ive been looking into some welders lately, but before i made my desicion on one i would like to get the experts opinions first. I will mainly be using a welder for welding sheet metal, tubing, suspension modifications, etc. So what would be a good size welder for my needs? any particular brands you guys like more than others? mig or tig or both?

 

o and i forgot to add, im 17 with a part time job so i need something within my pricerange

 

Carlover1,

I'll double-check with my mechanics at work. They are all great welders. They have been teaching me to weld "a little" and I have found that the MIG (Wire in the Gun) is the easiest for ME to use and not screw up anything. The TIG takes some real know how and a good bit of experience (I've had no luck with this). Stick welders may be the cheapest but you need many different kinds of rods for different applications. The MIG requires gas we use either 75/25 or 100% Argon depending on the application. That would be tough for a privateer to get regular gas delivery from a welding supply house.

We paid $1700 for our mig welder last year. That's probably a bit much for a guy with a part time job. Have you thought about a rental center?

Brand Name.....It seems the guys like either one of two brands Lincoln or Miller. Six of my Seven Mechanics would take a Miller over a Lincoln anyday.

P.S. Whatever you choose, if you get something other than a little portable you're gonna need to supply 220 or better to it! Thought about that?

Sincerely
Kurt

 

Tig is not what you want to jump into welding it takes time and a ton of practice to figure out.

Get a miller or hobart imo they are the best machines i have dealt with you can get a hobart handler 135 for about 400 or so and will be great for your application it still takes some time and practice to figure out but is the easiest to learn

 

Yea i figured mig would be the best for me. ive also tried to tig but i just cant get the hang of it (yet). I can get gas for a welder no problem.

What do you mean by a supply of 220 or more, the plugin?

If i could afford a miller i would buy one ( since i live in the town where they make them )

I'm definently not getting another campell hausfield LOL

thanks for your help. btw ive been following your progress on your car since youve joined

 

irocbirdbuilder,

My friend has a Hobart and it is a very good welder thus far. Where can you get one for 400 bucks though? His was about a grand IIRC

 

Carlover1,
Yes. The plug-in. You MAY need 220 volt power (like an electric range/stove or an electric clothes dryer). My neighbor has a pretty decent OLD stick welder. He had to run a 220 outlet to his garage to power it.

At work we use three-phase power for all our welders, power you CANNOT get in a residence. We also have a Miller "Bobcat?" it has an internal combustion engine (propane).....But that is WAY WAY WAY too expensive for a guy that is going to use it once in a while.

I read another post that was kinda asking the same question as you. Apparently, the guys that responded to the other post are using a small MIG portable of some sort and like it a lot. Take a look at the other posts.... you should be able to find it.

Sincerely,
Kurt

 

i bought mine at tool king it was about 3 years ago though and it was about 600 i've heard you cna get them for around 400 but havent looked into them for awhile.

Definately stay away from cheap brands and anything from harbor freight, you cna get hobarts at harbor freight out here pretty cheap but they're line of stuff stay away from lincoln, miller or hobart are the only brands i'd trust.

Supply is how much comes in 220 or 115 the handlers you can get 115 and wil work fine for you

 

Hobart and miller are both made by the same co (my Hobart handler came with a miller logo on the gun).

Millers tend to have slightly more features and cost a little more. Consensus is that for the smaller welders Hobart is a better deal and actually much easier to use. I love my Hobart handler 135, and a 140 (current version of the 135, 110v) or 180 (current version of the 220V hh170) would be a great choice. Personally, I don’t like the comparable Lincolns, they’re good machines but the wire feed isn’t as nice and I’ve found that I spend as much time annoyed at it as I do welding. The comparable millers mostly just cost much and their wire speed tracking works slightly differently, not better or worse, just different.

 

I have a Clarke 180 EN MIG, 230V, Welds with Gas or No Gas. I've had it about 8 months now and Love it.
One of the Car Mag's did a compare of about 8 different MIG Welders and they ranked the Clarke as there favorate.

Ray

 

I agree!! Stick with brand names. As long as you buy a "brand name" welder you'll have no problems getting consumables (such as tips) or parts or repairs. My MIG is a Lincoln Electric (from Home Depot), and the local welding store carries everything for it- and if it ever breaks, they're an authorized repair shop for LE.

Basically the 115/220 volts deal concerns how thick of metal you'll be welding. You don't want to buy something powerful enough to weld 1 inch plate up, but you don't want to wind up with something that can't do more than 1/16th inch, either.

