You call that "a little"? Looks they could be a goof 6" shorter & still be fine. You know which part # those are? Could you cut & shorten them?

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=39220

 

It is part # 73818. If you scroll down far enough you will see it. I know it looks awful up top now but its because I have them pulled so tight under the headers to go straight across. I plan to allow the front two cylinders swoop down lower on each bank as there is tons of room for it and in fact on my block there is wire holders down there already. It looks 1000 times better when I do it that way. My plastic wire holders down there were broken and brittle so I just had it pulled tight for the moment. Once you swoop them down, it looks almost perfect... I do agree though, it looks like Medusa's head up at the distributor cap right now.

 

Thanks for the reply Don, but ....I'll keep sectioning the pan in mind as a last resort. I know the pan "technically" can be removed with the engine still in it, but....that's a lot more work than trying to mod the Y-pipe I'd think. If the pan in that area was just a 1/2" shallower where the crossover runs under it, it would fit with no issues...it's that close.

 

i have a great exhaust guy down south here who could tackle a custom y-pipe if you can get a refund from him since his parts don't fit out of the box.

 

His parts does fit out the box. Just not intended for aftermarket oil pans. They were made with stock oil pans on the car.

 

then they should ask that before selling them, since issues are known to be present. Most people with a healthy sbc don't use a stock pan, they should have a moroso pan with a specific part number they fit then.

 

Well, I got a couple of pics of how it sits. I stuffed some folded up rags between the oil pan and K frame to maintain about 1/4" clearance and held the pipes in place with jacks.

Maybe I can use a recip saw and cut off the flanges about 2 inches below, bolt them to the headers and carefully make a spacer piece between the downpipe and flange. I cold tack weld them in place and then remove it, find someone with some great TIG welding skills and pay them to weld them in nice....pics below. You can see how close they are to fitting, about an inch or so shy on each side....which means they'll hang an inch lower than what they would have if I were still running my 305 in the car. Heck, my trans cross member will hang lower that the y-pipe will.

 

what kind of trans do you have? If there is room in the trans tunnel it's possible you could unbolt the trans from the mount and shim it upwards with some washers, and then re-set pinion angle to account for the change of angle at the transmission output. (assuming you have an adjustable torque arm) It might free up a little bit of space in between the crossmember and the pan

 

I don't think that would help me any since the Y crossover pipe runs in the "armpit" between the engine oil pan and engine frame.

 

.

 

I don't know of any aftermarket oil pan that will work with our factory style exhaust system unless it duplicates the factory oil pan. I have run aftermarket oil pans(Moroso 6 qt) but had them sectioned and re-welded for clearance in the area between the K-member and oil pan. I am now running a Canton oil pan similar to the one in the picture but mine was custom built knowing of the issues and needed clearance. Anytime you start straying away from the factory dimension one needs to on the lookout for problems. This is known as hot-rodding.

 

Thanks...now I know the true meaning of "hot-rodding". I actually used to think it meant something totally different. -I really don't know if you were trying to come off as arrogant by that comment - but you did.

Let me emphasize...I don't have a Canton oil pan. What I actually have is a stamped steel, replacement pan for a 400 SBC. It's a Summit pan -It has narrower rails on it to allow for stroker cranks. It holds 5 quarts of oil - nothing really special at all. Oh - it's galvanized to prevent rusting, and has a driver's side dip stick vice a passenger side like my original 305 had. Again, I'm not "Blaming" anyone for the Y-pipe not fitting, as I already mentioned in an earlier post. I know that's how it goes sometimes, and I know xpndbl3 does too since he has just a "couple" of mods...I mean.."hot-rodding" things done to his car.

Perhaps it should have been mentioned that the Y-pipe will only work with stock factory pans or modifications will need to be done. I think that was the only point that was being made, and I concur with that. I would have never bothered putting 3/4" primary tube headers on my original 305...5/8" is more than adequate for a 305. Don's headers and Y-pipe are a perfect match for a later model, 5.7 fuel injected Camaro.

