I'm still confused why you say it needs an auto..?

 

in a heavy vehicle, a standard transmission does little for performance, and does alot of breaking things.

adam

 

Not sure where you get that from, i used to own a few 4x4s and would rather have a manual over an auto one very good reason, controlabilty, Manuals for 4x4s is alot better then an auto is speicaly for offroading.
The fact you said it does little for performance is laughable

 

sure a standard trans will break everything if all you do is dump the clutch. An auto would also break the same things if you neutral shifted it.

 

I'd almost disagree with that statment. I have better luck with a manually shifted auto while offroading. No need to slip the clutch and burn it up or anything when try to cral slowly over **** or pull through trees.

However I think the opinion that it has to be an auto for the AWD 3rdgen is just that; an opinion. There are lots of AWD heavy cars out there. The 3000gt is a behemouth. Same, sometimes more than our cars.

 

true, but sayin it has to be an auto is far from the truth, manual would be just fine. If hed "preffer" an auto then thats what he should have said

As for burnin up clutchs, thats whats low gearin is for

 

granted that is MY opinion, but in this case guys, you arent thinkinig clearly.

if you are building this car to RACE, then the 60' is the point of the AWD system. if you put a manual in there, you will break more stuff, than if you were to put a nice auto w/ a good convertor in there.

that is a fact.

as to your post about off roading, i have done a fair share in a few different vehicles, and IMO, if i were building a vehicle for off roading, it would be an auto, because they dont shock the tires as much as a standard, and for traction, that is really what you want.


dont listen to me i dont know what i am talking about...:lala:

 

then why stick a manual in AWD eclipes and Asto vans?

If you know how to drive a manual, then it will be just fine

 

I'm not going to scan back through this whole post but I didn't think I saw anything about it being a pure race car. Besides, you said it HAD to be an auto. Most everyone who knows anything about drag racing knows that a properly built auto will ALWAYS give a more consistenant 60'

I want a car for fun, not for getting the best time, everytime. But that's just me. So I'd want to row through the gears. In which case I'd put a manual in it. Either way, AWD vs RWD is a moot point in a RACE car because a properly set up rwd race car will close to the same ET as an AWD car.

 

why on earth would you want a manual gear box in a heavy AWD vehicle?

talons are different, they dont have automatics that can hold power, and they are alot lighter.

you dont seem to understand logic and reason.

if you want a car to go row the gears in, keep it rear wheel drive.

if you want a car to annhilate people on street tires, AWD and an auto is a very good way to go.

i am through with this, i have lost intelligence from your lack of understanding(or lack of listening).

 

Lack of understanding maybe. I don't understand why you are obsessed with our cars being so "heavy." Even my car, a vert only weighs in at around 3500lbs right now. My friends NA FWD eclipse without all the extra weight of rear drivetrain and crap only weighs alittle under 3k. That's not that big of a difference. Besides; have you ever seen the weights of the fatass 3000gt? In most cases it weighes more than mine! And it could be had with a manula and AWD.

I fail to understand you being so stuck on a "heavy" car being pointless with a stick and awd?

I never said it would be a bad idea to have an auto. I just wouldn't do it. I'd be happy to pass up alittle consistancy for some fun. I would like to understand why you're so against the stick idea....? You keep talking about me not understanding logic and reason but you haven't given me any, just an bland vague opinion...

 

let me spell it out, our cars weigh in the area of 3500lbs,
the front differential and axles, etc. is easily another 200lbs.

3700lbs is a heavy car, now think about it, if you have a standard transmission, to really take advantage of the AWD system, you would have to launch the **** out of it, like the DSM guys do, but when that happens, since our cars weigh so much more, things break.

axles, joints, transfer cases, transmissions, every lb. extra that you try and accellerate from a stop is wear and tear on these parts.

you wont just be giving up consistency, you will be giving up longevity, performance, both from a dig and up top, because now, if you have a standard, then you also have a few hundred lbs of useless mass, that you wouldnt have had if you left it RWD.


basically, you can do whatever the hell you want, but it doesnt make sense to put a standard in an AWD car.

think about it, why are all the lingenfelter pickups autos? and the sy/ty's? you mention a 5 speed astro that is AWD, but i have NEVER seen one.

it's called pissing into the wind. you should get acquainted with that term.