It also affects other things, like duty cycle (how long the welder will work continuously without overheating), but you're not doing "production work", chances are, you'll weld, stop, look at the weld, then weld again for a few seconds, stop, look at the weld, etc- so duty cycle's not that big of a deal.

Look up the local welding store in the phonebook and take a swing by; they might be more expensive than a Home Depot, but at least you can get some ideas and some model #'s out of them and try to find a cheaper price somewhere else.

 

You’d like to think so but in the 135-180A range that really isn’t the case. I regularly use a HH135, HH175, MM175 and a Lincoln SP135, and I can tell you for sure that once you figure out how the different machines do wire speed tracking (Lincoln, not at all, Hobart, some, not a lot, Miller, too much…) you won’t know the difference between the 110V and 220V models. My HH 135 is obviously a 110V machine and I would like a 175/180 (220V) just because I have a better 220v circuit in the garage. I actually split my 220V circuit to run the 110V welder. OTOH, I can take the 110V welder just about anyplace and lay a bead, but don’t think that you’re going to take a 135/140 welder and plug it into any outlet and use it full bore, in most cases they’ll take at least a 20A circuit to run at much higher then the lowest settings.



I’ve run some big, heavy beads using both my HH135 and the SP135 (max power, wire feed ½ way up or higher, welding for 15-30 min with possibly a few seconds stopping here and there to reposition) and I’ve never run up against the duty cycle of either machine.

The big advantage with say the HH 175 over the 135 was that it’s low setting was actually lower output, so it was easier to weld really thin (body work) sheet metal with it then the 110v welder, but with the new 180 and 140 that has pretty much evened out. I’d still buy a 220V welder if you have a good 220v power line or if you intend to run power. As it stands, long term I’ll probably keep my HH135 and would like to get a MM251 someday.

shop around, there are some good ones out there. B&R (one of the big, CHEAP, ebay vendors) is actually a local welding store. I bought my Hobart there for less then I could still get it for new, and his prices are better in person then on ebay.

 

hobart or miller all the way lincoln is crap imho but thats just me and i only do tig.

 

I disagree.....learn how to properly TIG first and the rest is cake. Most welding classes will actually start you off with TIG long before you MIG. Any monkey can MIG.

 

Every welding course i have ever heard of start at oxy acetylene, then arc and into mig and tig last being oxy gives you the hand eye coordination kinda deal yu need for tig, you stick a tip to rod in gas welding and no biggie, do it in tig and your trashing expensive tungstens and contaminating stuff.

YOu'd be suprised how many people i have seen F- up mig

 

ahh, and there we have the reason for MIG’s bad reputation… Any monkey can learn to put down a decent looking MIG bead, that doesn’t mean that in any way is it actually a good weld. TIG is easier to lay down a good bead with, but for production work, out of position work… MIG is preferred and more flexible (Of course, you’ll always find someone that can TIG lying on his back with the pedal in his crotch or armpit…)

Most serious classes start with either oxy/fuel or arc/stick and go from there.

 

mine went oxy then to tig or stick and mig last as if u can do the other 3 you can do mig

 

Hey, there's nothing wrong with MIG.....I don't think MIG has a "bad reputation", I did not say that, nor did I say that anyone can make a nice looking bead with MIG. Do not put words in my mouth. However, anyone can pick up a MIG gun and pull the trigger and think they are welding. See it done all the time.

As far as classes go....not around here. You start with oxy-acetylene, then to arc, then to TIG/MIG. This is NOT the way I learned however, once I learned how to TIG, my MIG welding became SO much more consistant. TIG teaches fundamentals you just don't get by pulling a trigger.

 

I'll add my $.02...

First, if you do get a stick/tig machine to use, make sure you get one that does DC - all the cheapos do AC only, and DC gives you higher quality welds and less sticking. Retrofit boxes (miller, craftsman, lincoln, linde all make/made them) are usually under $300 on ebay for used equipment.

I started out with my dads AC buzzbox and my grandpa bought me a (flux-core no gas) Lincoln weld-pak 100, which I converted to gas once I realized how much innershield (flux wire) sucks. If I had to do it all over again I'd skip the weld-pak and go straight for a better welder, one that comes setup for gas from the factory.

