I have new headers that still have the flat black paint on them. Should I let the paint burn off and then wrap them, or can I wrap them before the paint is burned off? The headers are shorties, so I'm not really concerned with having to remove them to wrap them.

 

I'd avoid wrapping them at all.

 

I know that wrapping voids the warranty. I am unconcerned with that. Please answer the question.

 

If you wrap them they will become junk in a short period of time.
Listen to the the man

 

/sigh... Not to sounds like a complete douche-bag, but I'd appreciate it if you could link examples as to why not. Aside from not actually answering the question, you could at least send me to facts rather than "because" and "just listen to him".

 

header wrap has a tendency to trap any and all moisture, making the headers rust and rot 10 times faster than non wrapped headers. high temp header paint will not only look better, but keep your headers around for a good long while (as long as you properly cure the paint).

 

ive had great results with header wrap to reduce temps underhood & on street bikes. make sure to use the silicone coating/paint. this will help keep out moisture. but the advise above is all true. it will void your warranty & they will rot out quicker. i wrap right over the painted headers. dont breathe in the smoke!

 

Show me the data Don. I'm tire of hearing people say this. I've got pictures to prove this is a myth.

Below are pix of my old edelbrock TES headers that I had on my IROC wrapped for 5 years. I sandblasted them and painted them, then wrapped them over the paint. I ran the car in all seasons except winter for 5 years, about 40k miles. These are pix of when I sold them. I unwrapped them to see what shape they were in. I'll let the pix speak for themselves. There was not a crack or blemish on these headers. Stop the myths, header wrap is fine. PROVE that wrap damages the headers or stop perpetuating bad info.

 

Nice. What kind of header paint did you use? I know there is some at autozone, but what would your recommendation be?

 

I painted and wrapped those more than 10 years ago. I don't know for sure which paint I used. To be clear, the headers in the picture are bare metal. The paint is completely gone. I'm guessing that I used the 500* stuff and should have used the 1200* stuff. At any rate, the point is that header wrap does not trap in moisture and make the headers rot. I washed my engine bay frequently and drove the car in the rain. It was stored in an unheated garage in the winter and started about once per month. The headers get hot enough to boil off any moisture that is present. They always stay bone dry while at temperature. During storage I think the wrap actually helps protect the metal from moisture. These were in better shape after wrapping them than they were after I ran them painted for 3 years. I always hear people say header wrap is bad but no one can post a picture proving that it is bad. Hopefully the rumors can be put to rest.

 

meanz, thanks for the pics. I'll be wrapping.

 

Looks like Ill be wrapping mine too.

 

I bought the 2460 shorty headers painted black, i didn't want the paint to burn off in a day then see them rust. I went and bought the header wrap at advance auto which was that titanium one, looked goldish. It did give the headers a neat look, but when i took the car to a performance shop to have the engine and cam break in is when my bad luck kicked in. I guess in the process with all the fluids getting changed some got on the header wrap. After about 20 min of the engine running it caught fire and melted two plug wires. Be careful because those things are flammable.

 

Ok.....look closely at the material.
Here you go:

 

clearly those headers were not on a street car. They were on some type of oval track car maybe? How lean was it running? Not enough timing? Those headers look to me like they would have been wasted regardless of header wrap. Either way, street cars don't see the constant extreme exhaust temp that that application has clearly seen. Show me a set of normal street car headers that have had that type of failure.

 

I think that the region also makes a huge difference. For example, I live in So Cal. Our average annual rainfall is about 2.8 inches which is not very much at all. But for Seattle I would expect a fair amount of damage considering that the annual rain fall is about 33.3 inches. In other regions of the country where salts are used to melt snow, well that pretty much explains the amount of damage to a vehicles metal. So I believe that the severity and or the length of time to notice any damaging rust depends on the where you live and how you care for the car. I myself likes to hot pressure wash my engine compartment a few times a year. But I haven't installed my headers yet.

 

i think the thickness & type of metal used also has a big influence. BBQ grill paint works pretty good for painting.

 

I would have to challenge your claim redneckjoe. Ive boughten a few BBQ grills since I got out of the US ARMY back in 2004. Every grill that Ive owned has had the black paint blister and eventually peel away. With that said, BBQ IMHO is not a suitable paint. Besides, a flame inside the grill doesn't get as hot as a exhaust header.

 

From the inside out, as I'd expect with header wrap.