 

I'm going to keep bringing this up until you address it. Mitsush*tty 3000gt. Those are heavy, turbo AND AWD. As ALL AWD cars are launched way up high to get the best time.

Are you thinking that because a 3200lbs AWD turbo DSM has 500lbs less than a converted "heavy" f-body that the DSM isn't going to break parts? I'm no expert, but to my knowledge the tranny is the weak link in the DSM cars, as are most AWD manuals. WRXs are another example.

Longevity is a moot point. It's a purpose built performance car. I'd be changing crap out almost everyday, even with it being a daily driver.

You say the stick carries a few extra hundred pounds? Only the t56 weighs in even close to an auto. Almost all others weigh significantly less.

Where did the truck argument come in? I have no information on ligenfelter trucks. Who cares? They're trucks. That's a whole different aspect to performance.

I don't know why but i'd speculate that Sy/tys are autos because the sh*tty transmissions. The only decent ones back then were the zf6 and that would've been quite a retrofit when they could just slap a slushbox behind the 4.3 to sap power from it.

AWD astro? What? Again, who cares it's a VAN.

Bottom line, we both have our opinions. I'm just trying to figure out why you think sticks aren't compatible with a high performance AWD f-body.

 

you dont listen very well, my opinion on the easiest AWD retrofit on a thirdgen would BE THE SYTY stuff. so there is your trucks are irrelevant argument up your ***.

the 3000gt's are a joke, i cant count how many i have seen make tons of power and never turn good times for more than a few laps.

you are a liar if you are saying that you dont hate breaking **** on your car.

i never said that the t56 was heavier than a slushbox, i said that trying to move that much weight from a stop is going to break ****, and you are acting like it's not.

you are a fool, my opinion is that, but you dont even reason yours out, it's different just so you can say it is.

yes, i am aware that the dsm's break alot, and you think that that isn't related? the way you have to drive a standard transmission AWD vehicle to get respectable performance is very hard on parts, ex.... 3000GT's that break on the second launch after overhaul, or the DSM's that cant stay together for more than 3 months on a tranny or set of axles.

 

Calm down. No one is insulting you. I'm trying to have a discussion. No where before have you mentioned "easiest" retrofit. It probably would be easiest. Only because the 700r has had t-cases sitting on it for decades. It wouldn't be difficult however to mount another t-case on a t56 (seen it done in a jacked up yota truck).

Parts wise I'm sure the sy/ty stuff would be the best to use. Only when it comes to the front suspension. Custom drivelines would already have to be made so if it were my project I'd look into a bravada t-case or an older np203. But then again I don't know **** about t-cases, that would just be where I'd start my research.

Laps? Wait, are we talking track times or ETs? Anyways, they never turn good times because they weren't designed to go fast down the quarter mile. They were designed to be a high comfort, high power touring car. I just used it as an example because it's a heavy AWD manual car.

I never said I don't hate sh*t breaking on my car. However with how much I'd tuning and modifying my ****pile I wouldn't mind having to swap out a tranny/front diff/u-joints to find exactly what I can and can't do with it.

I also never said that moving that much weight won't break anything. It'll break just as much launching on slicks with a stick as with an auto. If you're pushing enough power to have to worry about breaking sh*t every launch it doesn't matter WHAT you're launching with.

Well whatever, you'll build your car your way and I'll build it mine. That's what makes this hobby great, different opinions. It was interesting arguing with you, I've got to work in the morning.

 

you are WRONG about one thing, if you take a 700hp car, and put it on slicks with good suspension, i gaurantee that you will break more stuff with a standard than an auto. it shocks the entire car ALOT harder, because the car goes from no load to full load.

with an auto, you can load the engine against the converter and then the suspension already has the slack taken out of it, so you arent putting nearly the strain on the car.




adam

 

do you guys not know what the purpose of a clutch is.

 

Obviously he doesn't, or at least the idea of slipping a clutch.