 

Let me clarify my statement. What I should have said is " that is part of hot rodding". It happens to me all the time. I change one thing and it affects something else. So instead of having to change just one thing I now have to change two things to accomplish my goal. If that is arrogant so be it. I am just telling it the way I see it.

 

this is about the best i have seen it worded. with the limited space in these cars modifications are usually two fold. especially when it is custom at one end it is going to be at the other. this is the situation with all hot rods imo.

 

It's worded just fine now. All good.

Back to my personal dilemma, -I was going to begin cutting off the flanged ends of the Y-pipe to weld extension pieces in...but I'm beginning to have second thoughts on that route. I'm wondering...IF I can find a pan that will acommodate both a stroker crank AND Don's Y-pipe, I'd be golden.

Of course, I've never tried changing out a oil pan with the engine installed. It kinda looks like if get a jack and a block of wood under the balancer, unbolt it at the engine mounts - I could raise the engine up a few inches....which might give me enough room to change the pan out. I've never tried that...anyone done this??

And if anyone can recommend a stroker oil pan that will fit and allow this Y-pipe to fit, that would help out a lot!! It HAS to have a DS dip stick and notched out rails for a stroker though. I'm not looking for a "kicked-out" sump that might give me clearance issues anywhere else. I don't need trap doors, scrapers etc....unless the only pan that'll fit has them, then I'd deal with it. It can be deeper I think without much issue. So long as it's at least a 5 quart pan. Cost isn't an issue as much as fitment is.
Open to any help or ideas!!

EDIT: although removing my pan and having it sectioned and re-clearanced is a possibility, I'd be real concerned about the crank throws contacting it afterwards if not done perfectly....metal work and welding is not my strong suit..I'll admit that. Just getting another pan is the most direct fix in my mind.

 

i'd just pay to have the y-pipe sectioned and made to fit your pan. No way I'd swap pans or replace it in the chassis. If it's stainless my guy can do that as well, didn't read the thread enough to see if it is or not. Especially if you're not putting in a pan with better oil control like a moroso 6 quart.

 

Well, fact is, I kind of have myself backed into a corner. I have a front end that needs aligned (w/new wheels and tires), and shortie headers with no Y pipe. I don't have a big truck or a car trailer to just take it to a shop.

I guess I could whack off these flanges from the Y-pipe, make two extension pieces that fit nice, tack them in place just like I need them and take the Y-pipe in somewhere to have the extensions TIG welded up real nice.....then I'll have an exhaust so I could drive it a few miles to get the front end aligned....

 

If you drop that crossover down, I can almost guaranty you will smash it.
If I had a pan here I would section it and send it to you.
The only one I have is a one piece rear seal model with a right side dipstick.

The procedure to remove the pan is as follows:
remove the trans, remove the flywheel, remove the two bolts in the motor mounts, jack up the motor and put a 2x4 under each mount.
Take the bolts out of the pan, lower it down and drop the oil pump into it, turn the crank so the counterweights will clear and remove it.
If you send me the pan I will section it like mine for free.
I know that is a lot, but that's the best I can offer.

BTW: no header company mentions anything about pan clearance in their ads.

 

Wow...that's a bunch more than I was counting on to remove the pan. From there, it's not much of a stretch just to yank the entire engine really. I really appreciate your offer to help me out with this Don - and I just may take you up on this.

If I decide for sure to go this route, I'm pretty much thinking about yanking the whole thing out of the chassis....but If I do, I might as well upgrade to a pan with better oil control etc. like xpndbl3 says...after going through all that, it would just make sense. Man, this is soooo frustrating.....

I really wish someone made pan for my engine that accommidates a 3.75 stroke, has a drivers side dip stick and would still work with this Y-pipe. I've looked all over the net, and can't find ANYTHING definative at all. Looks like ANY of them would probably need to be sectioned.

Way I see it, I really only have 3 options:

1. Section the Y-pipe (or have a new one made), and hope I don't bottom out and ruin it. (I just put lowering springs/Bilsteins on it too)

2. Yank the engine a send Don the oil pan to be sectioned so the Y-pipe will clear.

3. Take my rebuilt 305 off the stand that it's been sitting on for 4 years and drop that in with the blower...but it's a stock crank, hyper pistons....AND no way it'll run near as hard as the 400...

