a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
05-26-2011, 12:57 PM
#101
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
I've been trying my hand at fiberglass lately. . .not exactly my forte!
I used the stock corvette front wheel wells which meant I had to cut the crap out of them. I made a 90-degree metal "flange" that bolts to the camaro inner structure, then lengthened the wheel wells. For the last couple of weeks every available hour has been spent putting glass on then grinding it off.
Oh yeah, during this whole deal I had to be involved in this build, so I lost a week of working on my own stuff:
www.48hourcamaro.com
I used the stock corvette front wheel wells which meant I had to cut the crap out of them. I made a 90-degree metal "flange" that bolts to the camaro inner structure, then lengthened the wheel wells. For the last couple of weeks every available hour has been spent putting glass on then grinding it off.
Oh yeah, during this whole deal I had to be involved in this build, so I lost a week of working on my own stuff:
www.48hourcamaro.com
06-10-2011, 09:37 AM
#103
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Actually I've made good progress, but I didn't take pictures.
I have the mini tubs installed, and the front wheel wells are almost finished (I have them glassed-up, I just need to smooth them out a bit).
I'm out this weekend (looking at a VW Passat wagon of all things!) so I'll try to get some pics early next week.
I have the mini tubs installed, and the front wheel wells are almost finished (I have them glassed-up, I just need to smooth them out a bit).
I'm out this weekend (looking at a VW Passat wagon of all things!) so I'll try to get some pics early next week.
06-11-2011, 11:22 PM
#107
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Car: 1990 camaro rs
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
With all these builds your involved with, it looks like to me your living the life my friend. Amazing work.
06-12-2011, 10:41 PM
#110
Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
i rewent through the thread and in post 95 i believe where you put the from by the trans tunnel. isnt that brace going to be in the way, and secondly by putting the braces that shoot out twards the back through the seat, that will get in the way of the rear seats, so why not just get rid of them, cut out that dip and weld some flat stock in there so it looks cleaner?
06-13-2011, 06:15 AM
#111
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
First, about the pics. I'll get you some this evening you impatient bastards! (I do apologize, I had to go out of town this weekend so I wasn't able to get pics up.)
You cannot support the rear of the car with flat stock.
The rear seats are mostly for looks as the front seats will be pushed back so close that only the smallest of people could fit in the rear (like anyone could fit in there before). I wanted the "look" of a rear seat, even if they weren't really functional. The plan is to trim the seats to fit around the rear frame rails. Whatever I throw in the rear seat won't mind that the padding is a little thin in one area.
You cannot support the rear of the car with flat stock.
The rear seats are mostly for looks as the front seats will be pushed back so close that only the smallest of people could fit in the rear (like anyone could fit in there before). I wanted the "look" of a rear seat, even if they weren't really functional. The plan is to trim the seats to fit around the rear frame rails. Whatever I throw in the rear seat won't mind that the padding is a little thin in one area.
06-13-2011, 06:59 AM
#112
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
subscribed, You, my friend, are sick with the custom work. two 
06-13-2011, 07:54 PM
#113
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
As promised here are a few new images:
Ridetech coil-overs on the C5 front clip.
Please note the wheel well is not in it's final position, it's just thrown in to get a good shot.
I'm cheap (and so is this build!) so I used trailer fenders from the local farm supply store with a little extra 16 gauge sheet.
Same deal as above.
Don't let the "rust" fool you. This popped up overnight as it's been extremely hot and humid here. I plan on blasting everything before I paint it. You may also notice I changed the upper shock mounts. I prefer to orientate the upper and lower mounting points the same. This mitigates the bearings binding when going through suspension travel.
Panhard mount and Ridetech parts.
These arms were actually on one of our displays. when we changed the display I grabbed them, shortened em, and threaded the end so I can adjust them (though I do have to take it apart to do so, I only have to do it once!)
