OK, I thought I would try to get people's opinions on this.

First of all, the confusion part: Every thirdgen Firebird is a Firebird, regardless of if it's a Firebird S/E, Firebird Formula, Firebird Trans Am, Firebird Trans Am GTA, Firebird Formula Firehawk, or a plain Firebird. Other generations include their own specific models like Firebird Trans Am Special Edition, Firebird Esprit, Firebird Trans Am GT, Firebird Trans Am SD455, etc. In the firstgen they were even refered to by engine size, like Firebird 400, Firebird 326, etc. I know I'm forgetting some. I also know it sounds silly to have to say those full names, but that's what they are, technically. Anyway, enthusiasts like us tend to shorten the name down, especially with Trans Am and GTA, simply because it's easier to refer to your car without using 5 or 6 words!

This is cool and we all understand it among ourselves, but here's where the fragmentation begins: to an outside person, a Firebird and a Trans Am (for example) are indistinguishable, i.e. "what's the difference?" "are they two different cars?" "is that a Camaro?" (Let's not even go there!). This has caused considerable fragmentation in the way non-enthusiasts refer to the cars or when they try to understand the hierarchy, etc. Just for one example, a well-known used car website is www.autotrader.com. Under their Pontiac listing, They have all the different Pontiac models like 6000, Bonneville, Aztek, Grand Am, etc. Then they have THREE Firebird listings: Firebird, Firebird Formula, and Trans Am at the bottom by itself! What's up with this? It really pisses me off. Am I the only one? I think all the Pontiac f-bodies should be listed together under Firebird, because that's what they all are. And you would only have to do one search instead of three. Plus they don't do this for any other manufacturer. Can you imagine if they said "Taurus, Mach-1, Escort, Probe, Mustang, Aerostar, GL, XLT, GT". What if they said "Camaro, Caprice, Beretta, Z28, LT, Cavalier, Z71, SS, Silverado". See what I mean? They would get bombarded. The submodels don't have any business being listed separately. They just confuse people not familiar with our cars and maybe even cause them to lose interest. That website is just one example. This thing is way out of control all over the place, even big boys like www.ebaymotors.com but many other places too.

I'll close by saying I don't expect any of them to fix it, but it sure does get on my nerves and is very counterproductive, counterintuitive.

GT

 

That pisses me off a lot too.Usually when they list three firebird models they're usually lacking the info on other firebird models.But still i don't blame them much because i don't recall any other famous car with a twin like Camaro.Everything is almost the same.That also confuses people.American muscle cars have long history also and you really need good knowledge to seperate them usually and in todays automobile industry there are not that much models.How much knowledge you need to seperate Golf from Golf GTI.Not much really.Actually when i think about it it's maybe better this way.The information on our cars are not available everywhere, that makes it harder to hear about them all the time.If you really need to learn about those cars you need to put some effort into it.You need to read the boards like this for hours with blood shot eyes to get some more information on your car.Then you have to evaluate that information to see if it's true or not, it goes on and on.That makes me feel like F-bodies are our sacred thing.

 

Plus there are not much kiddies around with camaro and trans-am's and horsepowers are not flying all over the place.If you happen to visit one of those sites you'll see honda's with 600-700 hp's or breaking the sound berriers every2 days.And i don't think those guys knows what they're talking about.Their information is available everywhere and look at how they use that information.There's not much ppl around with knowledge and wisdom like thirdgens either.

 

I don't see whats worth getting all worked up over, but on a side note, "Firebird" is used to describe all of the Pontiac "F" Platform in Service Information.

 

Actually I get upset at this too....

What's worse is when I'm discussing the F-platform with a friend, and I point out a "Firebird" in a parking lot.

"That's not a Firebird, it's a Trans Am!"

"...it's still a Firebird..."

"No... I mean they're similar...but they're two different things!"

"... Is a Z28 a Camaro?"

"Yes"

"I rest my case."

 

Excellent case my friend...HERE HERE!! Bravo!


I hate it when I go to the gas station and fill up and the dude behind the counter goes..."you have 10 in the camaro?...." Arrgh!!!!!

or

"what year is your camaro?" AAAUUUGGHHHH!!!!

 

If you think the stranger mistaking your car for a Camaro is bad, what if your girlfriend did that. My ex-girlfriend was always confusing the two, Firebird and Camaro. Then she got into an arguement with me saying that F-Body's had dual exhaust, to which I calmly replied, "No honey, they have dual outlets, but not dual exhaust, unless they have been modified." And she is like, "NO, DUAL EXHAUST STOCK!!!"


Can't argue with the people that don't know about something, you will never win. Can't expect someone who doesn't know a thing about a specific line of cars to be able to distinguish between two different, but similar ones. It makes us all mad, but it will never change.

 

I dont see the point in getting worked up over it either. It makes each model seem more special to be listed seperately. And the reason why trade publications and web sites list each variation specifically, is because of the difference in value, since buying and selling is there primary concern.

