while he was pullin' 8500rpm power shifts is what got me into cars.
"Different strokes for different folks!!!

 

Also five7, you stated that "reality has left him behind"
Your referring to a guy that has built a multi-million dollar business in which many of the top race teams in the world rely on his parts and expertise. NHRA,WINSTON CUP etc,etc.
reality has left him behind-----------hahahahahaha

 

Peace. I'm not trying to sustain an arguement, either. Just trying to establish exactly what you're after.

Your original post implied that you can't do better than a 331 combo. You've explained now that isn't the case. I think we can agree that any SBC with better than average parts with proper cam, heads & exhaust will make good power and rev. Even my lowly LG4 now makes good power and revs like it never imagined before, and I didn't have to change rod length to accomplish that.

It really depends upon what you are after. If offered a 327, sure, I'd build it because right now I don't have a 350 to build (a major factor in deciding to do what I did to the 305). It doesn't make any sense to to me, though, to "make" a 331 if you're starting with a 350. The steel 327 cranks mentioned earlier were only small journal. If you have a 350, you can make a streetable, more powerful 383 for less money than a long rod, steel crank, 350-block based, revin'-to-the-moon 331.

 

uhm.. why do you have a V8 Vega oilpan on your car?! heh.. just curious

 

Actually it was in a monza. That Pan Came off before it went into my camaro.

 

Well 5.7 is right in saying that more cubes will in general make more power. Basically what you will have with a 331 is an engine that will have a torque curve with more of a peak in it rather than flat, and at a higher RPM. If you have the right gearing and a close ratio tranny (read:not a 700r4) then it might work quite well, but for racing purposes only. More cubes and less RPM's to get to your powerband is much more streetable.

As for paying $1000 for a steel crank for a 350, thats ludicrous. I have one sitting here I picked up from the local machine shop for $175. Its a one piece rear main crank as well.

 

If you have a 327 then you should build it. I don't see why everybody on here is tearin apart 327's??? This engine can and will make just as much power as a 350!! They have power throughout the whole rpm range, not just at the top. I have a 700r4, stock converter, and 3:73 gears and my 327 never falls out of the powerband. I have 305 heads, with a .488/.488 234/234 cam, Performer intake, and 600 edelbrock carb. My car is fully streetable and it leaves the majority of 350 camaro's lookin at my tail lights. Im not trying to say that my 327 is better than any 350 but the power of the 2 is a lot closer than most people think. I think that a 327 would have the power you are lookin for.

 

Just about the same setup that I have....The biggest problem I have is keeping traction at the 1-2 shift.

 

There's nothing at all wrong with a 327.

But...

It will not make as much power as an equivalent 350, ever; that's why we all quit building 327s back in the 70s (oops, just showed how ancient I really am) and started buildng 350s when they came out... the guys that kept on stubbornly building 327s got a new name. We started calling them "losers". I doubt much has changed since then as far as that goes.

But, if you are getting one for free, and it has heads with accessory bolt holes in them (or you have a set of appropriate heads to put on it), then there's nothing wrong with using it. Like Riley says it can make plenty of power. If you have to spend money on boring it, or anything else you can't transfer over to some other motor, I would advise against it though; for the $200 or less that you can pick up a 350 core for, it isn't worth starting out with a lesser core, and then spending a big pile of money on it, then acquiring the above mentioned label when somebody with an otherwise identical 350 dusts you, then having to spend that big pile of money all over again to get back to where you should have been in the first place.

If I already had a 350, I would not downgrade it by removing cubic inches. That is a perfect example of using your own money as the weapon to shoot yourself in the shorts with. Build your 350 exactly as you would build a 327, and it will work the same except more and better.

TPI would be unsuited to the 327's natural power band and would be a poor match, just like it stifles a 350. But a carbed 327 could work just fine, merely not quite as well as the bigger motor.

 

I thought I had bought a 350...(hence the signature).....then I ran the casting # and wa-la......327.... . I must say I am very happy with this motor...but....I am in the market for a good 400 block,,,more more more always more.

