Check this out. I have SLP headers. When I had my 86 Z28 with a 350 in it, there wer a 1/4 space between the header tube and the steering shaft. I switched engines and brackets. When I reinstalled the engine the header tube was rubbing against the steering shaft. Why did this happen? That's when Dyno Don pointed out to me that the brackets are different and I needed to switch them around. The naked eye can't see it but it did make a difference. It's just the little things you just don't know or think about.

 

That can be from the way the factory rubber has compressed and expanded in the frame mount from one side to the other.
You can also move the motor atleast that much just by moving the rubber with a prybar.
I'm going to remove the shells from my 92 TPI motor that I took out and had never been out b4 me and have another look see.

 

Yes, I now see that you are correct - there are different part numbers for each side, even though -as you said - I can't see any difference either.

I switched engines too - but not the engine mounts/brackets. I'm using the ones that came with the car. I already verified that I have the correct part numbered clamshells on the proper side (if the thread I posted is correct). The mounts that are on the frame (with rubber inserts) are only a few years old - so there's no unusual sagging.

If I switch them contrary to what the thread I posted says....then I may just end up with the drivers side header hitting the steering shaft, and I don't want that to happen. The drivers side fits close, but clears everything as it is.

Does anyone have a shop manual to 100% verify that part number 14039436 belongs on the passenger (right) side as mine currently is??

 

Naw! I was then and still am using Poly motor mounts.

 

I just got off the phone with my GM parts guys.
The rubber part is the same left and right.
The motor mount shell parts do have a left and right part number. these maybe a updated number from older cars
R 14039436
L 10213125

That still doesnt explain why the part is built the same (on my car) but has different numbers. Even the bolts are put in the motor with one nut facing forward and one rearward like the mount was made 4 both sides.

Just for giggles I checked with GM about the block mounts on a 92 chevy truck, they both have the same number.

You can even move the poly in its mount. I have them in my car and done it.

 

So now you know what happens when you switch them around.

 

Ok guys n gals I'm going to eat a lil crow here, I just went out and looked again at all my mounts.
I kept looking at just one set of my 89 mounts. I have a few more in the attic to look at if I can find them.
Here is my findings.

89 formula 350 ttops
R 334970
L 334971
Mounts are the same L& R (makes sense)

VIN 20,000 cars later 89 formula 350 asc vert
R 14039436 taller
L 334971 shorter
Different mounts


92 formula 305 5speed
R 14039436 taller
L 334971 shorter
Different mounts

The left hand number the dealer gave me could be a new replacement number.

Different mounts for different options ?? or?? More new questions... like Y are some the same and some not? doesnt really make sense at all, then again GM doesn't either.

 

Wow- it's a real pain bending these fuel lines....I got the return line bent, and it'll be out of the way...Now....the bigger 3/8" supply will need even trickier bends.

At least they'll be out of the way when I'm done. I just can't see using steel braided hose or even worse rubber that close to the headers. Of course, I guess my coupler (where I'm connecting the old/new lines) could start leaking...I sure hope not!!

 

So I've been making steadyish progress, A little give and take here and there.. Hoever I ran into a problem on the passenger side. There is a coolant pipe hitting the header and causing the header not to be able to sit flush with the head. Has anyone else ran into this problem, and if so, what did you do to fix it? (Sorry about the picture link, but I'm on my phone and its the only way I could get it to work.)

http://oi41.tinypic.com/2jgjtx.jpg

 

Unbolt the water pipe and move it back as far as you can then drill a new hole and reinstall the bolt.
Not every car will have this problem. By the way, has your engine been out of the car?

 

No, as far as I know, the engine has never been out of the car. Why do you ask?

 

What he said, that works for most.

He was refering to the fact some people have switched the mounts around, causing fitment issues when the motor was out.

 

Don -

Have you heard of the passenger side headers hitting the fuel lines before?? I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by re-routing my lines.

As far as the engine mount discussion goes, I don't want to swap mine right?? As far as I can tell they are on the correct sides....Thanks in advance for any input on this Don.

 

your dr side maybe a bit taller than your left mount. either swap them or find 2 DR/left side mounts and run them.

 

Well, if that's what these headers are all about....swapping around engine mounts and altering your drive line as a result, I'd rather sell them than go through that. These "should" fit with mounts in thier correct orientation....at least that's the way they should have been designed to work.

I mean seriously, I'd have an easier time running LT headers, and fabricating the rest of the exhaust...I only bought these in an effort to help this engine breathe a little better with the blower. I know LT's will do that without altering driveline angles...

 

I see you have 9" in your car. Im guessing you have a adj panhard bar, and rear control arms also?
With just the 9" you have altered your driveline angles because the pinion hangs lower than a stock 10bolt.
Even with production tolerance stacking your driveline isnt perfect and needs to be checked if your going to play.

Swaping the mounts or even just using 2 lefts isn't that bad at all. Waaay better than the old days of headers!!
It sucks that GM has no rym or reason to using the mounts they did..... We have to work around that.

