I've read in a variety of places (including some forums on this site) that LB9s with the mm5 rpo came with a more aggressive cam. Does any one know what the specifics of this was? eg. lift, duration, etc. And what was the difference between the T-5 cam and the alternative?
Thanks

 

In the left margin of the home page, there's a section called "Technical Articles." There's a lot of great information there, including one article, entitled "Camshafts," that lists the specs for the stock cams and the years they were used, as well as several popular aftermarket cams.

 

IIRC the lb9 got the more aggressive cam only if g92 was ordered with the t-5, that also got you a bw rear end with 3.42's.

 

Thanks guys, I feel like such a dumbass. As only such a person would neglect to peruse the entire tech data page for that kindof info.
I have GM3 (BW 3.45) Does this mean no special cam? Or is the G92 only an issue with 90-92?

 

You've got the good combo, Cpt. The '88/'89 cam was one of the best stock cams available in thirdgens, other than the Firehawk cam.

And 3.45 is the correct ratio for the Borg-Warner 9-bolt rearend, not 3.42. Yes, G92 would've been the option code for that rearend if that option had been ordered separately. But being a GTA, I doubt you've actually got G92 listed in your RPOs because that ratio would've been standard with your engine/tranny/GTA combination... at least, that's how it was in 1987.

 

not true. All 87-90 5 speeds had the good cam. Doesn't matter what rearend you had.

91-92 had to have the 3.42s to get the good cam. Other wise the 305s were 205/210hp--same as the 305 auto

 

IIRC the lb9 got the more aggressive cam only if g92 was ordered with the t-5, that also got you a bw rear end with 3.42's.

This is only true for 1989 - 1992. All 5-speed LB9s and L98s 1987 and 1988 got the "good" cam.

Technically speaking the Borg-Warner came with 2.77s, 3.27s or 3.45s, depending on engine/transmission. The LB9/5-speed combo with G92 got the 3.45 BW axle assembly until it was discontinued in 1989.

 

THis should help:

Scroll down \/

1987 Cam Data

<TABLE BORDER=1 WIDTH=100% CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=3>
<TR>
<td rowspan="2" bgcolor="#FFFF00" align="center" valign="middle">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><b>Motor</b></td>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Trans</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">GM Part #</TH>
<TH COLSPAN=2 BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Lift</p>
</TH>
<TH COLSPAN=2 BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Duration</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Lobe</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Separation</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Rocker</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Arm Ratio</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Horse Power</p>
</TH>
</TR>
<TR>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Int.</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Exh.</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Int.</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 valign=middle style="background-color: #FFFF00">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Exh.</TH>
</TR>
<tr>
<TD>305 LG4</TD><TD align="center"> M5, AT</TD><TD align="center">10088155</TD><TD align="center">.350</TD><TD align="center">.384</TD><TD align="center">179</TD><TD align="center">194</TD><TD align="center">109.0 </TD><TD align="center">(108/-112)</TD>
<TD align="center">155</TD>
</tr>
<TR>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC">305 LG4 (Export NM5 Canada )</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC"> ?</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">14088841</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">&nbsp;</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">&nbsp;</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">&nbsp;</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">&nbsp;</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">&nbsp; </TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">&nbsp;</TD>
<TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">&nbsp;</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>305 LB9</TD><TD align="center"> AT&nbsp;</TD><TD align="center">10088155</TD><TD align="center">.350</TD><TD align="center">.384</TD><TD align="center">179</TD><TD align="center">194</TD><TD align="center">109.0 </TD><TD align="center">(108/-112)</TD>
<TD align="center">165</TD>
</TR>
<tr>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC">305 LB9</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">M5</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">14093643</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">.404</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">.415</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">202</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">207</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">114.5</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC"> (115/-114)</TD>
<TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC"> 205</TD>
</tr>
<tr>
<TD>305 LB9 (Export NM8)</TD><TD align="center">A4</TD><TD align="center">14093643</TD><TD align="center">.404</TD><TD align="center">.415</TD><TD align="center">202</TD><TD align="center">207</TD><TD align="center">114.5</TD><TD align="center"> (115/-114)</TD>
<TD align="center"> 205</TD>
</tr>
<TR>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC"> 350 B2L (L98)</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">AT</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">14093643</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">.404</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">.415</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">202</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">207</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">114.5</TD><TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC"> (115/-114)</TD>
<TD align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC"> 210</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