And the obligatory shot of the shocks I developed in conjunction with Fox Racing Shox (and so we are clear I mean that Fox sent me parts, I tested, suggested a few changes, and accepted them. The Fox units are AMAZING out of the box. Though I will likely end up using our triple adjustable units with the remote reservoir as I do plan on hitting a few auto-cross sessions!)
Ridetech coil-overs on the C5 front clip.
Please note the wheel well is not in it's final position, it's just thrown in to get a good shot.
I'm cheap (and so is this build!) so I used trailer fenders from the local farm supply store with a little extra 16 gauge sheet.
Same deal as above.
Don't let the "rust" fool you. This popped up overnight as it's been extremely hot and humid here. I plan on blasting everything before I paint it. You may also notice I changed the upper shock mounts. I prefer to orientate the upper and lower mounting points the same. This mitigates the bearings binding when going through suspension travel.
Panhard mount and Ridetech parts.
These arms were actually on one of our displays. when we changed the display I grabbed them, shortened em, and threaded the end so I can adjust them (though I do have to take it apart to do so, I only have to do it once!)
And the obligatory shot of the shocks I developed in conjunction with Fox Racing Shox (and so we are clear I mean that Fox sent me parts, I tested, suggested a few changes, and accepted them. The Fox units are AMAZING out of the box. Though I will likely end up using our triple adjustable units with the remote reservoir as I do plan on hitting a few auto-cross sessions!)
Last edited by marolf101x; 06-13-2011 at 08:04 PM.
06-13-2011, 08:08 PM
#115
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Stock Vette. I cut my 2001 Z06 in half (http://www.projectawdcamaro.com/imag...e_mockup1L.jpg) and put the front frame in the third gen. I couldn't believe how well it fit! The front wheels are VERY close to the fender lips, but that will be resolved.
In the end I'll probably use our tubular control arms for the C5 as these aluminum parts will go on my 68.
In the end I'll probably use our tubular control arms for the C5 as these aluminum parts will go on my 68.
06-13-2011, 08:31 PM
#117
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
I picked up the Z06 wrecked. The previous owner hit a phone pole (or tree, or whatever) with the left side right where your *** sits in the seat. So the side was gone.
I wanted to build another third gen cause I like the looks. Though it might be cool to add "modern" parts and styling cues, it'll be out of date in a few years. I'd rather keep the third gen styling.
I wanted to build another third gen cause I like the looks. Though it might be cool to add "modern" parts and styling cues, it'll be out of date in a few years. I'd rather keep the third gen styling.
06-14-2011, 02:47 AM
#119
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
beautiful fab work.... /drool. really anxious to see how this turns out.
06-14-2011, 06:47 AM
#120
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
I need to clarify. . .I do not want to build "another" 3rd gen. This is the only one I plan on building for quite a while (I have a number of projects lined up after this car).
I meant to say I like the styling of the 3rd gen, and as such don't want to date the build with pastel colors, scallops, Z06 flares and vents, 5th gen Camaro tail lights or anything else that lets people know when the car was built. If the outside looks mostly stock and the color choice is neutral the car will have a long life.
I meant to say I like the styling of the 3rd gen, and as such don't want to date the build with pastel colors, scallops, Z06 flares and vents, 5th gen Camaro tail lights or anything else that lets people know when the car was built. If the outside looks mostly stock and the color choice is neutral the car will have a long life.
06-15-2011, 03:15 AM
#123
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
I need to clarify. . .I do not want to build "another" 3rd gen. This is the only one I plan on building for quite a while (I have a number of projects lined up after this car).
I meant to say I like the styling of the 3rd gen, and as such don't want to date the build with pastel colors, scallops, Z06 flares and vents, 5th gen Camaro tail lights or anything else that lets people know when the car was built. If the outside looks mostly stock and the color choice is neutral the car will have a long life.
I meant to say I like the styling of the 3rd gen, and as such don't want to date the build with pastel colors, scallops, Z06 flares and vents, 5th gen Camaro tail lights or anything else that lets people know when the car was built. If the outside looks mostly stock and the color choice is neutral the car will have a long life.
