I got my hands on a set of older Edelbrock headers (1 1/2" and 1 5/8" tubes) and a set of SLP 1 3/4" headers. They're used, so you can see how they look after a few miles.

http://24.1.139.249/images/082901/DCP_0269.JPG
These are the SLP's. Notice the brown color. They turn this color after use, from the new silvery color. The bad things about them, the AIR tube sticks straight up so hose connection is a little difficult without their adapter.
http://24.1.139.249/images/082901/DCP_0274.JPG
This is the port side of the SLP headers. Notice the large openings. The 02 bung is on the inside like stock. Also, the flanges are separate, which makes installation a little easier, but they are succeptable to warping.

http://24.1.139.249/images/082901/DCP_0270.JPG
Here is the Edelbrock headers. Notice how crappy they look after running them, they turn that ghostly white color. New they are black. The AIR fitting is angled back for easier connection, and the O2 bung is on the outside, which makes it slightly easier to access. However, that #2 cylinder tube on the passenger header goes right across the top, making spark plug access difficult. Its already pretty tough with the AIR valve, AC, and heater controls on that side.
http://24.1.139.249/images/082901/DCP_0275.JPG
Here is the port side of the Edelbrocks. I didnt get a close up picture, but the weld inside is pretty thick here, making the port even smaller. If you've got heads with 1.60" exhaust valves, you're trying to push that volume of exhaust thru a header that is 1.50" *outside* diameter, more like 1.375" inside diameter. Why would you want to push hot exhaust, which likes to expand, thru a smaller chamber? Also, the AIR tubes stick a good 1/4" or more into the headers.

http://24.1.139.249/images/082901/DCP_0273.JPG
Here are the y-pipes, the SLP is on top, the Edelbrock on the bottom. Notice the Edelbrock y-pipe also exhibits that crappy white flaking, which the SLP still looks pretty good. Also pay close attention to where the two pipes join. Edelbrock's pipe smashes the two together into one, while SLP's make a true y-connection.

In summary, while SLP headers do have their faults, I feel Edelbrock's headers have more faults, and their smaller size restricts the exhaust flow of a 350 engine or larger. I firmly believe the SLP headers are worth the extra cost for their quality, longevity, larger size, better y-pipe, and resistance to rust. Yes you can get the Edelbrock's coated, but then they cost as much or more as the SLP headers, which dont need to be coated.

Thanks for reading.


------------------
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
317 RWHP, 418 RWTQ
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Member: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Liking the colour of one header over another is NOT an argument.

Longevity, ease of installation and access to spark plugs would carry the day for me.

But I've got a set of Hooker Shorties and they are just fine

 

Yup, like I say: I'd rather have headers that are a pain to install and over priced if they get me results, than have easy to install, "affordable" headers. Damn, even my 1-1/2" headers with a "custom" Y-pipe look better than those Edelcrocks (as you put it).

------------------
George P. Lara
1984 Z28
2001 SS #0391
SCCA, SCFB, SC3GFB

[This message has been edited by MRZ28HO (edited August 30, 2001).]

 

If I've got a pretty engine bay with chrome pieces and stuff, I certainly wouldnt want headers that look like Edelbrock's in there! So yes its a valid arguement for some people. Then again, I guess those people would get their headers coated.

 

Well since the comparison is here, these are the hooker super comp shorties for comparison, they are coated so just pretend they are black, the only thing bad about them are the ball joints.

http://members.home.net/acornacchia/headers2.jpg

http://members.home.net/dcornacchia/headers4.jpg
http://members.home.net/dcornacchia/headers5.jpg


[This message has been edited by Jono (edited August 31, 2001).]

 

i have the edelbrock headers. when i got them i sandblasted them and painted them and 2 years later they look better than those slp ones pictured. and for my mild 305, they are great, accept that i can't get to two of the spark plugs. when i build my real motor(a 383) i will probably get some slp headers. can you guys get to all the plugs with the slp?

------------------
86 IROC-Z
305 TPI
700R4 W/ shift kit
3.23 gears
T-Tops
maroon with gold stickers and rims/ black interior
43,000 miles
flowmaster exhaust, edelbrock headers, gutted airbox, converter, and MAF, K&N filters.

soon to come are 3.73 gears and subframe connecters.