I guess there is a 4th option....but I'll lose too much $$ on that one...

 

I vote for option 2.

 

Well, I've yanked the engine in/out of this car AT LEAST 6 times, and most of those times were solo since I've had it, so it's not like I've never done it before. It's never fun though.

BUT - I want to get this done the right way, mainly so I won't need to do this in the next 5 years or so - I hope. I generally enjoy working on cars, but the older I get the less I can take of jumping in/out from under the car. My knees and back are pretty much shot, so it's getting to be a painful experience. Maybe when I win the lottery or something, I can buy a car lift....till then it's only jackstands for me...

Don - I don't know how often you frequent the board, but I'll PM you. I'm not positive if I'm going to re-use this pan, or just buy a better one and have it sent to you. I'll let you know in the next couple of days...

 

Save some money and have the pan you have on hand sent to Don for the modification. It's not that big of a deal, the modification that is. I have done this in the past a couple of times.

 

Not bad....got the drive shaft out, the torque arm, the shifter, the trans, bell housing, starter, clutch and flywheel all off the car in a little less than 3-1/2 hours. I'm getting pretty good at this. (I've done it a few times)

Gotta go to my buddy's house tomorrow and get his cherry picker, and if I hear from Don, I should have the oil pan out and in the mail Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

 

What's the status?

 

I'm ready to lift the engine up...should have a pic of the pan sent to you within the next couple of days.

 

UPDATE:

I got the engine jacked up with 2x4's sideways between the clamshells and frame mounts. Engine is a good 5 inches above the crossmember. One thing I didn't think too much about is how to support the rear of the engine...I ended up shoving more 2x4's between the upper bell housing flange and the firewall. Kind of precarious, but it worked.

Got the oil pan off, did not even need to remove the oil pump with it I had so much room. I took pics of all sides of the pan, as well as the original 305HO pan (for comparison):

 

Passenger side and inside the pan:

 

Here is where it needs to be modded:

 

Yeah, I think it needs to be moved back a tad, but I also believe it needs to be "shallower" in about the same area since I'm about 3/4" from being able to bolt up to the flanges on each side. So if you raised that top horizontal line on your pic, it'd be close.

You'll see once you recieve it and match it up to a thirdgen pan...shipped it today.

 

I see that a lot of people like Dyno Don headers.
Can anybody tell me if there are difference in performance between Dyno Don Headers and long tube headers?

I bought Scoggin Dickeys 350 TPI crate engine with 360hp so I want performance headers.
I will install true dual exhaust but in stock location because ground clearance is very important to me that's why I prefer shorties.

 

There's only about 2-3hp difference. Your not making a lot of HP nor you're going to be doing a lot of racing in the 10sec or less club to get the true benefits of duals. Besides after all the bends of the pipes it would be less benefits to run true duals. Also you are paying more for pipes. A true duals exhaust is two pipes running straight to the back of the car with less bends as possible.

I don't know why people here are trying to make a 3gen car sound like the first and 2nd gen car by trying to run duals.

 

In my case it's not about the sound I want better flow.
Any advice for headers?

 

Duo Dons are the best way to go.

 

You guys have it easy! Look what guys used to have to do for 3rdgen headers to fit. Pull motor, oilpan, mod pan, install pan and headers then install engine!!

 

On a street car with a full exhaust system and muffler, there really isnt much difference between shorty headers and full length headers. Long tubes shine when they're wide open on a race track with no exhaust system after them. Shorty headers are great for street cars because they tuck up better so you keep your ground clearance, and they work with any transmission.

 

I read an article in Street Rodder Magazine once that compared true duals to a single 3" system. This was done on an A body car, so the duals were nice and straight, with and without X pipe.

The dyno really couldn't see a difference. Seat of the pants driving tells me the same thing. Unless its a full blown race car, these type of 1 3/4 shorty headers are as good as it gets. I made some serious "seat of the pants" improvement in power once upon a time with a set of 1 3/4" SLP headers, and it seems these are at least as good as those were, if not better.