 

Let me clarify a few things guys. The owner of DART and my son were talking about different combos for the street. He said that a particuler rod/crank ratio (of exact dimensions he did'nt disclose) that equated to 331ci's would be a good option because of its rev capability. This intrigued me because I like having things that are a little different than everybody else. But mostly what I think has to be considered is the resources that are now available to us while my son is working for Dart Machinery, not to mention the price of parts--iron eagle block-$500,Alum.heads fully assembled, ported, with Jesel shaft mounted rockers and a dual plane intake for $400 etc etc. So I guess what I'm saying is with those kinds of resources, I think we could make this run with 99% of the 383's & 415's out there. We live a little north of Detroit with alot of competition available on nearby Woodward Avenue. Were thinking of carbed and a six speed.

 

IIRC if you take a 400 block and put a 3" stroke crank in it, that's what you get... I don't think I'd do that for the street. For a round(!) track like Martinsville, maybe, where there's a big difference between straightawy and corner RPM, and no time to shift. I've had clutches explode from too much RPM (although I'm luckier than some, I still have 2 feet), and ruined a perfectly good 69 Chevelle SS396 hood one time when an alternator fan exploded. Too many people with no high RPM experience think it's easy to turn those big numbers; it isn't. All sorts of things happen that you would never expect.

 

All sorts of things...

Like fan belts flying off, hitting the cooling fan, and damaging not only the fan, belt, but some pulleys and the hood as well.
Exploding heater cores. Theres a reason people dont put them in race cars.
Blowing the radiator hoses off.
Vibrating every single exhaust bolt right off the car.
The aforementioned flywheel.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RB83L69
[B]There's nothing at all wrong with a 327.

But...

It will not make as much power as an equivalent 350, ever; that's why we all quit building 327s back in the 70s (oops, just showed how ancient I really am) and started buildng 350s when they came out... the guys that kept on stubbornly building 327s got a new name. We started calling them "losers". I doubt much has changed since then as far as that goes.

So im a ****ing loser because I built a 327? that's funny because you have a 305 code in your screen name(L69 hahaha)!! I really hope you don't have a 305 and L69 is just in your screen name for the hell of it. You are talkin all this **** about 327's even though it was one of the first chevy small blocks to produce more than 1 horsepower per cubic inch!! I don't even think that you're big bad L69 even produces 1/2 a horsepower per cubic inch.
I don't think you know what you are talking about and I dont really care how long you have been around!! You just just need to watch what your saying with that ignorant mouth of yours!

 

Thank you for your mature, thoughtful, and fact-filled response.

My car does in fact have a 305 in it right now. If you were a little more aware of the world around you, you might know that in California, cars are required to have the original motor or an emissions-certified replacement, meeting certain rather stringent requirements. Not knowing exactly what those requirements were, and not wanting to get any more hassle than absolutely necessary when I moved there and had to have my car smogged, I removed the 400 that used to be in it and put the original block (thinking that perhaps they would check the numbers on it). It isn't totally the original motor in stock trim however; it puts out about 265 real-world crank HP according to the local chassis dyno, which IMHO is not too bad for a car that meets California emissions specs. That of course is as it is installed in the chassis, with an exhaust system, water pump, alternator, PS pump, all emissions devices installed and operating including AIR and EGR, A/C installed and functional, etc., with the original carb, air cleaner, intake, and most of the rest of the exterior pieces.

My screen name is what it is because that's what my car came as. And for your information, it was rated at 190 HP, which is significantly in excess of ½ HP per cu in.

Since you know all about old motors, you may recall that the first motor that produced one HP per cu in was a 283. So what? Does that mean that all 283s are better than other motors? I think not. The same goes for 327s, or 350s, or F*rd 302s; there have been huge variants of all of those, some of which are a whole lot better than others. The mere fact that some one or another of them had a high rating back in the 60s when the ratings were essentially fantasy land, doesn't somehow translate into all of that particular motor being great.

I'll still take the exact same induction parts you have whatever they are, stick them on a 350, and drill your 327. Choose the name that fits best.

 

Should I edit this or not? Decisions decisions...

Nah, I think I'll leave it here for everyone to see what a big mouth you have. This post has gone far enough. Consider it locked.