I'd highly recommend avoiding any welder that has ~4 fixed amperage settings, infinitely variable amperage control is definitely the way to go.

Buy more welder than you need - you'll find a way to use it

I'd probably avoid anything not made by linde, lincoln, miller or hobart.

Right now I've still got the buzzbox and the lincoln weld-pak, I recently also purchased a Lincoln Ranger 10LX, a big 250 amp diesel and a miller Maxstar 140 that needs some repair. I'm intent on learning tig, but the stick capabilities of the ranger and the wire feed take care of almost all the jobs I can think of.

 

Oh boy…



You know, the biggest problem with flux core is most of the people that try to use it. Honestly, once you clean the flux off the weld it’s hard to tell a good flux core weld from a good mig weld. They do both shine in different places. Flux core is nice where you need to weld heavier materials (it gets more penetration), dirty stuff, outside or anyplace with any breaze…



I’m assuming that you’re still talking mig…

There are no amperage settings. The settings are the voltage curve.

Amperage is determined mostly by wire feed rate, more wire feed, more amps…

As far as 4 settings vs infinite… I wouldn’t pay extra for infinite settings at all, it gives you nothing besides the advertising “isn’t it cool, it has infinite voltage settings…” whatever…. Your “stickout,” gun angle, gun speed… will each on their own have a bigger impact on the heat put in the weld the the voltage setting does. Hell, half the time I just set the welder voltage at 3 or 4, the feed to something appropriate and then just change technique to adjust for thicker/thinner sections, don’t touch the power settings all day. For inexperienced welders it tends to do nothing but to lead to confusion.

 

Carlover sounds like you need a good mig welder since you can get the gas from your source. I would highly recomend getting a miller. You might be able to get away with using a small unit like a Millermatic 135 (115 amp power)but I would get a larger unit like a 175 or 210 that you can wire off (household 220) with the right plug. In some cases using the 135 just doesnt allow for good penetration into thick tubing or thick suspension brackets that will be heavily stressed. A cheap source for buying a welder would be E bay.
I took a few welding classes years ago when a company I worked for paid for schooling most classes are pretty cheap at a community college.
They did teach oxy ac /fuel first, oxy ac /fuel -stick second, mig second, mig flux, mig alum, then variouse tig methods.
Yeah it is funny how some people think that a monkey can mig but the truth to the whole matter is how people have the skill to mig good enough that the weld could pass inspection or even be considered a quality weld that his skill would even be excepted as a quality enough to be hired for.
Rob

 

Ive had some expierence welding a little however Im going to be doing all my fab work and I want a Miller Dynasty 200DX any input on this welder for a beginner......

 

How are you intending to use it stick or tig ?

 

check out cyberweld.com They have the best prices i hve ever found on welders. I have a MM175, dynasty 200 dx and cutmate 375. All miller because they are a quality product and company and especially because they are made in the USA. Ifi were you i would get a MM175. It will do thin sheet metal and heavier steel. 1/4" is no problem with good penetration on a single pass. It comes set up for gas, no other kits to buy. It has a 3 year warrantee too. It also (unlike some HD lincoln) shows up in catalogs (i'm not bashing HD lincoln, i used one for 3 years but prefer my miller). The only catch is you need a 220 line, but if you don't have 220 in the gararge check your dryer or stove if either is electric it is 220 and you can make an extension cord. I would not buy a 110 unit unless you only intend to do sheetmatal, or power/portability is a priority. I have used 110 units and I personally hate them. Lastly, check out some welding boards, I of course like millers site: http://www.millermotorsports.com/mboard/

 

83 cross fire i agree with your flux core argument and will add the benifits of not having to carry around a bottle but on the down side you get alot of slag spots around where your working and it makes any body work or light welding a little harder due to the increased penetration. However i have done jobs where i have to use flux core and found the lincoln electirc no stick spray works awesome for keeping your surrounding metal clean

 

i have used gas mig in machine shop and flux core at home becuase i dont have enough money for the gas tanks etc... yet but i think to start off he will be able to use flux core and then when he needs the nicer welds can buy the tanks and neccesary hoses and hook up the gas and start laying sum really nice welds

 

I have a 100A lincoln that runs on 110. The caveat to those is that you ahve to be close to the breaker panel that feeds the circuit your on. They load the circuit so heavily that with long runs the voltage drops in the a/c line just kill the welder. I didnt think of it at the time but taking a couple of hours or so to put in a dedicated 208 V outlet wouldve been better. Either way Im still stuck in the garage because the wires that feed the outlets around the outside of the house arnt heavy enough to cope with the load without massive voltage drops.