<PRE style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">&nbsp;</PRE>

<PRE style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">

1988 & 1989
<TABLE BORDER=1 WIDTH=598 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=3>
<TR>
<TH bgcolor=#FFFFFF VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="138">
&nbsp;
</TH>
<TH COLSPAN=2 bgcolor=#FFFFFF VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="138">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">&nbsp;</p>
</TH>
<TH COLSPAN=2 BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="78">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Lift</p>
</TH>
<TH COLSPAN=2 BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="75">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Duration</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="84">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Lobe</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="78">
Rocker
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="79">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">&nbsp;</p>
</TH>
</TR>
<TR>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="83">
Motor
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="83">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Trans
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="63">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">GM&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Part Number</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="34">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Int.</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="36">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Exh.</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="31">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Int.</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="36">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Exh.</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="84">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Separation</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="78">
Arm Ratio
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#C0C0C0 VALIGN=BOTTOM style="background-color: #FFFF00" width="79">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Horse</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">&nbsp;Power</p>
</TH>
</TR>
<tr>
<TD width="83">
305 LO3
</TD>
<TD width="83" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">A4/M5</p>
</TD><TD width="63">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">10088155</p>
</TD><TD width="34">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.350</p>
</TD><TD width="36">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.384</p>
</TD><TD width="31">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">179</p>
</TD><TD width="36">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">194</p>
</TD><TD width="84" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">109.0</p>
</TD><TD width="78" align="center">
(108/-112)
</TD>
<TD width="79" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font size="3">170</font></p>
</TD>
</tr>
<tr>
<TD width="83" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
305 LB9&nbsp;
</TD>
<TD width="83" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">A4&nbsp;</p>
</TD><TD width="63" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">10088155</p>
</TD><TD width="34" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.350</p>
</TD><TD width="36" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.384</p>
</TD><TD width="31" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">179</p>
</TD><TD width="36" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">194</p>
</TD><TD width="84" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">109.0</p>
</TD><TD width="78" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
(108/-112)
</TD>
<TD width="79" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font size="3">190</font></p>
</TD>
</tr>
<tr>
<TD width="83">
305 LB9
</TD>
<TD width="83" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">M5&nbsp;</p>
</TD><TD width="63">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">10066049</p>
</TD><TD width="34">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.415</p>
</TD><TD width="36">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.430</p>
</TD><TD width="31">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">207</p>
</TD><TD width="36">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">213</p>
</TD><TD width="84" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">117.0</p>
</TD><TD width="78" align="center">
(116/-118)
</TD>
<TD width="79" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> <font size="3">215</font></p>
</TD>
</tr>
<TR>
<TD width="83" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
350 L98&nbsp;
</TD>
<TD width="83" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">A4&nbsp;</p>
</TD><TD width="63" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">10066049</p>
</TD><TD width="34" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.415</p>
</TD><TD width="36" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.430</p>
</TD><TD width="31" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">207</p>
</TD><TD width="36" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">213</p>
</TD><TD width="84" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">117.0</p>
</TD><TD width="78" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
(116/-118)
</TD>
<TD width="79" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"><font size="3">225</font></p>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