 

but then you dont get all the performance that the AWD offers, and you are just "PISSING INTO THE WIND".

forget it, i'm done with this. the car doesnt even exist.

 

Well you're the one that's afraid to break parts. I'm just trying to give you a solution to your "waaaa if I launch hard it will break an axle" I'd have no problem dumping the clutch at 5.5k to get every little bit out of that particular launch.

 

The AWD Mistu drivetrain can never be as strong as a thirdgens.

Take the wieght of the motor,trans,rear end...and a whole bunch of other stuff off of the thirdgen......then add a 3.0 turbo V6,auto or std transmission, AWD suspension, ect....

The added wieght would be questionable.

The wieght of 3si cars is in the unibody structure and the interior. The motor and suspension doesn't wiegh alot by itself.

Yes, it would be a mitsh!!tty or whatever, but the car would appear to be stock hieght and may not be too hard to build. It even has 5 lug rims, so a nice set of aftermarket 5 stars would look right at home on it. The rear exaust may not fit the same, but if it did, the tips look similar to something that a thirdgen might have.

The OP, stated that he was up for war, so I never thought he'd have a problem doing some major chopping of two cars. You would have to be very careful in reassembling the suspension to retain the correct geometry and it might not work that good anyways. The only possible advantage is fully funtional ECS, which happens to work very well in the 3KGT...if it comes with it.

I bet this frankensteinmobile would not be much heavier than a thirdgen already is.

 

I would choose automatic simply to avoid messing with the shift linkages, my car is auto, so I don't know what the 5 speed linkage looks like.

 

I saw it mentioned about the Syclone/Typhoon setup...which could quite possibly work to have an AWD thirdgen with a lot of fabbing. However...who has a junked Typhoon around? So what I was thinking is why not use the AWD setup from an Old's Bravada...essentially the same as a Typhoon but with four doors and no cool turbo drivetrain...however possibly more abundant.

 

i think i can hear the theme from deliverance playing in the background

4wd thirdgen JUST SAY NO !

 

i am talking about AWD.

just say Fu<k you.

 

Well... this is a link to another post i have... It's on it's way to being 4x4, even though it doesn't look like the front is hooked up. Please don't do this to yours! lol although I do like the idea of AWD.

4x4 Firebird

 

Look since the guy originally said money is not an option, you build a chromolly tubular chassis, this takes care of the weight issue. Then you pick a front drive setup that will work, use the steering knuckles and fab your own control arms and front crossmember/engine mounting system. Dry sump oiling (shorter oil pan). Vette type tubular IRS. Then attach the body shell to the frame, with some type of short plenum intake the hood should not have to be raised to much. Then you have a light awd car that i think would be just bad a$$.

Just my two cents.

 

Here is the ultimate 4x4 third gen. I saw it in Wisconsin last week

 

well now thats .......different?

 

AWD cars quite often start out as front drivers, so locating the front drive is already a done deal. Getting power to the back is easy.

Getting power to the front of a reardrive car is trickier. (The AWD Porsche 911 has the motor in the back, essentially a FWD system backwards, and runs a driveshaft forward.) If you could somehow run the power forward again from the tranny, ie. belts or another drive shaft, to half shafts in the front, then you might have a functioning performance awd system. Otherwise, you have a truck with a third gen body, which does nothing to dispell the notion that we are all bumpkins.

Now, if you really want to jack up your nice low sleek sports car onto a monster truck frame, no one can stop you. Forget about beating other people at stoplights, you can crush them like beer cans!

 

I think if you go out and find an old firebird or camaro cheap that's in kinda rough condition, for example, driven for years in these stupid canadian winters, ten why not make it into a 4x4? As long as you have the fun, fast car to drive in the summer!!!!

 

That wouldn't be so bad, but 4Xing a nice Thirdgen would be a crime. Also, I agree, Canadian winters are tough. I live in California now! (I'm American, but I lived in Canada off and on growing up, and I still visit. Great country, in fact, was thinking about driving my So Cal Bird up there to visit my friends...)

 

couldnt agree more if your going to 4x4 a camaro or firebird make sure its a beater ....not a good looking running driving car....thats just a crime