I have an edelbrock y pipe on order from jegs...since everyone and their mother apparently wants 1 so they are all on back order. I am planning on a track trip this friday. I really want to put on these headers but without the y pipe i am more then likely screwed correct? Just wondering why the edelbrock headers wont mount up to the stock y pipe? position issue? flange differences issues? What are we talking here..

 

It's totally different. So yeah, what you said; and a few more reasons besides.

 

Unless you are planning cutouts, it kind of defeats the purpose of the headers. It'll be free breathing up till the y-pipe, then constricted and backpressured all the way through. Cutouts will help, but not a whole lot. However, if its temporary, just drive with open headers to the track.

 

well temporary as in like a 2 week wait for this damn thing...damn looks like im screwed then..

 

if its a 2 week thing, id bite the bullet, and purchase another pair of exhaust gaskets, throw the stock manifolds back on. Might run a lil slower than the actual time, but atleast u'll get to the track. Or if your set on keeping your headers on, drive down to speedy muffler, get em to fab you up a lil connection to the y-pipe.

 

well my main problem (and reason for getting exhaust) is that ive got a 383 with stock exhaust all the way back..the car has some serious detonation issues and my last ditch attempt to solve it is to throw full exhaust (headers for now) and see if it is the problem. I removed the cat and suddenly the hardcore audible detonation went away.. Idk if the manifolds (305 ones at that) are causing too much back pressure and cly pressure? As soon as i stab the throttle i get 16 degrees yanked and it flucates from 16-10 degrees throughout WOT. I have 850-900 o2 volts at wot and my timing is 20 degrees advance at the that load...yet i still get 16 degrees pulled. Im running out of ideas..

 

Im suprised the headers didn't come with a y-pipe, I know mine did, but that was back in 02....

Another option if you are worried about the valves is to use the down pipes off of the stock y pipe, just hack them off before they join so you still get some scavenging, but not too much back pressure.

 

If you have a 383 why in the hell are you going to choke it off with those awful Edelcrock headers??? The Hooker's or the SLP 1 3/4" are tons better.

Your initial timing is 20 degrees advanced, or the total timing is 20 degrees? Your initial should be the stock 6 degrees and no more than 10 degrees initial. That will definitely cause pinging if the timing is set that high. Other causes are a loose rocker arm (false knock), bad gasoline (real knock), too high compression ratio (real knock), or a bad knock sensor circuitry (false knock).

 

Ok, i see youre running a TPI motor, but now were getting to the heart of the problem. Definately sounds like a timing issue. When did the knock start? Was it always there? Even if you remove the y-pipe and go for an aftermarket one, the backpressure will still exist. The back pressure itself will not trigger a knock, it may set off a few sensors that could conrtibute but in itself it shouldnt. Like Kevin said, more info would be nice, what sort of compression are you running? ignition upgrades at all? type of fuel? etc.... Knocking can be fixed, i doubt it has much to do with the exhaust though.

 

Kevin, I respect you and your F-body knowledge, but on this issue I have to disagree with you! I ran my Edelbrock TES system with my Minirammed 385 for a whole season, managed a best of 12.40 at 114 MPH, did a whole lot of cruising, ran probably thirty or fouty passes at the dragstrip, won a first place trophy at NFME in Memphis, TN's autocross, hit 145MPH in the straitaway on the road course, and got 19 MPG on the highway!

Oh, and laid down 396 RWHP, about 460(ish) at the crankshaft, on the Livernois Motorsports chassis dyno.

So rant all you want about the Edelbrocks. They are a decent enough header for the money and they perform well enough behind a 383. Yeah, sure, Hooker long tubes offer better performance, but the Edelbrocks have decent enough performance, have better ground clearance and cost a whole lot less.

 

since this wasnt the original issue...i didnt lay down much info

kevin..base is set at 6...25 at idle with ecm plugged in

car is a 383, edelbrock 60cc performer heads, comp cam (08-502-8), comp full roller rockers, edelbrock tpi system, 30lb ford motorsport injectors..10:1 compression running ngk fr5 plugs gapped at .045

Now, the detonation is real..at least most of it. I set the ecm to pull out a max of 4 degrees at wot and it had very severe detonation after i did that. SO i set it back to 16 and youll hear it click barely at all. The reason im looking into exhaust is because i yank the plugs and they are BRIGHT yellow..which leads me to high speed glazing..a sudden increase in cly pressure. Im also having issues with what i assume is too much crank case pressure b/c its pushing oil through the breather on one side. and it looks like im acutally pushing it through where the dipstick mounts as well. I dont know if these two things are related or not but its just a theory at this point..