I couldnt have said it better myself, thirdgens have great lines as it is, no need to change it. Besides how crazy would it be to see a thirdgen that looks stock handling like a late model vette and then pop the hood and show everyone whats really underneath. Id love to be there to see their faces. My jaw would drop if i saw this thing in RL.
06-15-2011, 10:10 AM
#124
Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Did you make that panhard & LCA mounts from scratch ?
Thanks
06-15-2011, 02:18 PM
#125
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
I built the rear frame rails out of whatever I found laying around the shop. If I remember correctly it is is 1.5 x 2.5 x 0.25 wall mild steel.
I basically removed the stock "rails" and put these in the same place. I laid the rails against the back of the seat first and held them in place with some sheet metal screws (which I later welded the holes shut) then marked, cut and added the lower and upper rails. This keeps the rails connected to the stock sheet metal so it doesn't rattle.
It was all mocked up in the car then removed for final welding of all the joints. There are "fish plates" inside the rails to keep everything structurally sound.
I tied into the stock "rails" just behind the rear end (you can see it in the first pic).
In the second pic you can see how much I had to remove from the floor (where the seat pad sits). It's about 1.25" into the interior. You could make it lower, but I was concerned with anything hanging under the car as I have it set up for a low ride height. The lowest part of the car is 5" off the ground at ride height.
The panhard mounts (on both the rear and the chassis) were built from scratch. Just .188 plate that I drew in CAD and cut out on our Plasmacam.
The lower control arm mounts are "off the shelf" items we carry.
Here's the mount on the rear end:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...e-bracket.html
Here's the mount on the chassis:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...-3-4-wide.html
And here's the billet coil over mount:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...-and-a114.html
I basically removed the stock "rails" and put these in the same place. I laid the rails against the back of the seat first and held them in place with some sheet metal screws (which I later welded the holes shut) then marked, cut and added the lower and upper rails. This keeps the rails connected to the stock sheet metal so it doesn't rattle.
It was all mocked up in the car then removed for final welding of all the joints. There are "fish plates" inside the rails to keep everything structurally sound.
I tied into the stock "rails" just behind the rear end (you can see it in the first pic).
In the second pic you can see how much I had to remove from the floor (where the seat pad sits). It's about 1.25" into the interior. You could make it lower, but I was concerned with anything hanging under the car as I have it set up for a low ride height. The lowest part of the car is 5" off the ground at ride height.
The panhard mounts (on both the rear and the chassis) were built from scratch. Just .188 plate that I drew in CAD and cut out on our Plasmacam.
The lower control arm mounts are "off the shelf" items we carry.
Here's the mount on the rear end:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...e-bracket.html
Here's the mount on the chassis:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...-3-4-wide.html
And here's the billet coil over mount:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...-and-a114.html
06-15-2011, 10:11 PM
#126
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
5" of ground clearance isn't exactly low...
06-16-2011, 06:14 AM
#127
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
no, 5" isn't that low. but every car we build has a MINIMUM 4" clearance at ride height. As we drive these cars all over the country on all kinds of terrain we want to make sure its comfortable and you don't have to worry about ripping off header flanges or prematurely opening oil pans!
Sure, you can live with 2.5" ground clearance or less, but you cannot throw an Sales guy who usually drives a stock Silverado in the car, tell him to take a 1000 mile trip and expect it to come back in one piece.
Sure, you can live with 2.5" ground clearance or less, but you cannot throw an Sales guy who usually drives a stock Silverado in the car, tell him to take a 1000 mile trip and expect it to come back in one piece.
06-17-2011, 12:19 AM
#128
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Amazing work! I am planning on attending school in Jan to learn how to do exactly this! I want to be a fabricator! any advice on classes to take? Welding is already on the list.....as well as Autocad.....
06-17-2011, 06:12 AM
#129
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
I cannot tell you exact classes to take as I learned just by doing. I grew up working on dirt circle track cars. Here's my brothers World of Outlaws Late Model running at Knoxville, IA:
I was then lucky enough to get a job in the Automotive Aftermarket where I am allowed to work on some pretty cool projects.
