PolarrrBearrr

Alright guys (and gals) I wanted to float an idea past everyone and see what the responses were. I'm currently having issues with my rear hatch, especially around the rear deck lid. By issues, I mean leakage, and I think I'd like to see the rear deck lid attached to the body, so that I can maybe fab up some custom rear brake lights. (I don't know, I love the rest of the car, but those rear lights...)

Anyway, I've seen that on Corvettes, the rear glass is just glass, and not attached to the rear deck lid. So, I was wondering, would it be possible to attach the rear glass from a 'Vette to a Camaro? Has anyone tried something like this before?

I know that some of you will say "But what about getting into the rear cargo well?" Yeah, I now I might not have easy acess to it, but, I'm really more curious about attaching the rear glass. I may or may not do it. (Or have the rear deck lid fold backwards....hmm...I'll need to think about that...) All I know is that the rear hatch wieghs a ton, and I'm looking to not have 200lbs. of glass and steel above my head while I'm in there.

Anyone have any thoughts?

dr1

uhm, just that it better look really really badass when your done, or id move on and find something more worthwhile
just simply affixing the decklid, you've now given yourself a "cargo area delete" option.. secondly the rear glass is the hatch, its not window inside a frame, the glass IS the hatch.. everything is bolted to the glass, so unless your using that exact same glass, you will be in fact building a frame, and ADDING more weight if you still want an opening glass hatch :P
that will lead to nowhere unless that decklid can move, so its not even worth opening

PolarrrBearrr

Hmm...I see your point. The thing with the wieght was not making the overall car lighter, it was making the hatch lighter. It was a thought, that all. The rear end on my Camaro (I think) could look better, and I was just curious if this could be a viable idea.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Just so we're clear... Are you thinking of a way to make your hatch glass open up independant of the deck lid?

Or are you thinking of a way to attach the actual vette glass to the rear of your camaro?

If you want to use your existing glass and decklid, just modify the way they open...sure you can do it. It would be more of a "trick" thing than any sort of advantage in my opinion. But you could do it.

If you wanted the actual vette glass on there...boy...I imagine that would take a LOT of custom fabrication. And Im not so sure it would flow well with the car when done. The glass shape that is...

Anything can be done...its the amount of work/money youre willing to put into it that determines if it happens and how it looks when done.

J.

PolarrrBearrr

Well, my first thought was to use the actual 'Vette glass. But after looking closer, I realized that the 'Vette glass is not as squared at the bottom as the Camaro. So, my next thought was, could the Camaro glass be made to open like the 'Vette.

If that is the real question, then I know the answer is no, because there is a lip on the glass that attaches to the decklid underneath. In order to do what I want, I would either have to cut the existing lip off, or, have a custom piece of glass made, or, leave the lip, but make the decklid flip rearward, and cover over the glass lip.

But, the shocks for the hatch are attached to seperate plate that is sandwiched between the decklid, another plate, and the glass. So, the shocks would need to be attached directly to the lid. Not to mention that you'd need to attach another set of shocks to the now independant decklid.

I'm starting to think this is way too complicted to actually fab up.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Well...You can take the glass somewhere to be cut. A place that does custom windows...or even an auto glass place. There is one near me that will cut glass for you.

As for the struts...there are epoxies that you could use to bond some sort of bracket to the glass that would allow the struts to attach to the glass. You might be able to get some lighter duty shocks...which would reduce the effort of closing it as well.

If you then want the deck lid to open backwards, you shouldnt need struts for that. You could just let it open alittle past 90* and it would stay. Or use a hinge design like they put on chests... When you open the lid, the hinge goes straight and props the lid up. When you awtn to close it, you have to pop the hinge in the middle so it folds up.

Its do-able... But like I said. I see no real advantage over being trick. Seems like it would be a ton of work...

J.

884+3

If you want something different that will eliminate the weight of all that glass, have you looked at a fiberglass notchback deck lid. It s not my cup of tea but maybe its something to look at.

PolarrrBearrr

I'm not sure that fiberglass is the way to go.