 

huh?

 

no paint is ever gonna last on headers anyway. LOL.

 

Increased heat causes an increase in the rate of heat erosion, which thins the walls from the inside out. Paint on the outside doesn't do anything for that.

 

I can agree with you 100%.

 

WHAT!!!! Ive never heard of heat erosion before. Time to google "heat erosion".

 

back in the early '90s,when i first put headers on my
car,i wrapped them because i wanted to protect some
brake lines and other parts i didn't want to get overly
hot.The headers got too hot around the collectors under
the wrap and burned through in a little over a year...
They were just cheap mild steel headers-cyclone IIRC
Replaced those with S.S. SLP headers,wrapped those too
and no problems with burnout on the stainless steel
headers I would avoid wrapping mild steel headers,
but wrapping quality stainless steel ones should be ok.

 

Here is the car....

DD car.

 

What about the Edelbrock TES exhaust system? Is it a good quality metal?

 

I had a set of shorty headers that were wrapped and I had them on the car for about 10 years and when I pulled the wrap off when I went with a different set of headers, they were still in great shape, now granted, I didn't drive my car in any weather since it is my hot rod and hasn't seen rain in many years and is never driven in any inclement weather. Though that may not be what you are looking for when it comes to use, I didn't have any heat related fatigue or cracks when I took those headers off. I am planning on wrapping the headers that are on the car now to take some of the excess heat out of the engine compartment. These cars really lack air flow through the engine compartment for sure and when I had wrapped headers before, it made a difference. I will also paint them with the high temp silicone paint that is recommended to use. Just my 2 cents worth..

 

It is just not trapped moisture that lessens the life of wrapped headers. By trapping most of the heat you are continually heat treating the steel and it becomes a little more brittle each time. Then guess what moisture does to this weakened, brittle steel? Please read up on how foundries treat steel to produce a harder material and what happens when the process deviates from the temperature perameters. And no, I'm not gonna point you to the info, do a search and learn on your own. This heat treating is exactly why the manufacturers void the warranty if their headers are wrapped.
That is why headers manufactured from a better material, stainless or are coated will last longer when wrapped, the heat does not have direct contact with the base steel.
Now, is each batch of raw steel exactly the same? No. One batch will have a higher carbon content then one say made the week before. Some of us get lucky and have headers made from a better manufactured steel then the next guy, even though they both bought the same brand.
Now all of us will draw our own conclusions and do what we want anyway. If you do wrap your headers, buy yourself a little insurance and coat or paint your headers before you wrap them. Also spend the extra and water proof your wrap. That stuff absorbs moisture and oil and will burn like a wick.
That said, Dyno Dons been racing since before I was born, and even has a speed record, and has seen it all and tried it all. I would take his advise before any other.

 

Sounds like this guy doesnt know the meaning of the messageboard. I thought the messageboard was to give advice and help out other members in need.

 

if he wraps them in a few months all he will have left is wrap

 

just a question ,but the engineers who designed them all say not to wrap them.every brand.across the board,says it voids their warranty.what gives????

 

Why even bother posting this? If you're not gonna help answer the OP's question, why comment?

I wrapped my headers (hooker 2055's) as soon as i got them with all the paint still on them, and have absolutely zero complaints so far. You'll be fine wrapping them over the paint.

 

So, all you guys know more about headers than Don?

 

I have wrapped mine headers, it has just been on for 1 year. So i dont know about the rust, but it keeps away A LOT of the heat. Which i wanted.

 

Don may be the most experienced and smartest man on this board (I don't know) - does not mean he has all the experience in the world and no one else has any. No offense meant Don.

I have been building cars since 1979. I have wrapped at least 3 sets of headers on street cars (400 hp give or take). I saw no effects from wrapping them what-so-ever. The under hood temps being lower is a big plus and hot exhaust flows faster.

I did see a difference in quality of wrap - some lasts quite well and some did not and had to maintain the wrap more often. The wrap that did not last was from an industrial supply. I used it because it was cheaper and should have been good quality.

I would not wrap steel headers where salt is on roads - but I am in TX. Other than that every time I drive my car the engine is running until I pull back into my driveway. At the temps they are at I can assure you they are dry. My cars are all daily drivers. They stay relatively dry. I'm sure they will be damp in the rain if the car is sitting and the rain splashes. Again - no problems in my experience.