Most of the time I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing. I just jump in, try it out, and typically build something 3 times to get it right (or close enough for me!) If I cannot figure something out I seek the advice of professionals. I'm lucky enough to work closely with a lot of big name builders, and as such can call them to see where I screwed up.
I was then lucky enough to get a job in the Automotive Aftermarket where I am allowed to work on some pretty cool projects.
Most of the time I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing. I just jump in, try it out, and typically build something 3 times to get it right (or close enough for me!) If I cannot figure something out I seek the advice of professionals. I'm lucky enough to work closely with a lot of big name builders, and as such can call them to see where I screwed up.
06-26-2011, 02:02 PM
#130
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
The suspension is finally at a point where I can sit the car on the ground!
Here's the car at ride height. The Bud can is about 4.75" tall, so the cross member is about 4.5" off the ground.
Close enough for today!
Like I stated before, I typically build things three times to get it right. Case in point, the torque arm. . .I'll likely have to move this inboard a bit so it's running straight.
I got the inner fender wells far enough along in the fiberglass stage to put them in and make sure everything fit. Again, not perfect, but I'll change them so they fit correctly.
Here's the car at ride height. The Bud can is about 4.75" tall, so the cross member is about 4.5" off the ground.
Close enough for today!
Like I stated before, I typically build things three times to get it right. Case in point, the torque arm. . .I'll likely have to move this inboard a bit so it's running straight.
I got the inner fender wells far enough along in the fiberglass stage to put them in and make sure everything fit. Again, not perfect, but I'll change them so they fit correctly.
Last edited by marolf101x; 06-26-2011 at 02:07 PM.
06-26-2011, 07:04 PM
#132
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
looks amazing
06-26-2011, 10:56 PM
#133
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
It really is. Could you possibly post more specifics on the front subframe location using the C5 frame? I'm in love here, and ready to pull the trigger on mine as well. Just wondering how you located yours.
06-27-2011, 06:31 AM
#134
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Vette subframe?. . .oh yeah, you just line up slot A with hole B and it all bolts in!!
Just giving you hell, mate.
Here's actually what you do:
1-grab a plasma cutter
2-cut away damn near everything from the front of the third gen (wheel wells, firewall, mostly all of it)
3-cut a c5 Z06 in half
4-place front of C5 under Camaro centering front wheels in the wheel wells
5-weld what you can, make brackets/mounts/spacers for the rest and weld it all in
Sorry, but there's no "handbook" for how to do this. I didn't know how I was going to get it in there when I started. I just cut a little and measure a lot. If somethign didn't work, cut it out and start over.
Just giving you hell, mate.
Here's actually what you do:
1-grab a plasma cutter
2-cut away damn near everything from the front of the third gen (wheel wells, firewall, mostly all of it)
3-cut a c5 Z06 in half
4-place front of C5 under Camaro centering front wheels in the wheel wells
5-weld what you can, make brackets/mounts/spacers for the rest and weld it all in
Sorry, but there's no "handbook" for how to do this. I didn't know how I was going to get it in there when I started. I just cut a little and measure a lot. If somethign didn't work, cut it out and start over.
06-27-2011, 07:35 AM
#135
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Car: '86 IROC-Z/'94 Z28
Engine: 350 LT1/382 LT1
Transmission: 4L60-E/T-56
Axle/Gears: 3.45/3.42 (soon 4.10)
Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Does the front of the c5 subframe butt up to the thirdgen core support behind the headlights or did you cut that? Also, do you have pics of the rear of the subframe that shows detail of how you attached it to the unibody?
Got a plasiarc so it'll be easy to remove and I have a nice MIG welder so that isn't a problem. Just trying to figure out how hard the rest will be. I'll be using a 4thgen firewall so I can use the dash, a/c and.chassis harness from that car with irs. I think I figured out how to use the rear, it's going to involve deleting the rear seats entirely, then using that space to mount c5 fuel tanks.