 

One gift I got for Christmas was a Camaro calendar! I found it amusing, because it came from someone who knows I'm into Firebirds not Camaros, and we talk about it pretty often, yet she still made the mistake

Anyway about the naming.. if you went to someone and said "hey, I have an XL." they'd be like "excuse me, but what's an XL? that could be 50 different cars." Granted, names like GTA, Trans Am, etc. are unique and one-of-a-kind names, but they're still submodels. I don't see any reason why a submodel should have its own listing when all other models and their submodels are listed as one. Just one of those things I'd fix in a perfect world, I guess.

GT

 

When i had my Camaro i got stopped by a cop.She was calling my Camaro Trans-Am all the time.Even cops confuses them i guess.

 

Were are special. No other automobile has such model distinction. When I tell people I drive a F-150, they don't care if it's a XL XLT Lariat or Lightning. They just accept that its an F-150. With the TA it's different. Some call it Firebird some call it Trans-AM. I called it a Firebird once around a friend of mine and he said "I thought it was a Trans-AM". I told him "yes it is a Trans-AM." He said "Then why did you call it a Firebird." I said "because they are from the same family. They are the same thing. The difference is only the options it came with." Then came the "It's not the same thing" argument. Which gets old. However it just sort of goes with the territory of owning a vehicle with such history behind it.

 

W O R L D W I D E ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
REALLY IM NOT KIDDING
Im from chile and i have the same ****** problem ¡¡¡¡
oh no ..its a ta ..whats the dif ?....whats the dif tween a ta and a camaro ,,,ahhh and tween a camaro and a firebird ..ahhh
SHUT UP ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
i have a friend that drive me crazy all the time with those questions
who is guilty for that ?????
THE TRANS AM....
it became so popular that people thinks of him as other model
when i got into cars ,i used to think second gens were T/As
then...3rdgens were Firebirds....and when i saw a 1989 TTA
scale model i thought ....ohh im wrong...and i even thought that KITT was a FIREBIRD FORMULA.
but 3rd gen T/As??? I DIDNT KNOW ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
THEN IN 1996 I GOT INTERNET AND ,,,HERE WE ARE ¡

 

People always call my cars Trans Ams. Then I have to explain that leather and ground effects are not my style and cost extra to boot. They are Formulas, dammit!

 

Yeah... and what really sucks is that RPO Z28 was the package that was offered on the Camaro so that it could meet the production requirements to run in SCCA's Trans Am series..... AFAIK no Pontiac ever ran in it, they just paid to use the name. Just goes to show what marketing and publicity will do for you.

Kind of like the IROC model; Chevy hasn't had the rights to that name now for almost 15 years, but you say the name "IROC" with reference to a car, everybody knows which car you're talking about, and it isn't the Firebirds they've been running the last couple of years.

 

Try the SCCA Trans Am Series opener at Road Atlanta May 23, 1982. 7 1982 Firebirds entered. 1st time since 1972. Pontiac took 4 of the top 10 positions, beating all 6 Porsche Turbo 924's and 2 factory Mustangs. A Mecham Racing Trans Am won SCCA Trans Am championship in '82.

 

Pontiac enthusiast did indeed run Firebirds in the Trans-Am series when the first generation F-Bodies were introduced.

The Pontiac folks tried running a Pontiac-engine based version at 303 cubic inches (3-oh-3). The rules required no more than 5-litre (305 cubic inches) although I believe that rule was relaxed to allow the 318 MoPars.

That engine combo didn't work out so well and then they started claiming that "Canadian" Firebirds were available with the Chevy 302 in order to be able to race competively.

I can't remember the exact specs on the bastardized 303 Pontiac engine but it was never released to the general public, as far as I can remember.

jms

 

Actually it wasn't

Mopar placed poorly in the TA series due to the fact that they couldn't develop a decent powerplant. However, the 340 six pack found on the Challenger TA and AAR 'Cudas were a hit on the street!

 

Its partly Pontiac's doing. They generally called the car the Pontiac Trans Am, not Pontiac Firebird Trans Am, in ads and such. I guess it was too much of a mouthful

 

Remember the Mustang GTA

Don

 

When I referred to Pontiacs running it, I meant before they named the car for it. I'm well aware they've run it since, I go to the races once in a while.

 

Also the 1970 Dodge Challenger Trans Am complete with "T/A" decals. Hey don't forget the 1987 Renault GTA but that Trans Am and those GTAs are relatively unheard of compared to our cars

Ferrari's GTO and 288 GTO too, but they came up with that first.

 

 

Here's a picture of that car. It was up for sale recently.. I didn't get to see what happened with it

 

when i bought my 87 TA, the seller almost got mad at me for calling it a firebird instead of trans am. he said "when you go to register it, you will see." okay buddy, whatever.

i usually say trans am, mostly to denote its 8 cyl- just in case the audience might know about them

one time i saw a trans sport van on ebay listed under trans am. hah.