I noticed after i cut the cat off...most of the hardcore audible detonation dissappeared...which further leads me to the exhaust sytems causing my issues. Ive gone through numerous tanks of gas, the total timing when the detonation occurs is 20 degrees advanced @ wot. Pretty much my timing tables are untouched for a 350...i even zeroed out the spark advance adder table. I have the updated gm esc module and have a new 350 knock sensor in there and i believe its function fine since i get no code 43


not to mention i also got these headers for FREE...a price you can't aruge with.

 

Just imagine how much faster and better MPG the car would be if the engine could get the exhaust out of it fast enough! They dont even call them headers, they call them tubular exhaust pipes. Yes, you can use a garden hose to put out a fire, but a firehose is much better.

Get rid of the breather and put the PCV system back to stock. Breathers dont work on EFI cars; they're for drag race and oval-track carb cars. Sucking oil into the combustion chambers will cause it to knock. The high cylinder pressure has me worried though. Are you sure your compression is 10:1? You might need to do a compression test on a few cylinders to see.
Also, when you removed the exhaust system, you removed the restriction and let it get the exhaust out. That cut down on some of the problem, hence my post about the effectiveness of your headers.
Otherwise, I'm out of ideas....

 

o dont get me wrong kevin..i got a pcv on one side of the car..like stock. That tube that used to lead to the tb has a breather in place of it now

and yea im sure its 10:1, i called the company and made sure. The motor was built by enginefactory.com, the guy who sold me the car even saved all the paper work for it.

Yea im hoping this solves it, worse comes to worse i guess i could weld the tubes onto the headers and use a crank case evacutation system if it continues, but i know i shouldnt have too...thats taking on a symptom, not the problem

 

Well good/bad news. I came home last night from work after i set up a system where the passanger side has a breather with a pcv hole built into it and ran a tube from that to the throttle body (much like the factory breather tube) and when i came home..to my amazement it stopped pushing oil through it. However i then started to see smoke and found out the car has pushed oil out somewhere and it was all over the transmission case, exhaust, starter and what not. I took the starter off today and dropped the exhaust..even removed the torque converter inspection cover. everything looks oil free. The back of the heads are clean, so its not the valve cover gaskets which are brand new as well. Distributor o ring is new, and no leaks from there either. Intake manifold looks clean as well. Oil seemed to be concentrated on the passanger side of the block. Which made me thing possibly the dipstick tube, checked that..they sealed it with alot of silicone, and it looked leak free too..

 

Its a pretty obvious comment, but think gravity. Things go down cuz of gravity. Its pretty tight back there, but there couldnt be too many things that push oil. Try to find out where the oil was most concentrated at the bottom, and follow that stream up. If you have a hoist it helps a ton, and lighting is key.

Youve pretty much said all the things i was thinking of, but just recheck them maybe ull find something you missed. Also, im not knowledgeable enough to know, but do freeze plugs hold in coolant or oil? That might be a culpret, and possibly even the oil pressure sending unit location.

 

well thanks for all the help guys..

But now for the real kill all news. I did a compression test on the motor compression was reading 240-250 throughout all clyinders...until i hit cly 5. 115 in that bitch...168 with 30 wt oil down the cly. Looks like i fried number 5's rings....awesome


sucks but thats what i get for trusting someone...shoulda have done a test sooner but whatever...live and learn i guess

 

Sorry to hear that, you seem pretty knowledgeable, so you'll prolly have that done in no time, I guess it'll explain all the symptoms eh?

Dont look at it as CRAP I gotta fix that now, look at it as, WOW im glad i caught that before something more important blew up! Better you found out now, than on the track.

 

yea i guess so...this is getting tiresome after the head gaskets im drained pretty bad. This motors going to need a good going over...it says it was rated at 10:1 but i was cranking 240-250 compression on all the rest of the clyinders..which like 14:1 isnt it?

Something is seriously wrong here...

 

I'd call the guy that turned the wrench/saved all that paperwork. See what he/she says.

 

That seems like a TON of cranking compression. it is a long shot but is the cam degreed in properly? usually compression is around 180psi or something like that. highest I've seen was 220 one time. That is a ton of squeeze for just cranking compression, and usually larger cams tend to bleed some of that off.

 

yea it showed no signs of bleeding off either..hmm

well idk if it was degreed right...enginefactory.com built the engine. I have a feeling either someone has been in it or they messed it up, but i cant say for sure..