 

That is not the case. Even my SLP's are the same way. They are still good headers. You just happen to have a car with fuel line on the passenger side. You will still like the performance.

 

Yes, I have a Moser 9" installed. Also Lakewood LCA's, UMI torque arm and relocation bracket. No, I don't have any adjustable panhard bar since the rear sits centered.

I just answered my previous question anyways. I'm re-routing my last fuel line, so since I had it cut off and out of the way I decided to check if the header now fits - and it fits fine. Pretty close in a couple of areas, but should be OK...

I also decided to see if the Y-pipe will fit...and it doesn't..

I was actually more concerned about that than anything. NOTHING on this car is easy..period. The problem is that the part of the Y-pipe that tucks between the K frame and oil pan doesn't fit. I'm not running a stock pan for two reasons:

1. It's a 400 with the dipstick on the drivers side
2. It's not a normal stroke 400, so I needed a stroker pan.

I tried to run my stock pan before, and one of the counterweights on the crank scrapes against the upper side of the pan right at the mounting flange. I tried to make a dent in it to make it work, which resulted in a leaky pan in that area. Looks like I have several choices, none of which I like...

-Try to find another oil pan that'll support the stock Y-pipe AND have enough clearance for the crank. I've tried several, and this is the only pan I've found that works. Even if I found one, I'd have to change the pan with the engine in....if it's even possible??

-Have the Y-pipe modified to fit...what it basically needs is to be another inch to 1-1/2" longer on the ends that go into the ball flange on each header. That will put the pipe a little lower than the K frame, but it shouldn't be too low...

-Pull the 400 out, and install my original 305 with the stock pan...everything will fit and I'll lose at least 150 HP...even with the blower.

-Lose the shorties altogether, get LT's and a custom exhaust all the way to the bumper $$$....

I'll see if I can take some pics...maybe someone more knowledgible with these things will have some better ideas....

 

...and thanks for the pics VincentZ28....your headers look even closer than mine on the drivers side! You must have posted that while I was posting my dilemma above...

 

Yep!
Remember this, all shorty headers for 3gen will not work with most aftermarket oil pans.

 

Thru the years I have learned the definition of performance parts, and it is.... It doesn't fit. ..

I also have a 400 motor in my car with a canton 7qt stroker road race pan but I have longtubes and a tube Kmember. Had SLPs on it a long time ago and had no probs.

Its really crazy because the mount holes are only a half of a hole off between the "tall" and "short" mounts. its sooo little its not funny!

 

A few pics...sorry they're not very good...kinda hard to lie on your back and take them. This is with the crossover pipe pressed and touching both the pan and K frame:

Drivers header installed, passenger with just a couple bolts holding it on.

 

A few more:

 

most of the aftermarket crossover pipes I've seen hang down a lot between the crossmember and oil pan and are not tucked up as far as yours is.
I have a tryY header set from SLP and its waaay down. Which explains y its smashed up a bit..

 

That's why I said they were crappy pics...it LOOKS like it's tucked up in there because...IT IS...even with the crossover pipe against the pan itself, the ball socket flanges (connections to headers) don't quite connect...

 

SLP pipes are 2 1/4in. Dons are 2 1/2in.

 

Which motor mounts do you have?

 

Yeah, SLP was rather generous on their advertised sizes compared to what was delivered.
I have both of their headers 1" 3/4 and 1" 5/8s, guess what... they are both the same size tubing for both headers... nice huh ?

 

Don made a custom 2 3/4 for me.

 

my dyno dons shipped on thursday cant wait to get them, took about 2 weeks from start to finish of my order which i couldnt be more happy with, finally my 406 will be able to breathe

 

My y pipe also needed to be modified because like you, I have a non stock 7qt moroso pan. Another compounding issue I had were my lakewood subframe connectors. The bracing goes across right where the y pipe would tuck up. I just brought the car to an exhaust shop that I trust and they redid the y pipe to fit as good as possible. It hangs quite low after the y where it would have ordinarily tucked up, but overall, better clearance than I had with the LT hedmans.

 

Unfortunatly, they didn't leave a lot of room for exhaust on these cars.
Yes, I do tuck the pipes up close so they don't hang down where they would get smashed.

When using a different pan on these cars you have to plan ahead.
I also have a larger sump pan on mine, but I cut the sump back a little to make room for the larger exhaust.

It would be very difficult for me to try to accommodate all the pans out there.

 

Don - I didn't automatically think it would fit...I was hoping it would though since the Edelbrock Y-pipe fit. As I said above, it looks like if I extend the flanged pipe on each end maybe 3/4", the crossover pipe might barely clear without hitting and bolt up tight....do you think that would be tough to do??

There's a lot of welds there, and it's curved which makes it look tricky.

EDIT: another thought...is there some kind of "spacer" that could be put in between the two?? (the flange and ball)

 

Alright, so I'm sorry for so many questions, but this is the first time I've done headers on a car.