While it will reduce the wieght of the overall hatch, it is a fragile beast, and the hatch is being slammed down to close it. So, the question would be, would the fiberglass hold up under the slamming? I also drive a Ford Bronco, and the rear tailgate on that wieghs a ton. (Plus there is a rust issue there.) I've found fiberglass replacement tailgates, but it literally says on the site something like "You can't jump on it, can't have adults sit on it (maybe kids) and we would recommend taking the rear spare tire carrier off and changing over to the interior style." It's a tailgate for chrissake! It's supposed to be there to put wieght on, and sit on when I tailgate!

But, I digress. This is the wrong forum for that...

What I'm getting at is that while fiberglass is great for certain areas, I don't think that this is one of them. An area on a car or truck that has regular...pressures(?) exerted on it should probably not be fiberglass.

Maybe the answer is adding a heavier duty shock to make the hatch rise easier...

Let me ask this then; has anyone ever done anything with the piece of trim on the inside of the rear deck lid? I was think like a light (neon?) in there with maybe two small speakers. Has anyone done that?

(Just so you guys know, I'm finally getting my own house with a garage and I plan on doing some serious work on my Camaro. I'm just trying to get thoughts on ideas I've had for a while, because I'm thinking of doing them finally, and before I start, I want to see if they are worth it...)

Anyway, thanks for the ideas guys...
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884+3

Sorry man, I didn't see the "notchback" part of your post.

I agree with you, I'm not crazy about it. If I wanted that, I would have bought a (gahh..I hate to even type it) Honda Del Sol.

Gives me the chills just thinking about it...

dr1

fix your latch and/or pull-down motor, your not supposed to be slamming the hatch at all

i also find it funny your talking about the inferior strength of fiberglass parts, and the topic of this thread is "Corvette parts"...... you do realize what the corvette is composed of right? :P

PolarrrBearrr

Woah, woah, woah. Woah.
Wait a minute here.

By no means am I denying the wonderfullness that is fiberglass, be it a custom interior part, or the whole front end of a car. All I'm saying is that on certain applications, fiberglass is not the answer. While it won't rust, it'll still crack and chip.

Also, while I know that the 'Vette is a great car, that is not what I drive. I drive a very basic 1984 V6 Automatic Chevrolet Camaro. My profession and my nature is one where I like to make things that reflect my personality and my artistic and design creativity. In short, I could have dumped the "Plain Jane" Camaro for something more...newer? updated? complete? But I see a blank canvas, and as such I am looking to do some things that are a little wild and maybe a big gamble. I'm trying to get thoughts on some of these ideas so that I don't wind up with a pile of parts that used to be a running automobile that I'll wind up having to sell because I got in over my head.

I'm sure at some point I will dive into the world of fiberglass, for interior parts, but as of right now, I was more curious about transferring other parts from other cars with out completely reinventing the wheel.

Ok. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to go on a rant there.

Anyway, getting back to the point; the rear hatch latch is just that - a latch. I don't have the pull down motor, though I was thinking of putting one in. However, I'm not sure if my wiring will accept one without changing the whole harness out. As of right now, the latch is a little worn and rusty, and therefore the hatch needs a little oomph behind it when it's shut.

Frankly, I've looked through these forums and seen a lot of stuff - good, bad or otherwise. I'm looking to do something that is maybe based off of what was done before, but a little bit more...wild?

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

you could add hatch lifts from a whale tail equipped trans am that will make the hatch go up real quik ..... been there done that

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I never slam my hatch! Ever! Instead I lower it until the latch catches and let the electric motor pull the hatch down tight.

Adjust it properly and you won't have any problems.

As for the idea you had, I think its a cool idea. It has been done before though. It was done on the 88' Concept Iroc

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

He doesnt have an electric pull down hatch Said that a couple posts up. I kinda wish my TA was like that. That pull down unit was a pain in my butt for awhile until I got it working half decent.