<P style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">&nbsp;</P>

<P style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">

1990-1992
<TABLE BORDER=1 WIDTH=564 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=3>
<tr>
<TD width="51" rowspan="2" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Motor
</TD>
<TD width="69" align="center" rowspan="2" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Trans
</TD><TD width="64" rowspan="2" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">GM&nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Part #</p>
</TD><TD width="65" colspan="2" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Lift
</TD><TD width="61" colspan="2" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Duration
</TD><TD width="67" rowspan="2" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Lobe</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Separation
</TD><TD width="66" rowspan="2" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
Rocker</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
Arm Ratio
</TD>
</tr>
<tr>
<TD width="28" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Int.
</TD><TD width="29" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Exh.
</TD><TD width="24" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Int.
</TD><TD width="29" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFF00">
Exh.
</TD>
</tr>
<tr>
<TD width="51">
305 LO3
</TD>
<TD width="69" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">A4/M5</p>
</TD><TD width="64">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">10088155*</p>
</TD><TD width="28">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.350</p>
</TD><TD width="29">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.384</p>
</TD><TD width="24">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">179</p>
</TD><TD width="29">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">194</p>
</TD><TD width="67" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">109.0</p>
</TD><TD width="66" align="center">
(108/-112)
</TD>
</tr>
<tr>
<TD width="51" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
305 LB9
</TD>
<TD width="69" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">M5&nbsp;&amp; A4</p>
</TD><TD width="64" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">10111773*</p>
</TD><TD width="28" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.413</p>
</TD><TD width="29" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.428</p>
</TD><TD width="24" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">202</p>
</TD><TD width="29" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">207</p>
</TD><TD width="67" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">114.5</p>
</TD><TD width="66" align="center" bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
(116/-116)
</TD>
</tr>
<TR>
<TD width="51">
350 L98&nbsp;
</TD>
<TD width="69" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">A4&nbsp;</p>
</TD><TD width="64">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">10111773*</p>
</TD><TD width="28">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.413</p>
</TD><TD width="29">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">.428</p>
</TD><TD width="24">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">202</p>
</TD><TD width="29">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">207</p>
</TD><TD width="67" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">114.5</p>
</TD><TD width="66" align="center">
(116/-116)
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

<P style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">*roller cams

 

Thanks for jogging my memory okfoz!

The difference in ratings between the 230hp 5 speed TPI and the 210hp was the dual cat exhuast---not the cam like I had said. I knew better

 

As a matter of History, and a little off topic, it appears as though in 1989 only The Formula 350 got the Dual cats in the Firebird lineup. It does not appear to be an option on the T/A or GTA...

John

 

Not necessarily true.... I've seen a 89 GTA with my own eyes, with the dual cats.... a 305 5-speed car with 3.45s also. Pretty much the maxed out drivetrain for that year.

 

I have an 89 GTA with the dual cats, came that way.

 

My 89 formula lb9 also has the dual cats. I see I was also mistaken earlier, sorry about that...

 

Ok, maybe I should clarify my statement, as I read it now its confusing and not what I meant to state...

In 1989, for L98 Cars, only the Formula came with the Dual Cats in the Firebird lineup. the Dual cats for the LB9 could have had the option.

All of the information from GM I have points in that direction.

Sorry for the confusion.

John

 

Mine is a L98.

 

THat is very interesting. The lit clearly states that the Formula 350 was to get an extra 10 HP over the GTA & T/A 350s.

Specifically it states this in the brochures, and more importantly in a press Media kit released to dealers for the 1989 cars that has all of the data in it.

THis has a info on each of the cars for 89, what was new in 89, and a lot of technical information, Engine HP graphs including the TTA.

Look Here: 4.3MB http://www.usol.com/~okfoz/89/Pontia...rdMediaKit.pdf

John

 

Pretty hard to argue with a car that's sitting in front of you. Especially if it was some sort of change made to the product lineup in mid-year, after the brochure was printed. Happens alot in every consumer industry.... real world vs pre-release marketing world.

 

I am not arguing that it does not exist, I just find it interesting is all...

I am just pleading my case and showing the information I have. I am also trying to show that I am not an idiot that just pulls crap out of his butt and tries to pass it off as gospel.

Thats all... I know there are usually minor changes made during the year, I was not aware that this was one of them.

John

 

Do you have the TTA brochure? It says its available in there, at least in the copy I have.

 

Yup your correct, it does state it in there, I did not remember that.

It must have been a mid year change. If you read on in the Formula and Firebird section on the next page, the wording of the 350 engine and an "extra 10 HP for Daddy", does indicate that at one point even some of those brochures had it too...

But as you pointed out, and from the existance of your car I guess enough people probably complained and they offered it on the GTA mid run.

John

 

1989 GTA production numbers...


GM3 -- Rear Axle Ratio (3.45) -- 366
GW6 -- Rear Axle Ratio (3.27) -- 8,104
LC2 -- Engine, 3.8L V6 Turbocharged -- 1,550
LB9 -- Engine, 5.0L V8 TPI -- 366
L98 -- Engine, 5.7L V8 TPI -- 6,554
N10 -- Exhaust System, Dual -- 3,068
Y84 -- GTA Option Package -- 8,470