Put these on with a good flowing cat back system and never look back!

 

It's a street car so I'll go with shorties.
Vincent you thought Dyno Don?

 

This is from another thread (that kinda turned ugly), but can someone verify this quote? I don't mind spending good money on headers that can be used with different iterations of an engine from stock to LT1 to an assortment of aftermarket heads. Who knows what the future of my pocketbook holds.

 

Ive noticed basically everyone who buys dons headers have huge *** big blocks, or really fixed up 350's. I have a 305, stock with a bigger edelbrock intake manifold, a 550cfm carburetor, and all new high performance bolt ons. No turbo or anything like that. Id like to put out as much horsepower as possible without going bigger. With this being said, would it be a good idea for me to go with Dyno dons headers, having basically a stock motor? He only makes headers with the 1 3/4, so i was wondering if that would be the right size for my motor.

 

I answered your PM.

My headers are just fine for a late 305. they do have the 350 cam.

My Y-pipe is also available in an aluminized version now.

 

I ran my car at the track this weekend, the only real change since the last time i ran was that I added Dyno Dons headers and dual Y-pipe. I dropped 1.1 seconds and gained 6mph. Went from a 15.3 @ 92mph to a 14.2 @ 98mph. I Dyno'd my LB9 at 215hp earlier this year with his headers, SLP loudmouth 2, underdrive pullies, and 50 psi fuel pressure. 11* base timing.

 

Nice results. That is a large jump in power.

 

We tried to tell people on here that Dyno Dons headers work. The best shorties around. Second is SLP's.

 

Very subjective results. We have no idea which manifolds you had, what age & what condition of which converter you had before, what converter/converters (if you had 1/2/no converter(s) or compared to 1/2/no converter)s) you had afterwards). Certainly not an apples to apples comparison with the lack of comparison data that you provided in your test "results". And what changes did you make between the last run & this one, regardless of how big or small you think they were, should be included in the report.

 

I added M/T ET drags, LCARB's, Koni yellows bumped fuel pressure from 48 psi to 50psi, went from 6* to 11* base timing. Previously I had stock manifolds and factory N10 dual cats, on Nitto NT555's and KYB gas adjust dampers. No other changes other than the oil, which is still the same brand and weight, Mobil1 XR-1 synthetic 5w30. Race weight of just under 3,300lbs.

Sure a little bit of the ET can be attributed to the slicks and LCARB's but I still only got a 2.1 60' so that wasn't much of a factor. The real indicator to an increase in power is mph. No matter how you launch, the mph will usually be very consistent, especially with this slow of a car. A 6mph increase is a huge jump no matter how you look at it. I always run at the same track (PIR) in nearly the same conditions. Approximately mid 50* weather, no head or tail wind, around 9pm or so after the sun goes down, that way the track temp is consistant. Humidity under 50%, and there's never fresh VHT on my runs. I work for the drag strip so I am 100% sure that the track and air conditions are consistent before I decide to make any runs.

 

Woah-woah-woah....stop riiiiight their... DRs, suspension stuff...expensive SP stuff at that and the best you can do is a 2.1. NOOOOOO....my bone stock L98 car with -original stock- SP parts and street tires does that. Something is wrong their............

 

His car is a LB9(305). So not too bad for a 305 for the times posted.

 

Yes something is wrong there. I have a T-5 and I'm afraid to break it, or my diff for that matter. Also all my suspension has been modifed in the name of handling rather than for drag racing, I autocross this car. So I have 800lb/200 lb springs and 36/24 sway bars. On top of that my car is lowered over 3" so even with these LCARB's i still dont have enough antisquat. I'm sure I could see 13's if and when I can get this car to do a 1.8-1.9 60'.

 

I just had 1 3/4 SLP headers with a dual 2 1/2in cats and 3in catback exhaust with. Maxi flow Hooker Muffler. It ran 13.3@104mph. The original 350(245fwhp)engine had 198,000 miles on it. So it is possible for a 305 to do it.