I still think you could pull your idea off fairly easily. Not with vette parts though... You need to do so research. See if there is anyone around you that will cut/modify your rear glass for ya. Then, you need to take a spare decklid, so you dont mess yours up, and put it in place with the hatch open, and just see how things fall, and try to come up with a way to have the glass seal when its down. Thats gonna be another big challenge for ya. Coming up with a way to water tight everything. If it never sees rain, then it wont be as big a deal...

I can see it working...and i can see it being trick when its done. If you want to give it a go...ide say pick up a spare hatch complete with deck lid and just start playing around with it. That way you can slap your stock one back on...no harm no foul.

J.

PolarrrBearrr

Sorry it took so long to respond...I was getting kicked to some wierd travel site when I clicked on my bookmark....

Anyway, it's funny that the picture of that concept Camaro was posted, that was pretty much what was inspiring this train of thought. Now that I looked closer, there seems to be an extra set of screws in the bottom of that glass...maybe they moved the latch forward, attached to the front end of the deck lid? Hmm....

Though, this begs the question, if it is all sealed up, how do they get to the rear lights if the bulbs need replaceing? Do they climb through the cargo compartment? I guess so, right?

PolarrrBearrr

So, after looking carefully at that image, here's what's going on. Whomever built this, basically took a high rise rear wing off of a Camaro, cut the light housing off of a Firebird, and grafted those and the a rear decklid together, and created a custom light cover. It also looks like they used the rear bumper cover off of a Firebird as well, but made a custom lower body kit piece for it.

Also, if you look at the decklid, it is actually following the slant of the glass, so, there must be a latch system (of some sort) on the rear end of the glass.

Actually, except for the glass, this really isn't all that difficult. (Provided you can get your hands on all the pieces.) A little sheet metal, some body filler...yeah, this could be done.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Well, I think there is more goin on with that concept than you think... Those arent pontiac lights although they look like it. That hole rear section is custom and being a concept, I dont think changing lights was part of their concern.

Youre right that the glass has a latch at the base of it. Those two little "buttons" you see is probably the back side of the latch. That glass was most likely custom made...I doubt it was modified from a thirdgen hatch. But its possible.

Your best bet is to still get a spare hatch and just see how things fit together and work. I still ike your idea. Ide like to see you develope it some more on your car. Start playing with the parts and making things work.

J.

PolarrrBearrr

Ghettocruiser, first of all, thanks for the support (though, I'm pretty sure you'll be a bad influence). I think I need to really sit down and work this out.

While you are right, those are probably all custom lights and custom rear end, I live in the real world that is New Jersey, and they can be sticklers for working taillights. I don't think I'm ready to completly give up my cargo area just yet either, so I'll have to see what sort of clearence I get when the rear deck lid is there.

I need to break this down a little bit. Yeah, I think I'm going to get a second hatch. (just in case.) I think that, depsite the fact that this was all custom, I'm going to use parts that are already around, like the Firebird's tailights. I mean, why reinvent the wheel, right? (Though I guess I am modifying the wheel...) I'm also not crazy about that huge rear wing. Reminds me too much of that old Dodge Daytona. I already have a stock Firebird wing on my Camaro, which I think looks a lot better.

I'm also torn about the rear bumper. I had plans for the Camaro one, but if I modify the rear lights, I'll need a place for the liscense plate (another NJ issue) which means on the bumper.

Hmm... I guess I need to hit the drawing board...

PolarrrBearrr

One more question guys...I know that this has been done before, and it may be a little off topic (though, I think we're pretty far from it at this point), I have a hard top Camaro.

I want T-Tops.

Can I cut the existing top and add the hardware?

I found this image, and was wondering about adding the center bar, locks and all that other stuff, and having t-tops? I'm not looking to hack apart two cars for t-tops. (Though from the look of this shot, maybe non-removeable t-tops?)

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

It would be easier to just find a T-top car to start with and swap everything over.

The other, more expensive option is to cut the roof off your car and weld in a T-top roof.

Unless you have the skills to fabricate all of this, and the equipment to to so its not very cost effective.