 

Personally I would go with hooker super comp shorties for 1 5/8ths and slp for 1 3/4's headers. I find that the super comps pipes have less bends and curves in them and look like they've been thought out compared to the others.

 

If you're going to compare the 2 companies products, at least compare the SLPs to Edelbrocks stainless steel TES's.

Comparing mild steel to stainless for weather/durability is comparing apples to oranges.

Comparing 1 5/8" headers to 1 3/4" is just the same, of course the 1 5/8 is smaller, that's physically evident from the measurments.

As far as the black coating, it's simply cheap black spray paint put on to preserve the mild steel from rusting until a real coating is applied by the consumer. Most people mistake this as some great high heat paint which it isn't.

I've had my edelbrocks for about 5 years, I spent $28 for a bottle of Cermakrome (which can be polished if you're detail oriented) to coat them & haven't worried about them yet.

The Y pipe is designed to smoothe the transition into 1 larger pipe (same idea Flowmaster had for the Y pipe they make) instead of an abrupt curve into 1 pipe.

I'm not upholding Edelbrock in anyway, believe me, they have thier faults (quality control on the welds mainly & certain rmp resonance). Both companies make a good product. But to compare them unfairly based what seems solely on appearance isn't very balanced either. Either way, you're going to get stiffed way more than you should for either product. (ever wonder why only 3rd gen headers are outrageously priced ?)

How many of you think of putting 1 5/8" headers on a 350 anyways ?



------------------

• my Formula Homepage
• Collision P/Ns & Diagrams (Camaros & some of the Firebirds, more on the way)

The mind is like a parachute, it only works when its open

 

n/m

[This message has been edited by Jza (edited August 31, 2001).]

 

"How many of you think of putting 1 5/8" headers on a 350 anyways ?"

Actually alot are, its been 1 of the biggest topics here recently. I think I'd go with 1 3/4's.



------------------
89 RS

STILL Looking For:
An 87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI

 

I really like it that someone has taken the time to post pics of the two most popular header designs for our cars. Obviously certain things are going to attract different people to different things. For example, I went with the Edelbrocks for a few reasons...mainly because of the price/benefit ratio. I knew that whatever headers I got, they would be coated because a nice ceramic coating looks the best in my opinion. Buying the TES's and having them coated was probably what I would have spent on the SLP's alone. I still don't think the SLP's look that good with a little wear on them, although they do look better than the Edelbrocks. So right now, it was more worth my while to get the one that was going to be less draining on my budget. I guess it all depends on your individual application and what you are trying to do in the future. I do comend the pics though...that was very nice. Later

Matt

------------------
irocet@hotmail.com

drive.to/Stang_Kilr

88 IROC-Z -- 350 L-98, 700R4, Flowmaster, Edelbrock Headers, Catco Cat, K&N, MAF Sceens Removed, Airfoil, March Pullies, Comp Cams Magnum 1.6 Roller Rockers, Bosch Platinum Plugs, Accel 8.8 mm Wires, MSD 6AL, Hypertech Cap & Coil, Hypertech Chip, Hotchkis Strut Tower Brace

 

Will anyone ever make good headers for our cars?

 

The only good headers would be customs, but they're not emissons legal...

One other thing I noticed about them, but I'm not sure if you can see it in the pic. At the collector, the Edelbrock headers exhibit the same "smashing together" effect that their y-pipe does, while the SLP's stay round up to the collector.

 

TTT!!!

 

Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4" Long Tubes Anyone??? The only downside to these are the non-ease of installation (from what I've heard anyways, haven't gotten mine yet - I am going from my TES to the Super Comps next spring, fundage permitting ) and the overall cost when the Y-pipe is factored in (only one I have seen is the $279 Mufflex one....). They should be more then enough header for even the stoutest of small block Chevy's.......

I guess another downside is that they aren't emissions legal... but who hasn't figured out a way around emissions these days?????