What bolts can I use for the collectors (bolting Downpipes to headers) are there special bolts or can I just use standard nuts and bolts?

Also, the little braces that attached from the manifolds to the Alternator and then from the Manifold to the AC. Can I leave them off, or do I need to attach them to something else? (Since they can't be attached to the headers)


Thank you in advance!

 

I would STRONGLY recommend you use those goofy deformed nuts. They're called different things, but they're basically all-metal lock nuts. Like this:



http://www.pacificfastenersinc.com/torque.htm

Vibration will NOT loosen these things up. They will stay in place until you take them off. They are what the factory used for a lot of your suspension parts.

You can use regular nuts if you like, but I got tired of losing collector bolts on my long tubes and went to those guys.

 

dellman83Z - I hear ya....it looks like I'll need some type of modding to mine too. If I would've known this very stockish looking pan I have would cause this many issues, I'd run a 7 quart pan to make it more worth all the modding....

I actually have a 120V MIG welder, with very little welding skills. I'm contemplating cutting off the flanged ends about an inch or so below to mod it myself...but there's no turning back after that.

 

Regular bolts will work, but the self locking nuts are the best.
Make a couple of spacers and use the original bolts for the brackets.
You definately need them for support.

 

Well Don, I was hoping you'd have some input on the above, but guess not. I'll figure it out, even if I need to have a whole new Y-pipe made.

 

Received my headers and y-pipe from Don yesterday. Used the gaskets and ARP bolts mentioned in this thread by Don and bolted them on to my engine which is on an engine stand at the moment. Fit and finish is excellent. So far extremely happy with my purchase.

 

I have a 7qt pan as well and with some very cleaver welding angles and "ovaling" the pipe between the pan and k-member I made it fit up there, things are tight that's for sure!!! but I did get it to fit, I have the edelcrap headers/y-pipe. I originally tried putting the pipe lower than the oil pan and what do you know with Ontario roads, first good dip that jounced the suspension it bottomed out HARD and put a nice dent in my oil pan, and this is with stock ride height so I would not recommend to anybody putting it lower than the K-Member. last thing you need is destroying the oil pan, puking all your oil out and realizing you need another forged rotating assembly ......

 

Wow...I'll definately try to avoid placing the Y-pipe that low. But I'm not running a 7 Qt. pan either.

I managed to re-route my fuel lines, and did a decent job if I say so myself. Now they are metal tubed, and far enough away from the heat so hopefully they'll be no heat soak issues.

I got the passenger header on too, and although it's a tight fit between one of the tubes and the frame, (all the shorties are) it seems to fit fine. Gotta watch out when you install those BERL (EARL'S) header gaskets...the graphite inserts fell out and I had to stick them back in.

Now the part I'm dreading...modifying the Y-pipe. I might try "ovalizing" the crossver as you mention...not a bad idea. Not sure if it'll put me close enough to cinching the pipes to the headers or not. If not, I guess it's back to plan "A"...cutting, adding sections and rewelding. I have a 120V MIG with flux core steel wire...I'm assuming that'll work OK.

I don't want to sacrifice any flow if I can help it since the blower can use all it can get.

 

I didn't have a completely new y pipe made. Essentially, just stretched it out some areas to fit the best. It's too good of a piece to just start over when some small changes can make it work.

 

Oh, I'm with ya on that. It is a nice piece, and I'll do everything possible to get it to work. Makes it sound so easy.."just streched out" lol....

I just keep thinking...if I had something like a 1" piece, one end has a flange, the other the ball socket....no welding needed..

 

You should post picture and show how they look with the spark plugs and wires on.

 

Here you go. I mocked up the wires last night. I've always preferred to run the wires under the headers to the back and then up to the distributor. I cant stand when you see wires straggling all over the place. Sometimes the wires that go up and then run down the valve cover can look nice if neatly done but I prefer mine almost hidden. So these are just very loosely mocked up, I just wanted to make sure all was going to fit. I'll need to get some looms or zip ties or something in order to put them into place how I want them but it looks like there wont be any issues at all as far as contacting header tubes.

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lets try that again

 

Are those custom made length plug wires or did they come that length?

 

They came that length.. They actually aren't as perfect as it looks in the pics, there is some extra length up top right now, it would be nice if they were a little shorter. Once I get them in place I think it will all work out just fine..

I was initially going to use MSD's and cut to the length I wanted but after some more research these Morosos are a much better wire. Less resistance, they are sleeved for extra heat resistance, just overall better construction. I could have done a cut to fit Moroso set but then have to purchase the heat sleeving on top of that as well.

 

I just now saw the picture.
Right where the pipe hits the pan is where I sectioned my pan.
I think that is your only answer.
I know that is a lot of work, but I don't think there is another fix.
That pan is just too long in the front.

 

Nice job, I ran mine that way too.
Good choice on the wires over MSD. (junk)