Everyone i try to talk to says duals "CAN'T" be done on my car...i tell them it can and when i try to argue the fact that it can be they get offended and don't even want to consider it...my question is...does anyone make a dual setup pre fabbed...or can i get some pics or specs to take to thes arrogant jerks to prove my point...

 

Honestly the shop must be pretty ****ty if they are being that way. Must be one of those shops that just likes to buy cat backs cheap and make a killing putting them on. Anyone with half a brain can tell their is room for a dual setup on them. I would just try to find another shop. I dont know of any prefab units that are reasonable. Their is a dual kit for dumps I think out there but anyone can build them theirselves.

 

Heres one way to do a true dual, pretty simple too.

Heres a list of what you need for this:
Long tube headers( shorties or manifolds would work too just not as simply)
Heddman header extensions
summit h-pipe
2-4' lengths of exh. pipe
mufflers of choice.

 

heres another way to route it out back, both of these pics are off of other cars on this site.

 

They also might be telling you duals can not be done because it is not emissions legal and they do not want to get into trouble.

If you have to prove your point about the duals maybe you should consider finding another shop. There are shops out there that are willing to do it. You just have to talk to the right friends, find the right place, or pay under the table.

 

how low are the cars in the pics.mine is stock height and i just put 255/50/16's on it today...i am mainly concerned because i want to do duals when i do my engine swap to an older model 350 with tbi...the heads flow great but if i cant get all that air out they are pretty useless...i have tried several shops...and even shops that friends of friends have worked at...i have even told them i would do dual cats if i had too....(then cut them off later ) ...so i will try a differant approach maby....what headder suggestions do you all have on a budget of coarse....thanks guys

 

you would have to define budget for us, everyone is on one!! If you were looking at true duals, I would assume that you want long tubes right? I think the hooker 2210s or hedmans are you only choice then.

 

budget being under $200...thx

 

You cant touch hooker 2210's lt's for that, they are around 425 I belive, I think you could get some good shorties or mid length headers for that and run the true duals off of them. Maybe then get some lt's later when funds allow. If you look at the sticky for the best headers it has a list of the shorties.

 

O you might want to look in the classifieds for good deals!!

 

thats cool im kinda taking my time with engine so maby when i need them i can get the hookers....thanks

 

Exhaust shops, by law, cannot remove, relocate, nor tamper in any way with the factory location of cats. There's a reason they call 'em cat-back exhaust sysytems. Fines are pretty stiff, don't know about jail time, though.

Having said that, there are operators out there that will do stuff under the table, so to speak. You just have to seek them out.

Tim sends

 

but he never said anything about going without cats, in fact he said he would if he had to...there isnt anything wrong with what he's wanting to do legal wise, just a worthless damn muffler shop. You shouldnt have to go under the table on something like this. I know good exhaust shops are a pain in the *** to find.

 

I've checked with a few shops. I walk in say I want to price a true dual system if I rolled in on headers alone. The guys always seem interested, ask what kind of car it is. I cay 91 Camaro, they think for a moment and state definitively that it cannot be done. Claims there's no room. Now, I've seen a few sweet true dual systems on here and when I state that I can bring in a pic to prove it can be done, they DO get pissed and that's the end...

Looks like I'm gonna have to do it myself if I want it done at all.

 

PhlaXuS I know of a shop in Pt Stlucie Fl who will put duals on your car Amufller shop. And for cheaper long tubes use the Headman headers I thik cost around $125.00 and have 1 5/8 primarys.

 

Hmmm...kinda far, but money's tight now anyway. If you wouldn't mind passing along a bit of contact info, I'll look them up when I'm no longer po'.

 

slick, my point was, exhaust shops, or anyone for that matter, is not allowed, by federal law to change the factory configuration for cats. If the vehicle did not leave the factory with dual cats, then in the eyes of the law, NO ONE is allowed to equip the vehicle with dual cats. I'm not saying thats right, just letting the group know what the law says. Personally, if the end result is no gain in pollutants, why not run it that way? That's not the way the EPA sees things. I'm not trying to start a flame war, just trying to tell folks the way things are. You can run with anything that you can get away with, but you're gonna get fooked eventually. Here in the PHX metro area, the state enviromental ***** set up sniffer vans on freeway entrances and exits to monitor pollutants. Photo notices sent to the registered owner's address, come in for a sniffer test, etc, etc.

Tim sends

 

Ummm...wow! Would it be illegal to have a shop fab true duals, but not install them? Just give them the car and have the pipes welded together. Then, take the pipes home and install them yourself?

 

Don't know. I would think it would be ok as long as the shop didn't install anything. Point is, most shops are not willing to lose certification, licenses, etc over a system that would only net them a couple hundred bucks. That, I think, is the reason for most shops not wanting to dabble in dual territory.