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

IM not happy with any of the headers out there for our cars. They all seem to have there share of problems. I agree with you Kevin about the horsepower potential difference. Up till now.. Ive been really happy with the Edelbrocks I have. But they are costing me power on my 406. IM looking for a replacement set of shorty 1 3/4 diameter headers(Maybe SLP)The welds inside the Edelbrock pipes are really restrictive for a large motor. The welds can be ground out, but the pipe diameter cant be changed. I placed my Felpro gasket on the Trickflow heads it fit really well. But when I matched it up to the headers all I could see was 1/4 of weld all around. I didnt have time to port them out when I installed the 406.

On a highly modded motor If you are after maximum power the SLPs will be the winner.

But..IMO For a mild motor the Edelbrocks offer the best all around value compared to the SLPS. In sunny Florida a can of Ceramic header paint is all that you need to make them last.







------------------
90 IROC
SuperRamed 406
Trickflow 23* heads

 

yea, that white flacky stuff on the edelbrocks is the paint that protects it during shipping, if you had read the instructions, you would have noticed that you are supposed to sandblast then, then coat them, how can you compaire a product if you dont install it right, about the size, if i had a 350 or bigger, i would definatly go with the slp's, but the edelbrocks are just great for my 305

------------------
Trent
---Car---
89 Firebird/305 L03 TBI A4/t-tops
Open Element Edelbrock Aircleaner w/ K&N air filter/Summit Chrome Valve Covers
Edelbrock TES headers 3" out/flowmaster American thunder 3" exaust/Catco cat
---Stero---
Pioneer DEH-P730 Premium
Infinity 2way 4652 4x6's/Pioneer 4way ts-a6985 6x9's
profile cl640 110x4

 

I ported out my TES headers a lot and they still only marginally match the TFS 23* heads. I got the headers to atleast somewhat transition from the head to the primary header tube but nothing to brag about as far as flow potential.... I, like you, just didn't have the money to go with anything other than the TES when I put the engine together(they were on my car when I bought it).....

I can't wait for some Hooker LTs.....

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

Hey Matt...Was it worth the trouble porting the welds out. IM going to uprgrade when I can. IM just wandering if it would be worth the effort in the mean time.

What did you use to port them? I have some roll bits but I think the welds would chew them up pretty fast.

------------------
90 IROC
SuperRamed 406
Trickflow 23* heads

 

what about dynomax's emmissions legal headers? are they any good?


------------------
86',88',89' IROC-Z, 350 TPI, 700-R4

94' Formula, LT1, 6spd

 

What about Headman's?
What about the old school 4-2-1 tri-y SLP 1 5/8" headers!
I have the tri-y headers and they look just like the pictures of the SLP headers except they're a different design of course.
They install a lot easier. No problems with them rubbing up against the steering shaft!
The one complaint I have is the way the y-pipe is so low in one part. It has a couple dings in it and I'm a little worried about it. If it leaks I'm sure it'll be an easy fix but it's still going to be a PITA. So far so good. I also have trouble getting to the spark plugs on the passenger side.
Oh yeah, and my headers don't have the AIR fittings sticking straight up, they're like stock and face the firewall.
I guess I win ....unless you have a really wild 350+ cubes....then the 1 3/4" would probably show a few extra hp.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

My TES look nothing like that. What the heck. I just put mine on with the black paint and let it burn off. They were white for awhile but it was just a powdery junk on them. Wore off completely and they look almost identical to the SLPs in the pictures, no white on them at all. Both are pretty ugly either way, I thought the SLPs were supposed to stay silverish. Oh well.

I'm not so sure I buy into the 1 5/8 vs 1 3/4 thing anyway either... Who was it ahile back that tested all kinds of headers on a 400 hp motor and got the best numbers with a set of measly 1.5" Dynomax headers??? Think it was CHP or Superchevy, they were kinda surprised by the results as well, the bigger headers weren't gaining jack over the 1.5 and 1 5/8 units...

Don't the SLPs have like a 2 1/4 inch y-pipe in certain areas too? The TES y-pipe looks bigger in the pics. Thought I remembered reading something about SLPs with 2 1/4 inch instead of 2.5. ALthough the TES y-pipe does combine with the pipes crushed into D shapes though...

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited October 29, 2001).]