That said the next set I wrap may fall apart 6 months later. Not an extinction level event. If you have the money get SS or ceramic coated.

 

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/news/7

 

There are lots of experienced/excellent hot rodders on here. But, when it comes to exhausts in general and headers specifically, then, yes. No one else here has his expertise.

 

And THIS from a company that sells that crap.....
Surely you are smarter than that.

Take another look at the picture in post #14

 

And look at post #8. Don't take it personally, my post was not meant as an attack. You needn't attack my intelligence. BUT, you are correct it comes from a company that sells it so it is suspect. Take it with a grain of salt as I do EVERYTHING I read or see on tv or read here for that matter. If the data doesn't add up I have to look at whats there.

But also in their page they mention there are some problems, don't wrap it too thick and quality of the steel does come into play also I believe I read where heat comes into play also - only use on naturally aspirated engines. May have read that somewhere else but I'm not re-reading it.

You obviously had issues with the headers being wrapped - and from the pic it looks like that was the problem. I am not saying it can't happen. I'll go so far as to say it could happen, what, 50% of the time? Give or take? Which is one hell of a lot but it wouldn't surprise me at all (EDIT: didn't finish my thought here) with the quality of steel and workmanship these days. The last set I wrapped was about 12 - 15 years ago?

But it does not happen all the time. Why not? Is the wrapping the right thickness? Is the metal better? I can tell you from welding a lot, the metal in the last 10 years or so has gone down in quality due to a large amount coming from Mexico with China sucking up all they can get.

I had a factory header crack badly in two places at one year old and it was not wrapped. I bought the vehicle new. The headers were recalled. Poor quality or design is everywhere.

One set of headers falling apart does not make an absolute. Yes there are many more but the data is not showing on this page. Even what I posted as you pointed out is meaningless without real world test cases. I have wrapped three and they did not fall apart and showed no visible signs of deterioration. I don't know what more you want.

People in this thread can forget what I wrote or not. I give no advice on this subject, just my experiences. I even said the next set I wrap may fall to pieces.

My headers, three sets, did not become junk in a short period of time. Good day.

 

Did you just say that the quality of metal has gone down because some of it comes from Mexico? That's insulting. I have family in Mexicali, Mexico. Not to mention I'm a Chicano.
The clothes on your back is probably sewn outside the US. But does that lower the quality of the material or the workmanship? Just saying.

 

I said it and the people at the place selling it said it too. My clothes are fine. BTW my wife is Vietnamese and I wouldn't. Buy much from there either. So take your racist crap elsewhere.

But to relate this back to headers. The Chinese bought the premium steel from us, mex, and Canada at a premium price. Steel distributors here could have bought premium also, yes from mexico too,but tried to keep their costs/prices down. So they bought lower gradesteel from where? The place with lower prices.

Now in comes header makers knowing in this economy they cant raise prices, so what do they buy? You guessed it, cheaper steel. Works fine under most circumstances. That is just business. If you called every header manufacturer they would all, everyone, tell you they use the finest steel mixed and blended by the finest godesses from across the globe... yea right. And what needs better steel, bridges, dams, and skyscrapers, or headers?

Has nothing to do with mexico other than they have cheap labor so cheaper productsand are close enough so that logistics doesn't,t raise the price too high.

 

No racial content intended. My appologies if you took it that way. But even if the steel was imported from out of the country, doesnt the steal manufacture process the metal further to remove impurities? I fully understand that a huge chunk of goods here in the country are imported from other countries, especially Mexico due to NAFTA, but I would imagine that during the manufacturing of the headers undergo a quality control test under harsh artificial conditions. Unless there is a person here on the boards that works in the factory where these headers are made, we can only assume that no matter what anyone says, word of mouth seems to speak volumes. For example, if someone from Colorado uses wrap and drives in the snow, you bet the headers will deteriorate extremely quickly because of the road salts. But if you live where I live in SoCal, then someone with wrap would experience a longer lifetime. Here in the Imperial Valley, we only experience an average of 2 inches of rain per year. With that said, I believe that my headers would last longer. But then agian, I never heard of heat erosion until I joined this thread.

 

What I bought was finished product. Cheaper to make angle there and ship it.

The only point worth mentioning is just what you said different people are getting different results with the wrap - roll the bones.

 

so you wrapped non high temp painted headers before burning them off and it's okay to wrap them before you burn the paint