_______________________________

Unless you missed it, the hatch glass was cut for that conversion, and it uses a latch similar to what is found on the bottom of a Corvette's hatch. They fabricated a water channel, and weather stripping for it. So you will need to fabricate all the same.

The concept camaro actually has the quarter panels off a bird.

PolarrrBearrr

Ah ha! I knew that had to be fabricated from the rear end of a 'Bird...

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

First of all,

As soon as I read the post I thought of the picture that someone posted here. However, after further review, there is really no way of telling if that is a camaro or a firebird. Really if you think about it, the camaro skirts will fit on firebirds easily, that just might be bird...

Either way, anything can be done with a well thought out plan.

PolarrrBearrr

Well, while that is totally possible, I've seen other images of this car, and it does have a Camaro front end. That, and it seems to me that the rear end past the wheel well seems a little long...like the 'Bird rear end was grafted onto the Camaro.

But I suppose either is possible....

Just on a side note...I'm amazed that this thread has gone this long...am I the first to really consider doing this mod or something like it?

dr1

No? I highly doubt you've come up with an original idea yet, it will take more work then that
I'd strong suggest, whatever you want todo to your car, you tackle some smaller jobs first.. you camaro would not be the first to fall victim to an owner whos ideas go way behind his skills, and who does not realize this

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Camaros and Firebirds have different quarter panels. And its easy to see once you have noticed the difference. Go pick up Gran Turismo 4, the Camaro concept is in the game.

It IS the official 88' Iroc-Z concept car. I have a full suite of pictures at home on my PC.


And here is a video from GT4. http://media.putfile.com/Gran-Turism...ro-Iroc-hotlap

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

While I agree with you 100%, I think he will be ok with his idea though. Only because his idea require little to no modifications to the body itself. All he will be doing is messing with a spare hatch glass and deck lid. I can think of a few mods to the body that will need to be done in order for the deck lid to hinge and latch, but none of them should be permanent and should be easily reversed if it doesnt work out. He'll know long before that just by mocking things up if its going to work or not though...so if he doesnt get as far as modding the body, he can chuck the spare parts, put his orig stuff on and be done.

I still like the idea! haha... Not even sure why, maybe its because I like new ideas. And I think it is fairly original. I havent seen ANY thirdgen that has a separate hatch glass and rearward opening decklid. Anyone else???

J.


EDIT: Hey Thirdgen89GTA, did you take that picture? Looks like it was taken at Carlisle GM Nationals or something. Im surprised that car didnt make it to one of the enclosed displays or wasnt atleast roped off some.

PolarrrBearrr

So, first of all, I just want to say that I don't want to spark any arguments between senior memebers here...

Second, yeah guys, I am very aware of getting in over my head. There is a lot of work that needs to be done on the car, and this is all work that is optional, meaning, I'm starting from the front of the car, and working back. I've got people that I can rely on for the stuff I can't do or do alone, and I should be okay. As far as giving up on the car, it'll be either she kills me, or I kill her. I'm not just going to abandon her in any way shape or form.

Besides, I can't because the girlfriend wants me to do the work, likes the ideas, and is willing to help where she can. (No, she doesn't have any sisters.)

I saw that video from the game, and it looks really sweet. (Both the car and the game.) Just an observation though, is it me, or does the rear end on that car look like it tapers into the center of the car from the sides? Is the 'Bird rear end thinner than the Camaro? Or is it just because they messed up creating the car digitally?

Also, to address the "originality" of the ideas...nothing for nothing, but if it has been done (and obvously it has) if I do it, i'll have, what, 1 of 2 cars like it in THE WHOLE WORLD?!

Also, to add to the list of things to do, I saw a thread that had a guy installing a Mazda center console in his Camaro, and it reached to the rear seats... I think I like that idea....

kscamaro89

iTrader: (1)

Have you thought of lexan glass? it'a a hell of a lot lighter, and more options for fabricating. A little more expensive though. You wouldn't "need" struts. I think the lexan glass for third gens wieghs about 30 lbs.