Got a plasiarc so it'll be easy to remove and I have a nice MIG welder so that isn't a problem. Just trying to figure out how hard the rest will be. I'll be using a 4thgen firewall so I can use the dash, a/c and.chassis harness from that car with irs. I think I figured out how to use the rear, it's going to involve deleting the rear seats entirely, then using that space to mount c5 fuel tanks.
06-27-2011, 07:41 AM
#136
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
I don't have any good pics of the rear of the "subframe". The stock vette frame rails are pretty tall, so I sectioned them down to match up with the 2X4 rail I put in the car at the rockers. Everything is attached to the 2X4 rail or the vette rail (so an actual frame rail in the car).
As for the front I just mated the vette sub to the front core support at the stock "rail" location and welded it all solid.
You can see some of this in pictures previously posted.
As for the front I just mated the vette sub to the front core support at the stock "rail" location and welded it all solid.
You can see some of this in pictures previously posted.
07-01-2011, 03:21 PM
#138
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07-01-2011, 03:22 PM
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Vette subframe?. . .oh yeah, you just line up slot A with hole B and it all bolts in!!
Just giving you hell, mate.
Here's actually what you do:
1-grab a plasma cutter
2-cut away damn near everything from the front of the third gen (wheel wells, firewall, mostly all of it)
3-cut a c5 Z06 in half
4-place front of C5 under Camaro centering front wheels in the wheel wells
5-weld what you can, make brackets/mounts/spacers for the rest and weld it all in
Sorry, but there's no "handbook" for how to do this. I didn't know how I was going to get it in there when I started. I just cut a little and measure a lot. If somethign didn't work, cut it out and start over.
Just giving you hell, mate.
Here's actually what you do:
1-grab a plasma cutter
2-cut away damn near everything from the front of the third gen (wheel wells, firewall, mostly all of it)
3-cut a c5 Z06 in half
4-place front of C5 under Camaro centering front wheels in the wheel wells
5-weld what you can, make brackets/mounts/spacers for the rest and weld it all in
Sorry, but there's no "handbook" for how to do this. I didn't know how I was going to get it in there when I started. I just cut a little and measure a lot. If somethign didn't work, cut it out and start over.
07-01-2011, 04:10 PM
#140
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Subscribed. This is gonna be a beast of a DD, and your fabrication and bravery seems exceptional.lol
07-03-2011, 10:08 PM
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
The weight loss is unsprung weight. Overall weight went up slightly, the stock 10 bolt in my 4th gen is about 171 lbs. Rear corner weight before was around 800 lbs, it's more than that now. I'll try and get you the exact number.
07-04-2011, 07:09 AM
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
07-05-2011, 06:06 PM
#148
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Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
Why the torque arm and not a 3 link?
Basically, as a daily driver, I want the use of the rear seats. They'll be storage only, but it just seemed easier (I know, easy should not be of concern).
To do the 3 link right I'd have to run the third link in between the rear seats a bit, which would raise the trans tunnel between the seats. As I'm not building this to be a track car I'm willing to sacrifice on suspension geometry to gain interior room.
Basically, as a daily driver, I want the use of the rear seats. They'll be storage only, but it just seemed easier (I know, easy should not be of concern).
To do the 3 link right I'd have to run the third link in between the rear seats a bit, which would raise the trans tunnel between the seats. As I'm not building this to be a track car I'm willing to sacrifice on suspension geometry to gain interior room.
07-08-2011, 09:31 PM
#149
Re: a third gen, a Z06, and a long winter
haha wow... this is pretty cool... I like the way you build... thats how i build. Im just not as crazy as you are.
This makes my 521 big block ford, ford C6 trans and ford 8.8 swap into my 87 bird look dismal... lol.
This makes my 521 big block ford, ford C6 trans and ford 8.8 swap into my 87 bird look dismal... lol.