 

Well my TES was on the car when I bought it. I pulled the original L98 engine soon after I got the car (see my site for an explaination on that) and I had the headers just sitting there. So I figured I could clean up the headers while I was gathering parts for the new engine. I started out just by cleaning all of the rust off of them and getting them ready for painting (I ended up using Duplicolor 1800* F ceramic header paint, aluminum color - it still looks pretty good after about 3K miles). But upon further examination, I knew I didn't want those stupid A.I.R. pipes on there - they protrude into the header primary about 1/4" right where they meet the head!! Talk about a restriction! So I ground them off completely on the inside and ground them flush with the outside of the tubes as well. I than gave them to my buddy that does welding and had him weld the holes shut and grind them flat again. The results were great and most assuredly aided flow rates.

I then took the header gasket and observed the same issues that others have mentioned about the poor matching of the ports. So I smoothed the transition of the flange to the primary tube. I am sure this also helped the flow rates out a lot.

As far as tools go: I used my pneumatic die grinder with a conical grinding burr for the big stuff and then touched up everything with my Dremal with a standard cutting burr...

I really don't have any quantifiable evidence of how much the porting helped though, since I did the mods to the headers while I was building the 355 I now run, but the engine pulls nicely to over 5500 rpm.... (of course, the heads and whatnot help compliment the porting I did, but if the headers were choking me off a lot, It wouldn't pull at higher rpm as well)....

------------------
1987 GTA L98 MD8
355, TFS Heads, LT4 Hot Cam
My GTA

The Minnesota F-body Club

 

So, Kevin91Z, would you like to give me those edelbrock headers?? Or anyone else who is upgrading headers want to get rid of theirs?

I have a 305 so I'll pretend to not complain about primary tube diameter. And I'm a broke college student, no money to buy an awesome set of headers. I have been considering simply upgrading to 350 exhuast manifolds (probally the only way I can afford to upgrade my manifolds), I mean anything is better that the manifolds on my LO3.

What is this about edelbrock quality control, is there only a problem in exhuast, or everything?

Thanks,
Jordan

 

Nice Car Matt...I forgot about removing the air tubes. I dont think IM going to go with a larger header after all. IM just going to do the port work like you described. I had a chance to take the car out for some runs. I just got it back from the chip tuner this Past weekend. I havent had a chance to drive it hard till tonight. IM having some Ignition probles that I hope to correct. Its a monster The torque is awesome. Who needs larger tubes.....





------------------
90 IROC
SuperRamed 406
Trickflow 23* heads

[This message has been edited by MikeH (edited October 29, 2001).]

 

I've posted many times before on this subject. That test is on a carb engine, which exhibits very different behavior than a TPI or other EFI engine. TPI engines create their own torque, therefore it takes advantage of the larger headers to help it breath at all RPMs. The better an engine is able to get the air out, the easier it is to get the air in.

Both those headers belong to customers of my dad's business, and both have long since been installed and out the door. Check the classifieds for people selling headers. On a stock 305 TBI engine it doesnt matter because you're not flowing a lot of air anyway. Dont even both changing to stock exhaust manifolds unless you're pulling the engine. Get headers or dont bother doing all that work.

Both those headers were used, with an unknown mileage and age. My dad had them both so I took the pictures as a comparison to show the shape and angle of the headers, as well as the quality of the material. You can draw your own conclusions.

 

Do the SLP's have 2 1/4" pipes in any part of the y-pipe, or am I thinking or something else?

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

 

I could use a set of SLP 1 3/4 pipes on my 406. But I have read about so many problems with installation,spark plug access,and y pipe fitment. I probably will get something else unless I run across a good deal on a set.

If I do use the SLPs I will get some before and after dyno numbers. I have my ignition system working good now. So IM going back to see what kinda nubers I get with the TES.



------------------
90 IROC
SuperRamed 406
Trickflow 23* heads

 

If you don't have to be ested for emmisions, then what is the best headers to get, performance wise? On a 5.7

------------------
no car, just savin for a fbody, i am 16 not to much money, I am shooting for a late 80's early 90's 350, iroc or z28.

 

Can someone post a working link? Thanks

[This message has been edited by Mike89GTA (edited December 13, 2001).]