PolarrrBearrr

Yeah, I did have that idea. I was looking through other posts and saw that someone had used lexan to make a new hatch glass.

I'm divided though, because I would get a lighter hatch, but, I would loose wieght in the back for traction. I am thinking about either putting in rear seat delete boxes, or a sub-box in the trunk area, and that may help with the traction.

I might literally wiegh the hatch, try and figure out what the lexan would wiegh, and use the difference to try and make a sub box, so that I still have the same wieght over the rear tires.

I'm still in the planning stages, and I am making sure that I check every detail before embarking down this road, so bare with me. I'm going to keep a running post once I do start the project.

I'm also in the process of buying a bouse with a really nice garage to do the work in...so until I'm in and settled, ain't nothing being done to the Camaro.

kscamaro89

iTrader: (1)

I'm personally setting up my Camaro for drifting (while being a daily driver). Without a v8 up front to keep the front wheels planted the Lexan glass is a "duh" thing for what I'm doing. Everyone keeps telling me to keep for traction, but I need to lose it so I can keep the wheels loose. But for an application like you're talking about I personally would recommend it. Custom is just that. Custom. It takes time, money, and patience. Durability is always in the back of ones mind, and if you can make it lighter there is less wear and tear from normal use.

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

i just watched that clip from GT4 and if my camaro sounded like that i would be pissed! stupid jap games make my V8 sound like a V6

kscamaro89

iTrader: (1)

It's a video game Bro. Most 400 hp jap engines don't sound like they make them sound. Those "pissed of weed eaters" aren't really what they sound like. A real 400 hp "rice burner" (as most on this site [might] call them) sounds good to me. I hate those guys that just simply slap on a exhaust and tail lights (and probably pay someone to do it) and say they're racers. I respect anyone who has the ***** to proudly work on their car and flaunt it.(ranting, sorry)

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Indeed, that is how it sounds in the game. I haven't found many games that get a true cammed small block to sound right. Though they certainly spend the effort to get a exotic car to sound right.

that said, I don't like lexan because its easy to scratch and will need to be buffed often to keep it clear. You've seen the old convertibles with that foggy rear window right? Thats lexan.

PolarrrBearrr

Just to set the record straight, I work on a computer all day, and most video games never sound right because when they are built, the programmers need to make the game fit the lowest common denominator. Which means, most people don't have a 5.1 surround sound system on their computers, and therefore the programmers use an engine noise with very little bass so that it sounds like an engine on a mono speaker system.

But I digress...

What if the lexan was coated in something that would protect it from getting scratched? Like a clear coat or clear floor polish or soemthing? I know model builders use a floor polish on clear parts to even out scratches... couldn't that work on a full scale level?

BTW, I have to give a lot of respect for making a Camaro a drift car. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I really would like to see video of it in action. I would think the wheel length would give you more leverage to whip the rear end around, but without the front wheel drive, you'd have no traction...

If you ever have footage, please post it. If nothing then for my own curiosity...

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

OT: Todays games are built for 5.1 or better. It downmixes to 2 channel when needed. I haven't seen a game for a last gen or newer console that doesn't support 5.1 at the minimum. Anything new like a Xbox 360, or PS3 should be coded for a 5.1 system and HD video.

On the lexan, thats exactly what Buffing does. It smooths out scratches and fills them in with a compound so they don't appear as readily. Its not that it can't be kept clear, but rather that it requires far more care than a glass hatch.

Besides, the Camaro concept hatch is a stock hatch thats been cut shorter.

kscamaro89

iTrader: (1)

Again off subject I thought the SB sound from Forza 2 was pretty good. With distinct differences when upgraded with BB. I gotta admit they definitly got the BB right. It's deep, loud, and proud with great physics. You got a BB, there ain't no way you're comin' outta a corner full throttle.