 

That about sums up my experience. I kept shutting down the welder (lincoln 110) I believe due to voltage drop. My cutmate 375 has no problems on the same line. Even if you buy a 110 with portability in mind you will be very limited due to extension cords or wiring quality, keep in mind many older circuits are 15a not 20a

you can get a mm175 and use it as fluxcored until your ready for gas, hobart or lincoln too.

 

Yea unless you have a very good heavy extension cord stay away from that route.

I believe most welders miller and hobart anyways usually come with your hoses and regulator so making the conversion to mig would be easy and pretty inexpensive

 

Oh, I didn't say that flux-core didn't have its place - but its FAR easier to do thin bodywork with mig than flux-core, and migging also means less time cleaning up. As mentioned above, any monkey can pull a trigger and lay down a mig weld, but it takes experience to make a good, strong weld that also looks good.

I had CC vs CV messed up there. I should've said 4 power ranges, though I've seen crappy harbor freight machines with as little as two settings.

I disagree....as stated above I went from a 4-range lincoln weld-pak to a lincoln ranger, for my job I also used a miller 300 amp mig machine for several months. For inexperienced welders who don't necessarily understand how the wirespeed control in mig machines effects the output, I think that they can be easily be frustrated by how the output changes with the **** labeled "wire speed" without regard to how changing up gun technique affects their weld.

Do I "need" every single one of those infinitely adjustable points? Hell no - but, does it make adjusting for various different sized metals a lot easier - far easier. Especially when adjusting for thinner metals for doing bodywork - you have more leeway when the metal is thicker and harder to burn thru.

 

proably both......Ive never tig'ed but would like to learn how....

I have sticked with oxy/actel......and arch


First big project will be sub frame connectors

 

This was done with some flux core on a Lincoln SP135…

I’d call that an OK weld… it’s a better weld then it looks, penetration is actually very good, even with the heavey casting and fange, and I can do the same with thin stuff (it’s actually easier with the little welder).



I don’t think that many pros understand how wirespeed effects output, especially since every manufacturer does wire speed tracking differently. In other words, changing the wire speed causes different results on different welders, and even people that understand changing the wire speed changes the A output still end up doing the trial and error thing when going brand to brand with welders.

I regularly use a Lincoln, Hobart and a Miller and I’ll tell you for sure, the Hobart is the easiest to teach someone with (and I like it the best), it’s almost intuitive, the Lincoln (infinitely variable voltage) is second but I’ve never run across someone that doesn’t at some point get confused with the infinity variable deal learning how to use it, it would be much easier without it. The miller has somewhat outdone itself with technology, and with the infinitely variable voltage + very aggressive wire speed tracking you can actually end up in the situation where you change voltage setting and it does the opposite of what you expect it to do.

The Lincoln is the easiest to get and usually cheapest, and has a great power supply but really crappy wire feed. The Hobart and Miller really show that they are built by the same co, and if you get used to their wire feed going back to the Lincoln is the most frustrating thing in the world.

I’m not sure that I buy that, do you ever weld 22 or 24 ga body metal with anything but the lowest voltage setting?

 

FWIW, with flux core there is a BIG difference between different wire standards (ex, GS vs 11) AND manufacturers.

I would always stay away from GS (it’s designed as a consumer grade, “sorta works for everything” wire that does not have to meet the strength and some of the other standards that the other grades do). Even when you find a grade that does what you want it to you might want to try a few different brands to get the results and cleanup that you’re looking for. For example, in the same grade, Lincoln wire leaves a very heavy, white and fluffy looking coating of flux/slag on the weld which is actually super hard and chips off nicely/quickly in big chunks but won’t wire brush or wipe off well at all like the much lighter deposit, yellowish looking slag that you get with Hobart wire…

 

I work as a welder every day I do allot of repair and fabrication. I have used one of these machines many times. For the price I feel that you will not find a better deal. I have used lincoln and miller both. Hands down I love the lincoln and despise the miller macines as far as wire feed machines go. Take a look you will not go worong with this machine. On a side note there is a liner in the Gun/cable part of the welder. It has been my experience that from the factory these liners are too long. A simple trimming has fixed many wire feeding problems. Another option is for you to take a weldeing class and see what you like better. You may well be able to take care of your prokect in class. http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...eet.asp?p=2515

 

On a lot of welders you can actually clamp the gun liner down farther back instead of cutting it. As far as wire feed problems, my problem with lincoln’s wire feed is it’s hokey collection of washers, springs and wing nuts that they package as a wire feed.