Tim sends

 

yea i was by no means trying to start a flame war . The one good thing in KS is that you can get away with anything emissions wise. It does sound to me though like these are pretty worthless shops if they are saying that there is no room instead of explaining they dont want the liability. My experience with shops are they will tell me straight up that they dont want to do anything that can come back and bite them in the ***. One of my buds had a system fabed up but not put on the car and he took it home and welded it up, dont know how that would work though...I would think alot of the fab is done on the car and as it is installed

 

I believe that to be the case. As long as the entire system was set up with bolt-on flanges to the collectors, they could tack weld the entire thing together, remove it from the car and finish weld it. This has the added advantage of enablking you to wrap the entire exhaust if you wanted. I always wanted to try that.

If you used 2" wide wrap and overlapped 1/2" on each revolution, then that should be ~63" of total length per foot. If the exhaust were roughly 10' long then with duals you'd have about 20 feet of exhaust to wrap.

At $35.88 for 2" x 50' wrap, that would be a little over two full rolls. So for around $120, including shipping, you should be able to wrap the entire system.

This is, of course, assuming I did my calculations properly while watching SNL...

 

What would be the advantage to wraping the exhaust? I understand the wrapping headers because of the heat but it also rusts them out real bad

 

Same thing. If you could keep the exhaust hot all the way back, that would be the best case scenario, but I don't know how much of a power gain you'd see. If POR15 is heat resistant, maybe that would be a possibility, but I've no idea what it's thermal characteristics are.

[edit:] I take it back. I did a quick search and what I see is that POR15 is no good for >300* or so. POR20 is good for up to 1400* F, I think. Still don't know if it would be a decent thermal insulator.

 

If you have true duals put on with cats its leagle in FL. And if you tell them its a trak only car any thing goes. Ill get the # later this week. And for raping the exhaust its a bad idea it will rust the exhaust system

 

If you have true duals put on with cats its leagle in FL. And if you tell them its a trak only car any thing goes. Ill get the # later this week. And for raping the exhaust its a bad idea it will rust the exhaust system. And the shop can also do 3in systems also.

 

i have also had shops tell me a while back that if i bring the car in with no cat then they can work on it but they still insisted that there was no room...I don't want to do anything illegal i just want my 350 to get the air out it will be taking in...Oh im in a small town in TN so emissions are not a factor for me right now anyway...if i had a shop and a welder i'd do it myself...

 

If you want to maintain stock ground clearance and do a quick, simple duals system, there is no room. Duals on these cars require a very experienced and skilled fabricator that is willing to spend a lot of time test-fitting and getting a very complicated and technical system just right. These cars were never designed for true duals, so it requires a lot of time, skill and patience. The 3 items listed are expensive. Most muffler shops are not about quality.

 

Stroker_SS: HOw much ground clearance have you got with that h-pipe setup?

 

You hit the nail right on the head there. I only deal with one shop around here, the rest are just fly by night operations that are their for a year or 2 and gone. We have a few shops thats been around for 20 years but they just like putting on cat backs, well hell give anyone a mig welder, and a couple hours to get competent welding and they can put on their own cat back. Its real hard to find any good shops any more it seems, I doubt they have any come back customers.

 

will cat backs from a fourth gen fit under my car?

 

Yes, although some may need to have the hangers slightly modified.

 

What about running the pipes side by side in the stock location? Saw that somewhere...and for those who have to deal with inspections, what about a dual in/dual out cat? Then your cat would act as your "X-pipe," two pipes in, two out in the stock location. My friend's truck has a dual in, single out cat, but I thought I saw a dual in, dual out cat somewhere.

Or, a big fat 3" y-pipe and collector to a 3" in/out single cat, then the pipe Y's after the cat, to run side by side in the stock location...I've thought about that, not "true" true duals, but would probably sound good, plus you could do a GMMG pipe routing in the back, to two bullets, or two chambered mufflers.

Or you could just do a mandrel bent 3" and be done with it, and you could still have it Y at the back for dual bullets etc. My .02. As for whether duals are possible, I've seen plenty of nice dual setups on these boards, like the one above. Very nice.

 

Yea I think thats how most custom shops actually do it. I know spohn i think it is makes that offset panhard bar so you can run duals side by side. I think thats how you get the most ground clearance. I dont see any advantage to a dual in/ out cat, you can get small round ones that dont take hardly any space if that is your concern. I have seen them but they are more pricey than a good set of high flow cat. The mandrel 3" bent pipe is what comes on most cat backs, right? I think the sound of true duals with your choice of mufflers speaks for its self. It has a completely different note, and after owning several of the early a-bodies, I think true duals are the only way to go, with long tubes of course