PolarrrBearrr

Yes, with the newer systems, they do cover the 5.1 surround sound for all the new games (as well as the HD video). However, and this has been an issue since Day 1, when programmers make a game, the optomize for their set up. So, if say, they are programming on an XBox 360 with a really sweet 5.1 set up, it can sound perfect to them, because they are in a acoustically perfect room, which has been set up with enough equipment for a MEtallica concert.

Then we get the game home, and reality sets in.

They can do all the lines of code they wish, however, life has those little variables, and therefore, what sounds perfect to one, sounds inperfect to another.

That and I was referring more to PC console games. I very normally don't play on consoles all that much anymore. I've been playing Need For Speed: Carbon for a while now, and the V8s and tuners all sound correct. (That's on a PC BTW). Now, I also have Need For Speed: Most Wanted and while there is a difference in the engine sounds, they aren't as perfect as they could be. (That's on a GameCube).

Now, you are all going to say "Well, that isn't an (insert newest, most exspensive console name here)". And you are right.

But in the end, I'd rather take the $400 that I'd spend on a new PS3 and use it for a Cherry Bomb or Flowmaster muffler on my Camaro, and get the sound PERFECT.

I may work on a computer all day, but the one thing I know is this - Virtual reality can never be as real as REALITY.

Besides, my driver's seat is more comfortable than my desk chair any day.

Alright, no more game talk. Back to cars.

I know it was said that the hatch on the concept was a stock cut short, but I think that may or may not be true. It's a distinct possibility, but there's just something about the angle that doesn't look quite... stock.

Also, I guess I understand that the lexan hatch would require more effort to keep it clean, but then again, if I'm going to do all this work anyway, I'd like to assume that I'm not going to park this under a tree and let it rot all over again.

'Cause that would be just silly.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

I would just like to point out that the previously posted concept camaro doesn't have quarters from a bird. They have the smaller wheel lips like a camaro and the camaro sail panels (the top ridge of the quarter fades into the sail rather than continuing into the door). Sorry, it was bugging me

PolarrrBearrr

Let me throw this out there;

Is it possible that whomever took a Camaro and a 'Bird quarter panel, and sliced and diced and welded the two together?

The back part looks like a 'Bird, the lip looks like a Camaro... it could be possible, right?

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

While the rear section of the quarter does look like that of a bird, if you compare the two, the contours are different. Looks to me like the rear section was custom fabricated from scratch.

PolarrrBearrr

Yeah, that was what I originally thought too, then someone said that they were 'Bird quarters.

I mean, if (and that is a big IF) I were to do this, I think I'd cut the last few inches off a 'Bird quarter, and graft that onto a Camaro quarter panel. Provided that the rear lights attach the same on both cars. I just can't see doing all that sheetmetal work when I could graft different pieces together...

89RsPower!

A front wheel drive drift car? riiiiiiiight.. never heard of a rear wheel drive drift car.. and never saw a camaro used as a drift car? you havnt looked... personally I've never heard of a front wheel drive drift car.. how would you pull that off pulling the e-brake the make the rear spin out?

kscamaro89

iTrader: (1)

Ummmm......I've seen hundreds of front wheel drift cars. There many, many different ways to make a car drift. Originally ALL the drift cars were FWD. Thats how they controlled them. NOW the majority are RWD because you can make a car do more because you can force the rear slide (due to taction loss) as opposed to going around a corner so fast the rear ends slides out from behind it. Thats a basic rundown of how the original Japanese drifters did it. (FYI Driftings been around since the 70's. Americans just didn't know about it) Oh year and D1 Drifters DO use the Ebrake. They remove the locking button.

PolarrrBearrr

Thanks for backing me up on that.
I thought I was having an off day or something. What I meant by my other statement was that when I think of drifting, I mostly think of tuners, and I normally associate tuners with FWD.

I'm not a big drift racing fan, so I'm not overly up on what cars people are using. The more I thought about it, I remembered seeing a Corvette drifting once, so I guess it is possible with a Camaro. But, then again ANYTHING is possible if you do it right.

I've never seen a Camaro used for drifting, but then again, I've never seen a 4x4 Honda Civic either. But I'm sure that if someone wanted to, they could make one