As far as price goes, check out B&R welding. They’re local to me but they’re also one of the big ebay sellers. I bought my welder there and you can usually get a Hobart for the same or less then you can get the comparable Lincoln from most other places.

 

(Little late, just found this thread.)

When I was shopping for a welder all my fabrication friends told me to go TIG. The number of different materials it can weld, and the quality of the weld offset the price. The only welding I ever did in the past was stick and gas in high school (10 years ago), and I picked up TIG pretty quick.. it just takes practice. When there's nothing on TV I'd just go out in the garage and weld some scrap.

I got my Miller Syncrowave 250 off ebay, with the torch, pedal, and water cooling outfit for $975. It's a 12 year old setup but it still works perfectly. The other costs I didn't expect were shipping and an electrician. The welder weighs 375 pounds so it cost me a little over 100 to ship it. And the welder uses 208V single phase, at 100 amps. It cost me 125 total to have a line put in that'd handle it. But I can weld some pretty thick stuff, including aluminum.

Contrary to what some people have been saying, I can't weld MIG at all. I can do gas, stick, and TIG.. but my MIG welds suck. I just leave the MIG under the table and TIG everything. It forces me to learn to weld out of position and upside down (wear leather!).

 

Yea, I still believe that someone that REALLY KNOWS what they're doing with a MIG can do fine with the others as long as they can work out the hand eye coordination... it doesn't really work well the other way around.

Really, there is a lot of overlap with what you can do with each, but there a few things that are just much better with one or the other. Anything overhead (exhaust), anything that you have to run a lot of bead on or if you need to tack a bunch of stuff together is really where the MIG shines, where TIG is the only way to do delicate work, especially stuff that needs to be pretty in light guage.

 

On my little weld-pak, no, I generally stick to the "A" range for doing thin bodywork, but that doesn't mean that on an infinitely variable machine the dial would be turned down as low as possible to make for some good, clean welds.

As I said, there's nothing inherently wrong with doing flux-core welds, but there's a place for it and a place for standard gas shielded mig, as far as I'm concerned gas shielded mig is more adaquately suited to bodywork and I'm convinced it leaves nicer welds for a beginner than flux-core will (especially when using the crappy lincoln innershield wire) with a lot less cleanup.

 

By no means am I a welder but I have done some studies. Hasnt Lincoln Electric been the leader in welding equipment for a great amount of years?

Migs, Tigs, Plasma, may be your preference but to start out I would prefer gas. The upfront cost seems cheaper and the techniques provide in depth learning on respective welding aspects.

For beginers I recomend you start with nothing more than a book from home depot or lowes called "The Welders Handbook" It covers the basic need to know areas of welding and has some very helpfull charts on metals, gases, and more. The book is 15 to 20 dollars for its 80 or so pages.

Safty! This is the biggest and first thing you should learn. If you cause a backflash ( that pop sound ) with a poorly maintenenced torch you could very well loose your life. Not to say that this is most likly to happen, I'm just saying that it could happen, and it has happened.

Gas tanks, a tip I got from a welder in Texas was you should rent gas tanks instead of buying those small tote a torch tanks. He says the cost for tanks goes into either buying the tank, renting the tank, and the time and labor it takes to fill the tanks. Last came in as the gas itself. So it would be cheaper to rent a tank and fill it less then to buy small tanks and fill them more.

The facts that I stated here are of what I have read or herd from others. None of this came from experience of my own so correct me if I'm wrong, and reasearch what you may not think is right. ty

 

Buy the biggest tank that is practical/legal in your area… bigger tanks only cost a few $ more to buy and fill and hold MUCH more gas. The only way that it makes sense to rent is if you go through a bunch of the stuff. I’m pretty stingy with my gas, but I do quite a bit of welding, at times it’s been a bit here and there daily... (but I also use flux core a bit and do quite a bit with other people’s equipment), and I’ve only gone through 2 80cu/ft bottles of C25 in 6 years. I’d have to go through a bottle every 3-6months to make renting make sense. Tig uses argon much faster, but it’s still not that much faster.